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Everything wrong with Jade

Madog32

PSN: ImaGiveItToUBaby
I don’t really count online randoms, so I’ll only address the matchups I’ve played in long sets against TYM members. I think she loses to Lao but beats Kotal, Shang, Kabal, and possibly Skarlet.
I respect your opinion and appreciate your positivity. But I have to disagree with your thoughts on the shang matchup. This has to be one of the hardest matchups for her in the game right now. I've only run this matchup as jaded, but I think even ED gets mopped by shang
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
I respect your opinion and appreciate your positivity. But I have to disagree with your thoughts on the shang matchup. This has to be one of the hardest matchups for her in the game right now. I've only run this matchup as jaded, but I think even ED gets mopped by shang
I don’t know the variation names, but that’s the one with the cancels, correct? I think that variation is straight garbage. Try the other variation against him. You just have to worry about corpse drop.
 

Afumba

Noob
No, I’ve listened to and addressed every objection that’s been brought up. If I’ve missed any, please let me know. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean I don’t understand your point. In any case, I’ve made the same points repeatedly, and am having to defend those points over and over, which is exhausting. If you don’t like the character then play Geras and quit whining. But I’m going to continue to enjoy her and to win games with her. If all you downplayers see me as a fool for my opinions, then I sincerely see that as a win. And when are we playing a set so you can body me and my shitty character?
Its more like how you sound like than what you are saying, well with some exceptions. Several of your statements are indirect insults to the people who made certain comments. You also took things out of context to underline your point like the Shang corpse vs F2 reference. Further you are doing the same thing as what you accuse people of, attacking them for having a different oppinion. At the end everyone just states their oppinion and we are here to discuss things so how is assuming that you are the only one who labs/understands her and throwing it in peoples faces better than people attacking you by sayin you dont know what you are talking about?

Also you seem confused with some points you made. You keep telling people to go play Geras etc if they want high numbers or big damage but i cant remember anyone asking for that. Most people that asked for damage are talking about 2-3% more punish damage cuz 14/18% is not good or normal punish damage. I dont see why people suggesting that is so much of a problem that you have to exaggerate with a comment about it like 3times. Its not an unreasonable request given that a character like Cetrion has nice staggers, better zoning, cant be cornered, she also demolishes some characters and has better punish damage. For Shang you can make a similar argument. Saying people have to consider her whole damage is also a two edged sword as you have to do it for other characters as well. For every other zoner, everyone with a restand etc you can make a similar argument only difference is most dish out more damage which means they need less opportunities to kill you and glaives are not as good a trade off for that as you make it out to be.

Since i mentioned Shang i will go back to your Corpse vs F2 remark. Dont know who your were talking to but i dont like you taking stuff out of context and throwing it in peoples face to make a point. Its silly to take a comment about a 28f projectile and one about a 28f normal and make it look like they are the same. While not overpowered Shangs Corpse hitbox is a bit too generous in my oppinion and in the Jade MU the corpse can be oppressive. So a Jade player stating that Corpse is a bit too strong while also stating that F2 isnt good is a valid oppinion cuz corpse can be oppressive and F2 is situational and super risky. Its definitely more valid than your comment were you throw it in peoples faces or the one about you hiting F21 all the time.

You should also stop with the downplayer stuff. Most people here think she is a solid character but that doesnt mean people cant ask for tweaks to make her better. There are at least as many (or even more) people uplaying Jade as some insane character just because she demolishes some characters or tries to lame out. She being annoying to fight against is also a reason why people make her out stronger than she is. It takes time and patients at times so she must be too strong cuz i cant just walk up and do my thing.

Adding comments about character that have it worse is also irrelevant. I dont care for example what Dvorahs struggles are (well i do cuz i like Dvorah but i dont when discussing another character). Character have it worse, sad for them. They should be adjusted, still doesnt mean everything is great or shouldnt be tweaked just cuz some character have it worse.

So to sum it up, Jade is really solid. Does she need some changes to be playable, no. Is it reasonable to ask for some tweaks, yes. You think she is perfect = i am happy for you. Glad they managed to make the character at least perfect for someone. (Oh and with perfect i dont mean OP/top tier etcetc just as good and fun as she can be without being overpowered or struggling too much)

And so you dont throw it in my face... i love playing Jade and i keep playing her no matter what. I still think she could use a few tweaks. Its also not about winning, i win enough with her. But it is frustrating having to outplay your opponent twice as much as they have to dispite of airrang. Dont have that kind of frustration while winning with Shang or Cassie. Even Skarlet feels better in this regard.
 

Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
lol, I still play the game and think Jade needs help.

No hostility to anyone's points, it's just a disagreement. I don't see her tools as being strong enough to justify her lack of damage.

I think her pokes are over rated. B2 is a fantastic whiff punisher sure, but it's unsafe on block, can only be canceled into unsafe things, and gets beat by a surprising number of other long range pokes. D4 is great. It's also a D4. You won't be winning matches off it. F2 is her best source of damage, but it's slow and easy to blow up (not to mention the hitbox issues). Other buttons like her B1 are a joke. It's not fast, it doesn't have range, and again it leads to nothing safe.

D2 is amazing and you'll hear no complaints there. Credit to the character where it's due.

Her zoning is strong vs land locked characters. Guys like Baraka are going to have a hard time. But, a huge percentage of the characters in this game have a way to completely ignore or nullify zoning. Anyone with a TP attack can make her bleed for the attempt, and it IS worse for Jade than other zoning characters because A) the start up and speed of her projectiles are slower than most other characters, and B) because she gives up so much else for them. Take away Barakas sparks or Lui Kang's fireballs and they still have other strong tools and high damage. Take away Jade's and she's gutted.

There are also tons of things that beat glow so even in matches where you feel you should be able to leverage her zoning, it's not as strong as you think. Make space and activate glow against Sonya, you toss a glaive, she calls down an air drop. You get splatted to the ground while she recovers from her hit and dashes in, back to playing her game. It's just not that impressive compared to other tools.

Air glaive is legitimately great! But I'd like to be able to do more than that!

B343 staggers are useful, and the pressure from them and standing glaives is good, but I wouldn't say great. Lets look at other pressure characters in the game. Lui Kang is even more smothering and can convert his easy pressure strings into large combos and KBs. Erron Black can stagger even better than Jade, and he gets to enforce 50/50s that lead big damage. A low damage restand that enforces a strike/throw mix isn't terrible, but I'm having a hard time thinking it's better than just reliably deleting 30-40% of an opponent's health off every touch.

I like Jade, I do better with Jade than other characters, I'm probably going to keep playing Jade (while maybe cultivating some other options). But I think it's important to gauge her abilities based on what the rest of the cast can do, and in my estimation, she comes up lacking.

I don't want to see her overpowered, I just want a little more damage and maybe a slightly faster OH to help with her bad matches and not feel like there is an insurmountable mountain to climb if the opponent gets a life lead.
 

xKMMx

Noob
If people uninstall the game because they don't like how bad one character is in there view its on them. However Jades d2 is 9f and hits the entire stage how come no one talks about that.
Because people only want to bitch about the fact that their character isn't the best.

I saw on here someone crying about her OH being -28. It hits from freakin mid screen and is damn near impossible to full combo punish if spaced correctly.
 

seanpon

Noob
I don’t know the variation names, but that’s the one with the cancels, correct? I think that variation is straight garbage. Try the other variation against him. You just have to worry about corpse drop.
LOL your telling us how to play our character and trying to "lab" her and making all these claims as if you know how to play Jade yet you don't even know the variation names. Your a fraud, you don't even play the same character in this discussion thread. Go troll somewhere else, i've made so many points about this character on this forum and so many others have repudiated you as well. Get out of this forum and stop being a fraud.
Because people only want to bitch about the fact that their character isn't the best.

I saw on here someone crying about her OH being -28. It hits from freakin mid screen and is damn near impossible to full combo punish if spaced correctly.
I guess i have to explain this again... sighhhh... there is no excuse to ever be hit by her OH, its so slow and you can see it a mile coming away. I can count how many times on one of my hands i've seen a raw F2 hit in tournaments. That move also doesn't hit jumping opponents a lot of the time for some reason even though you can clearly see it clip their feet. A lot of characters also do have pretty good advancing normals that can punish her F2 such as baraka with his F4 coming to mind. No one cares if Jade is the "best" or not, just give her a damage buff so she can fall in line with the rest of the cast. No other character has 18% Bnb's, actually play the character and understand her strengths/flaws before you comment
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
I will say, her flawless blocks are pretty abysmal. If you land a flawless block, your u2 punish shouldn’t whiff, period. That’s the entire fucking point of the move. The fact that it whiffs against point-blank moves like Scorpion’s f34 is straight-up nonsense.

