Game is Unplayable

[Eddy Wang]

Look at this clip. I walk into Tom’s stream for 10 seconds. Tell me how many antiairs do you see for jumping here.

1. There was 1 attempted antiair at halfscreen and the guy lost for it. That Jax sat there an waited to antiair with a d2 and lost to an average jump in lol

In this MK Uppercuts are solid AAs across the cast and they do their job pretty well, jump attacks are not as strong as they were in MKX and MK9, in fact Jump kicks have way less active frames than in the past, but the jump kick concept definitely changed.
You can anti-air anything on the way down but its going to be dificult to do with jabs if they perform kicks at the tip of the height of their jumps, however they are pretty vulnerable to neutral crouch which in consequence makes them vulnerable to uppercuts and U2.

So if they want to hit someone who is lowering their hitbox they have to decend and hit the kick late which in consequence makes them vulnerable to jab AAs and all other horizontal hitbox normals that can be used as AA, its a tit for tat system so one cancels the other.

What you and mostly everyone is trying often its to jab ppl out of the air no matter their height however if your opponent its doing a kick that beat jabs he is going to win, you have to either space correctly and whiff punish on the ground, crouch to whiff and punish on the ground or uppercut so they can either stop jumping, hitting the kick late so you can Jab AA.

 

[THTB]

You gotta understand that even if you have antiairs, it doesnt change that this is ultimately the game’s meta. Do you think people want to sit around babysitting jump ins all day, playing crouch and d3 simulator?

8 jumps in 20 seconds and bunch of scramble mash. That’s the average level of play to be expected in this game and why people like OP hate it. Where’s the deep neutral these defenders in this thread claim to see? The poke game and the jump game is trash... and those are the 2 core parts of this game lol

It's AVERAGE level. I don't expect consistent AAs at average level any game lol.

AAs are not invincible in MK. Cool, it's given that you have to watch for them more. But to say the options are bad when characters are out here with consistent AAs that do the equivalent of a whole ass grounded combo is an odd statement.

 

[THTB]

Since we're showing off videos of examples...let's show some matches where both players were getting sniped out of the air.

While yes, you have to scope out anti air opportunities more due to the lack of invincible ones, they were everywhere here, and were extremely reliable. Hell, Scar did AA damage consistent with a damn SF super, thanks to an AA option with a KB. There are literal characters who can strip you of 500+ life on very reliable AA options.

One thing I've seen said on a number of occasions for SFV is that people tend to have no care about getting AA'd, cuz it took one good jump to make up for everything, despite how consistent invincible anti airs were.

 

[3kCle]

It's also important to note that this is Tom's day 2 Shang playing online in an informal setting. We'll see if Top 8 at a major looks anything like that short clip

 

[lxValkenhaynxl]

Lets be honest the guessing in mk games was always annoying.
The fact is like the the jump from sf4 to sf5 and mkx to mk11 publishers are to much putting their gsmes out with the we need to take the casuals or new ones in consideration.
Dont get me wrong i realy love mk11 as frustrating as it canbe at times but i think the days for exceptionsly good games are over. Its the same for every genre, mobas, mmos, fighting games there is no real skill involved anymore or at least way less then there used to be, hell its the grneration nowadays, i am 35 years old and when i was in my twentys games were the real deal. Conenctration, practice getting good and so on, nowadays its so luck and guessbased.
Had a match today against a sonya who whopped my ass so i switched to cetrion and just spammed the shit ouz of her zoning tools, 1 round flawless, ond round sitzing at 80% life, best id got party invited and called mofo, bad player, trash ass garbage player and so on was kinda funny lol

 

[Shanedawg1995]

I didn't play mkx but played mk9 religiously had over 20k games online and played a lot of good folks. A few names in tournament scenes. Jumping straight from 9 to 11 really pulled at my heart strings. Think I'm gunna sit it down for a bit put to much time into it as is. I wanted to get serious with it and maybe will some other time. Not a bad game just expected more and the culture it has provided i just can't deal with right now

I was beast at MK9 ranked 5th on PSN sucked at MKX.Doing ok in 11 but really need to find a good zoning Character.Maybe Scarlet!!

 

[Marlow]

Dont get me wrong i realy love mk11 as frustrating as it canbe at times but i think the days for exceptionsly good games are over

I feel like if you actually took these so called exceptionally good games from the past and took a good look at them in the same way people seem to look at games now you'd find many if not more of the same flaws people complain about in newer titles.

