Wut.
I’ve tested extensively and it seems that a micro-dash-cancel allows it to still connect midscreen. Like, you don’t even really see the dash start to come out before you cancel. Tested against walking backwards, dashing backwards, and fast pokes. Still need to test against certain moves, like Scorpion’s teleport, various parries, etc.
Again, there’s not really even a point in discussing “outdamages over the course of a match” because it’s a nonsense term. If I win the match, I outdamaged you, and I win way more matches with Jade than I lose. Those characters average around 25%-30% with their kombos and punishes, yes, but they don’t have Jade’s insane zoning or space control. None of those characters can zone Jade, so they’re going to be eating constant chip and hits from glaives. And every time they end with negative frames, Jade gets her b343 mix and staggers.
31% midscreen for a bar is average, not significant, but thats beside the point. Regardless of whether or not you in your matches can land the move, there is a reason you don't see it being consistently landed in high level play. What's to hit confirm about the string? F2 and F21 are both punishable on block and F2 can be flawless blocked on reaction so that F21 or any of her other unsafe specials don't come out and ur left in punish city. It's also too slow to be considered an "excellent" whiff punisher.
This analysis and breakdown of damage potential and mixups can be done with any character in the cast. You can go down the rabbit hole and deeply explore every character in the same way you did with Jade. Cassie, Jax, and Johnny can do 30%+ into restands, Subzero has resets and nice KBs, Liu hits hard, Noob hits hard, Jacqui hits hard, Erron hits hard into setups, Cetrion does decent damage into nice setups for her zone. If you are willing to put aside raw data and examine tactics, then you need to do the same for the rest of the cast for a fair comparisonn. When you do, you'll still find that she falls short in the damage department compared to most. Saying otherwise, at this point, is just being disingenuous.
I don't think were even talking about the same character... Jade does not out damage Kitana, kabal, cassie, etc.... She only gets 18% for 1 bar, which is pretty bad. Your trying to justify it by saying she gets a mixup afterwards, her B3 string is no where as near good as liu kang's staggers to justify having a free mixup instead of more damage. If you go for a B3 after Ex razor rang they can just jump and punish, or if you go for a throw they can neutral duck upper cut. Your opponent can blow you up way harder than the 18% you could get. And saying you land the F21 consistently shows your playing opponents without fingers lol. That shiit doesn't land raw at all at the highest levels unless you get lucky, I can count in one hand how many times a raw F21 landed in a tournament.
Using raiden as a dummy here and he can just walk backwards. Maybe character specific?
Could be, I can’t even remember who all I’ve tested it against. I do in in real matches against Lao, Kabal, Scarlet, and Shang consistently, though that could be due to the opponent not knowing how to avoid it. Are you sure the dash is coming out?
yes because the b3 is connecting if I don't move. I have it up against skarlet now as well. So here is what I think is happening. If you do this thing tight enough to beat a d1 poke, the opponent can walk back (even skarlet I have it up right now)
F21. Stahp.
Johnny doesnt break 30 % midscreen, even less so if he wants to restand midscreen. Jax needs to to spend both bars to just get 30 % in GB. Jax does not break 30% without a Krushing Blow. If he wants to do a restand corner combo without KB its between 23-25% depending on execution. You need to consider ressources spent. Johnny can deal upwards of 38 % from both bars spend sacrificing restand and thus making him unable to combo for a while. Jade gets the same meterless corner damage as Jax does - and he's a rushdown. You make it sound like it's stuff that they can just do over and over again. Jax has some of the worst damage compared to ressources spent in GB
And here's your problem. You are ALWAYS comparing Jade to those near-broken characters that need a fix. My guess is you won't be happy until she is broken enough to carry her players. Then you will probably complain about the tier whore banGwaggoning players picking up Jade while you will argue that you were maining her when "she was trash-tier". Seen that before... The mid tiers of this game are fine. Nerf the broken tier, buff the low tier, tweak some little things in the middle. And for the time being, just enjoy the game as it is.
You need to stop blaming the character. Thats the first step.
You do realize when jade gets hit with a 45% combo the match goes completely downhill from here, she really needs a life lead to play lame and zone, she has no legit comeback capabilities when she's that far down the hole. She doesn't do "consistent overall damage" when fighting characters that can reliably get around her zoning, she can't trade comfortably for example with noob saibot without the fear of eating a 35% teleport combo. D'vorah and Shao Kahn do not make their F2 or F1 work, we never see these characters in tournaments lol. F2 sucks anyway, its so risky to use especially since the opponent can jump over it, which is incredibly stupid considering you can see the pole clip their leg 100% of the time. Like I said, F2 is almost never useful against someone who knows what their doing. Just go back to playing randoms online and hit them with that F2, you've contributed almost nothing to this discussion other than saying "F2 is actually good" when its clearly not.
He doesnt say f2 is good tho just that its not useless. Could be that i missed something so sorry if i missed reading that.
Or you could make all sorts of baseless assumptions, that works too.
You fought me, you know I don't "blame" the character. It's the player winning or losing not the character. When I talk about Jade I compare her to the standard of the game, and to the current tournament-dominant standard characters, she's not viable.
I've said this countless times, yes.
You block anything except for meterburned glaive from Jade and it's your turn. She doesn't have anything that makes her "more defensive" than Geras who can d1 out of things that not many other characters can, and he has the comeback factor of a lifetime.
You're comparing her, talking about characters that literally nobody who's interested in winning has played in any majors so far. And with good reason.
Am i telling what i want to change about jade? I even agreed that her f21 isnt good. Besides i post where the hell i want lol
True, you weren't telling me that. Instead you were belittling me telling me that I'm blaming the character.
Neither does Jade without F21 or KBs and a bar. Johnny does get more damage midscreen into setups, compared to Jade's 18% 1 bar reset, and even moreso in the corner.
Good point, but I never specified resources in my post. Still, I've considered it. Jax has more resources to spend for higher dmg and when he's out of those resources he does comparable dmg to Jade except he has access to better mix-up tools (9fr mid stagger, overhead-low, cmd grab in one variation) with slightly more dmg into setups. Overall, Jax still nets more dmg than Jade.
"Cassie, Jax, and Johnny can do 30%+ into restands" This is the only part of my entire post where I mentioned Johnny or Jax. It's not "false information" if the statement is factual. I was just pointing out that those chars can do a thing that Jade can't, resources or not. It's not that deep. Only point was showing examples of chars that are above Jade in terms of dmg potential and setups which was the direction of the convo if you weren't following the whole convo. Not to upplay Johnny or Jax or spread misinformation.
As a Jaded main, the damage is crippling. She doesn't need a good punisher or high damage, but she should atleast have passable dmg. 18% Is just not passable.
IMA DOWNPLAY JADE TILL I DIE
My apoligies
I dont disagree with Jaded struggling. But her discussing Emerald Defender we need take into consideration that her keep away game and space control nets her a lot of damage on the opponent trying to approach. But I'm not a fan of Zoners dishing out tons of damage. Johnny's damage is already on the average side of things midscreen and becomes good in the corner. Jax damage output is kinda underwhelming excluding Hunker Down's momentum with heat. I'm just saying that if we throw 30 % dmg combos at Jade all of the sudden - she's gonna be pretty busted. The main reason Sonya is such a piece of shit is the fact that she deals top 3 damage while having top 3 zoning.