Her u3 will connect, but then you’ve spent 1 defensive bar and an offensive bar to deal 9% and be only +6. NRS, smh.
 
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MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
I will say, her flawless blocks are pretty abysmal. If you land a flawless block, your u2 punish shouldn’t whiff, period. That’s the entire fucking point of the move. The fact that it whiffs against point-blank moves like Scorpion’s f34 is straight-up nonsense.

Her u2 will connect, but then you’ve spent 1 defensive bar and an offensive bar to deal 9% and be only +6. NRS, smh.
U3, at least on flawless block (maybe not on wakeup), should guarantee a strike/throw mixup.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
U3, at least on flawless block (maybe not on wakeup), should guarantee a strike/throw mixup.
It kind of does since it’s +6, and her b3 is 11 frames, though a throw requires a micro-dash. It’s still pretty pitiful for 2 bars, though.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
It kind of does since it’s +6, and her b3 is 11 frames, though a throw requires a micro-dash. It’s still pretty pitiful for 2 bars, though.
I meant in general. They shouldn't be able to jump (since that will screw with a lot of mids). Or it just shouldn't cost as much as u2s
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
It feels like she has up-hill battles because she does have to work harder. You won’t be using the same string over and over and dealing 45%. You’ll need to open up your opponent two or even three times for every one time they open you up. But she’s got the tools to do that. And when they tone down the broken characters in the first patch, it will be even easier.
Isn't this the classic hallmark of high tier vs low tier characters? Especially early on in a games life, this is exactly the defense you always hear of characters that eventually are widely accepted as low tier. The high tier characters have fairly obvious strong tools and the low tiers have to dig deep into their tool kits to get results. The high tiers can play their game without thinking and the low tiers quickly learn the match up and adapt because they have to. For awhile the low tiers can get by on "working harder" because the higher tier players aren't going to spend time and energy learning a match up thats uncommon(probably because the character is bad and no one good wants to play her) and because they use they can bully the character and often get good results without needing to know the match ups. But as the games life goes on the high tier character players have more time to learn match ups and develop their other tools instead of just "using the same string over and over" and at that working harder isn't enough.

Also that last sentence, where you just casually accepted that other characters are broken and will be patched and that's fine, is nonsense in the context of everything else you've said in this thread. You're so upset you have to threaten to leave the thread just because people are discussing Jade's shortcomings - most explicitly saying they're not asking for buffs - and you call those people downplayers, but it's just self evident that other characters are BROKEN and once those characters are nerfed everything will be fine. What kind of attitude is that?

No other character has 18% Bnb's
Bone Picker Baraka does, but that actually makes your point stronger because Bone Picker is very clearly intentionally designed to have low damage like that because he has such strong footsies and mix ups. But even then he ends up having better midscreen damage than Jade because of his crushing blows. He gets 1 35% punish every match with 122kb, and f44kb helps too. Jade is just sol when it comes to punishes and there's no clear reason for it
 
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karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
I legit don’t know how to respond to your post, or even how you expect me to respond.

I’m not upset, just tired of having to defend the same points repeatedly. And tired of having words put in my mouth or my points misunderstood, like how someone would think I’m threatening to leave because people are discussing her shortcomings... People decide they disagree with your main point, so they start twisting every fucking sentence, and now you’re having to go down the rabbit hole of correcting all that nonsense. It’s not worth it.

The fact that the people I called downplayers have admitted they don’t even play the game, and no one is acknowledging that, is insane. It just shows the bias at play. You’d rather trust a fraud who doesn’t even play the game because your opinions are similar, than a player who has been non-stop labbing and using the character and providing detailed concrete points to back up their arguments.
 

seanpon

Noob
I legit don’t know how to respond to your post, or even how you expect me to respond.

I’m not upset, just tired of having to defend the same points repeatedly. And tired of having words put in my mouth or my points misunderstood, like how someone would think I’m threatening to leave because people are discussing her shortcomings... People decide they disagree with your main point, so they start twisting every fucking sentence, and now you’re having to go down the rabbit hole of correcting all that nonsense. It’s not worth it.