Just curious, why do you say there is "no real skill involved anymore"? Or that games today are luck and guess based? If anything I feel like games are even more about skill and practice today, since so many more players are able to play competitively through online, have better access and understanding of frame data and game mechanics, and have access to tutorials and guides.

 

[Shanedawg1995]

Games are made easier to play because of microtransactions.I posted a thread two days ago why Scorpions tele is so easy to do and it will not be nerfed.Everyone read my post and said !!Huh!! What!!
More winning equals more money in NRSs pockets.People who win pay money to pimp out their character and play the game longer.
The same reason Krushing blows and Fatal Blows were put in this game so not so good players still have a chance.

 

[Marlow]

Games are made easier to play because of have microtransactions

Micro transactions don't do anything to make your character better.

 

[Shanedawg1995]

Micro transactions don't do anything to make your character better.

Yeah I know they dont but what if the varation system went that way.Just a thought.Maybe charge for new variants for a character like in Call of Duty with new guns that are OP.Winning makes you play longer which in turn makes you spend more money on skins to pimp out your character.You are correct it does not make them better.They just look better.!!

 

[lxValkenhaynxl]

I feel like if you actually took these so called exceptionally good games from the past and took a good look at them in the same way people seem to look at games now you'd find many if not more of the same flaws people complain about in newer titles.

Just curious, why do you say there is "no real skill involved anymore"? Or that games today are luck and guess based? If anything I feel like games are even more about skill and practice today, since so many more players are able to play competitively through online, have better access and understanding of frame data and game mechanics, and have access to tutorials and guides.

Its just my oppinion to be honest, its just when i look at different games like wow or tera where bosses were actualy hard in the beginning all got toned down to make newb or noobfriendlier. I mean the scrubs in mk11 are real i fought about 10 liu kangs out of about 15 matches and they didnt have skill u could see it, its basically jumping in no anti airs, no getup d2 or d3s. They basicaly challenge their luck using the same stupid 2,3 up3 string over and over again with cancrl into fireball or parry. I might be wrong sorry but giving a character an option to cancel into 3 even 4 differrnt endings makes liu ksng nothing more than a guessheavy stupid charactr and where is the skill in that? Its basicaly the guy with the most luck gets beaten in that string. Mindgames is one thing a good read another and mk11 i think has way to much guessing than actualy skill at least for a lot of the cast. Just take the chars with no 50/50 ending mixups like kitana, johnny cage, frost and so on u get the idea against liu kang, sub zero, kabal. You can learn the matchup all you want but in the end their characters got already a higher percentage of whinning only cause of that 50/50 factor which is always in mk games. Its way harder to open someone up with chars that don't have those 50/50 ending strings. And that to me is just guessing right or wrong not reading your opponent. Like i said i sure might be wrong but its my opinion

 

[Matix218]

Yeah I know they dont but what if the varation system went that way.Just a thought.Maybe charge for new variants for a character like in Call of Duty with new guns that are OP.Winning makes you play longer which in turn makes you spend more money on skins to pimp out your character.You are correct it does not make them better.They just look better.!!

They could do that but it wont affect the tournament variations anyway so it's not like the competative scene would become pay to win. NRS is pretty plugged in to our tournament scene so they know better.

 

[Espio]

I try not to comment on most stuff in the community like I used to, but it seems as if complaints are getting more egregious as time goes on.

I've played fighting games online since they have existed, this is my first MK game that I made an effort to try and learn and it is by far the WORST online game I have ever played in my entire life. Fighting games are supposed to be about reactions and making reads on your opponent. This game is 100% guessing and 50 / 50 scenarios which is complete garbage. Basically skill level is irrelevant its all about who can get the first knockdown and guess correctly from there on out. My wife watches me play, never touched a fighting game in her life nor does she play video games. She actually beat someone by picking baraka and mashing buttons without a clue. Why is this possible? Because it was so unpredictable her opponent had no idea what to do and by the time he realized she was clueless it was too late. He guessed wrong a few more times and by then it was over.

There are literally 0 mechanics of a fighting game at play here. Its literally just an advanced version of rock paper scissors, but I guess thats what the modern fighting game is since you have to cater to people who are mentally challenged just so people will play your game. I tried to approach this game objectively and patiently as possible but its straight up trash.

Add all this up and combo it with the cesspool servers that support online play and I nearly put my arcade stick threw my TV. Seriously some of the crap I experienced in the last hour of online has been unbelievable that I actually have a headache from it.