The fact that the people I called downplayers have admitted they don’t even play the game, and no one is acknowledging that, is insane. It just shows the bias at play. You’d rather trust a fraud who doesn’t even play the game because your opinions are similar, than a player who has been non-stop labbing and using the character and providing detailed concrete points to back up their arguments.
"Non stop-labbing the character" yet you don't even know her variation names LOL. And your the one who thinks that F21 is actually good and you claim you make use of that all the time, maybe against people who have the reaction time of an infant, but i guarantee at higher levels raw F21 doesn't work, its too slow and you can jump over it for some reason, and of course its death on block considering many characters have fast advancing normals. When your trying to claim Jade's biggest short coming which is her damage is fine and not really a big issue, you completely eliminate yourself from the conversation and show that you don't know how the character works. The character doesn't have any comeback potential, and when she can't zone she literally can't keep up in the match up bc she doesn't have the damage to be in line with the opposing character. Many others including myself who have played Jade get this point very clearly and have experienced it a problem in many match ups, but you don't seem to understand it I guess because your daft or don't understand how the character works.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
You’d rather trust a fraud who doesn’t even play the game because your opinions are similar, than a player who has been non-stop labbing and using the character and providing detailed concrete points to back up their arguments.
What are you even talking about? I'm not trusting anybody -I labbed and played a bunch of matches with Jade before finally deciding she wasn't worth using - and nobody else is either. They're describing their experiences with the game. You don't even know which variation is which but you insist you lab harder than anybody else so people should take your word for it over their own experiences with the character? That's absolute bollocks dude

The idea that people that don't play the game anymore is weird too, I don't know why you'd waste your time doing that but it's not like the game has changed and the things they're talking about are no longer true. If their character sucked and they'd rather quit the game than learn a new character that's a valid experience.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
Wow, that entire post did pretty much everything I complained about in my previous post. You twisted my arguments, you put words in my mouth, and you debated nonsense I wasn’t even discussing.

How does not knowing the variation names mean anything? I immediately edited the two default variations to have the tournament moves and didn’t bother editing the names. Blame NRS’s shitty variation system for that one. The fact that’s even being brought up is testament to the fact that people can’t debate my actual arguments, you have to try to find nonsense to attack.

I never said I lab harder than anyone else, stop fucking twisting my words to make it easier for you to debate me. I said they don’t even play the game and I still lab it constantly, so yeah, people should probably put more stock in my opinion than theirs. That’s not unreasonable, but again, you and others are just actively trying to find things to disagree about.

So here I am on paragraph 4 and all I’ve been doing is correcting the nonsense of your 1 single post. Do you not see how that can get frustrating and exhausting real quick? And I bet I’m in for another response that will be full of misquotes and twisted logic designed to make it look like I said things I absolutely did not.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Wow, that entire post did pretty much everything I complained about in my previous post. You twisted my arguments, you put words in my mouth, and you debated nonsense I wasn’t even discussing.

How does not knowing the variation names mean anything? I immediately edited the two default variations to have the tournament moves and didn’t bother editing the names. Blame NRS’s shitty variation system for that one. The fact that’s even being brought up is testament to the fact that people can’t debate my actual arguments, you have to try to find nonsense to attack.

I never said I lab harder than anyone else, stop fucking twisting my words to make it easier for you to debate me. I said they don’t even play the game and I still lab it constantly, so yeah, people should probably put more stock in my opinion than theirs. That’s not unreasonable, but again, you and others are just actively trying to find things to disagree about.

So here I am on paragraph 4 and all I’ve been doing is correcting the nonsense of your 1 single post. Do you not see how that can get frustrating and exhausting real quick? And I bet I’m in for another response that will be full of misquotes and twisted logic designed to make it look like I said things I absolutely did not.

Right. Everybody misunderstands you and twists your quotes. You're obviously the only honest person in this thread. I understand why you're so upset now.

You've been arguing that people can't be taken seriously because they're not still playing the game, then jumped straight to your own effort spent labbing. That's an argument that you know better because you lab harder. Which is what I exactly what Isaid - that you think you have credibility because you lab harder than anybody else in this discussion.
And not knowing the variations isn't just a matter of not changing the name on your console. You'd learn the variation names if you were attending tournaments or playing tournament mode in other offline setting or if you were watching tournaments, or participating in discussions about the character with other people. You want us to believe that you know better about the character while you apparently experience the game in a total vacuum? You're being totally absurd

You know this is just a forum about a video game, right? You don't have to type 4 paragraphs if you don't want to. If you think someone's wrong you can disagree without getting angry at them, insisting they're misquoting you and intentionally twisting logic, and working yourself into a tizzy. If people really are misunderstanding you so consistently it might be a communication problem on your part
 

Sanjo

Noob
Right. Everybody misunderstands you and twists your quotes. You're obviously the only honest person in this thread. I understand why you're so upset now.

You've been arguing that people can't be taken seriously because they're not still playing the game, then jumped straight to your own effort spent labbing. That's an argument that you know better because you lab harder. Which is what I exactly what Isaid - that you think you have credibility because you lab harder than anybody else in this discussion.
And not knowing the variations isn't just a matter of not changing the name on your console. You'd learn the variation names if you were attending tournaments or playing tournament mode in other offline setting or if you were watching tournaments, or participating in discussions about the character with other people. You want us to believe that you know better about the character while you apparently experience the game in a total vacuum? You're being totally absurd

You know this is just a forum about a video game, right? You don't have to type 4 paragraphs if you don't want to. If you think someone's wrong you can disagree without getting angry at them, insisting they're misquoting you and intentionally twisting logic, and working yourself into a tizzy. If people really are misunderstanding you so consistently it might be a communication problem on your part
Yeah, sorry but between someone who dropped the game and someone still trying to find stuff, getting better, gathering mu exp, I'd rather give more credit to the latter. Sure, it doesn't mean he has to be right but that's where you've got to keep an eye and your mind opened to the options exposed. That is of course if you want to lv up your game instead of waiting for nrs to lv up your character .
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
Yeah, sorry but between someone who dropped the game and someone still trying to find stuff, getting better, gathering mu exp, I'd rather give more credit to the latter. Sure, it doesn't mean he has to be right but that's where you've got to keep an eye and your mind opened to the options exposed. That is of course if you want to lv up your game instead of waiting for nrs to lv up your character .

I agree, if he's actually playing the game and labbing as much as he claims. He's the one who just claimed I misquoted him by saying that.
 
Played like 20 ish games last night with a cancel Kabal.
Mother of GOD if jades hurtbox was that sheltered on all her staff moves and her staff hit box was like kabals it would be such a game changer.
He's a safe distance from nearly everything when he's throwing out buttons. Ridiculous.
Can't count the times my staff went right thru his hooks and I still ended up eating a combo
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
Played like 20 ish games last night with a cancel Kabal.
Mother of GOD if jades hurtbox was that sheltered on all her staff moves and her staff hit box was like kabals it would be such a game changer.
He's a safe distance from nearly everything when he's throwing out buttons. Ridiculous.
Can't count the times my staff went right thru his hooks and I still ended up eating a combo
She loses that matchup. He's literally just a better Jade.
 

xKMMx

Noob
LOL your telling us how to play our character and trying to "lab" her and making all these claims as if you know how to play Jade yet you don't even know the variation names. Your a fraud, you don't even play the same character in this discussion thread. Go troll somewhere else, i've made so many points about this character on this forum and so many others have repudiated you as well. Get out of this forum and stop being a fraud.

I guess i have to explain this again... sighhhh... there is no excuse to ever be hit by her OH, its so slow and you can see it a mile coming away. I can count how many times on one of my hands i've seen a raw F2 hit in tournaments. That move also doesn't hit jumping opponents a lot of the time for some reason even though you can clearly see it clip their feet. A lot of characters also do have pretty good advancing normals that can punish her F2 such as baraka with his F4 coming to mind. No one cares if Jade is the "best" or not, just give her a damage buff so she can fall in line with the rest of the cast. No other character has 18% Bnb's, actually play the character and understand her strengths/flaws before you comment
Why would I play her if she has 18 percent B and B’s. That’s just dumb. I get it that you guys want to play Jade and have her be good. But just accept her weaknesses and do your best or move off her so you can save yourself some salty tears. I was alllllllllll in on Noob Saibot at launch. But .......he has limitations that I can overcome as a player so I picked a character I can do something more with. I mean there are like 27 other characters.
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
Maybe time to pickup kabal then :)
So if Lao loses to Liu because Liu is a better rushdown character, why do you play Lao?
I have better question for you, why do you feel compelled to bullshit me all the time?
You keep coming into this thread and getting personal at me repeatedly when all I want is my main to be a better character.

I don't know why this disturbs you but I want to keep playing with you so let's try to be nice to one another?
I understand that TYM has this overall unpleasant attitude that people are consumed by every so often but do we really need to do this dance over and over?

Jade was always neglectedtier, I want her to get some love and end up an honest-to-god top tier for just once in a life time without being horribly broken or stupid and just an all around great character. She's not it right now.

Please stop hounding me.
 
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