I wish i knew some people that actually showered who I could play this game offline with, but I am not that fortunate.

I have to ask you, what fighting games don't have some type of 50/50 whether that's strike versus throw or overhead/low mix ups?. Reads are guesses too based on common behaviors for your opponent or common strategies. Strike versus throw is a pretty traditional fighting game mix up.

The wake up game is excellent with rolls, up 3, up 4, and for people not abusing delay wake up, you are doing it wrong. Delayed wake up is the real tea. There's too many options to wake up and also scoring a knockdown should be rewarded and isn't anything to be mad about, it's a pretty to be expected trait.

Low level players playing low level players shows absolutely nothing about a game. My brother beat me with Fei Long in SF4 doing goofy stuff, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the game considering I wasn't good at SF4 when it first came out.

Online is hit or miss, I play wired people if I want a serious/enjoyable experience. That's all contingent on who you play and ranked is suspect.

People's egos are all out of whack. The game has things I also don't like about it, but folks talk like they're some footsie gods playing optimal. I'll play wifey and blow up all that mashing, randomness if a demo is required my baby.

 

[santanabar]

Since we're showing off videos of examples...let's show some matches where both players were getting sniped out of the air.

While yes, you have to scope out anti air opportunities more due to the lack of invincible ones, they were everywhere here, and were extremely reliable. Hell, Scar did AA damage consistent with a damn SF super, thanks to an AA option with a KB. There are literal characters who can strip you of 500+ life on very reliable AA options.

One thing I've seen said on a number of occasions for SFV is that people tend to have no care about getting AA'd, cuz it took one good jump to make up for everything, despite how consistent invincible anti airs were.

Come on dude, sonya d1 is godlike aa, not every character has a button like that. And baraka uppercut is probably top 3 in the game.

Watch characters with normal aa and game is a jumping kick fiesta.

 

[3kCle]

Imo, if anything, the transition MKX to MK11 is more like the reverse of the SF4 to SF5 situation.

 

[Marlow]

I mean the scrubs in mk11 are real i fought about 10 liu kangs out of about 15 matches and they didnt have skill u could see it, its basically jumping in no anti airs, no getup d2 or d3s. They basicaly challenge their luck using the same stupid 2,3 up3 string over and over again with cancrl into fireball or parry

I understand it's your opinion, I'm not trying to take that away. But what I'm trying to point out is this type of thing exists in pretty much any fighting game ever. There's almost always a character, or move, or string, or whatever that a beginner player can spam over and over again and get wins. This isn't something new that started with MKX, Injustice 2, or MK11. This type of stuff has been around since Street Fighter II, when players could spam fireballs, or spam things like hundred hand slap.

 

[THTB]

Come on dude, sonya d1 is godlike aa, not every character has a button like that. And baraka uppercut is probably top 3 in the game.

Most jab AAs in the game are reliable, and plenty of characters have good d1 and d3 AAs as well. There's too much underselling of the AA game.

 

[TheReal-Ex_Matt]

Chill out for what??? Scrubs talking shit and making stuff up need to be called out.

LOL what have I made up?

I wonder what your skill level is in MK....I'm more than confident if we were to play any street fighter from 4 down any marvel vs capcom I'd dummy you then go around on forums telling anyone who will listen what a scrub you are. I wonder how I would look then? Probably like the biggest douche bag ever, kind of like you right here right now.

Funny thing is you've never even played me in MK, I watched a lot of Combo Breaker Mk11, I didn't see you there. You're literally a no body trying to big yourself up attacking a new player lol. What a loser.

 

[Shanedawg1995]

They could do that but it wont affect the tournament variations anyway so it's not like the competative scene would become pay to win. NRS is pretty plugged in to our tournament scene so they know better.

Yeah Call Duty only has certain guns in league,so you would be correct!!

 

[Matix218]

LOL what have I made up?

I wonder what your skill level is in MK....I'm more than confident if we were to play any street fighter from 4 down any marvel vs capcom I'd dummy you then go around on forums telling anyone who will listen what a scrub you are. I wonder how I would look then? Probably like the biggest douche bag ever, kind of like you right here right now.

Funny thing is you've never even played me in MK, I watched a lot of Combo Breaker Mk11, I didn't see you there. You're literally a no body trying to big yourself up attacking a new player lol. What a loser.

You are both annoying. No one cares about who talks tougher online on a forum.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

LOL what have I made up?

I wonder what your skill level is in MK....I'm more than confident if we were to play any street fighter from 4 down any marvel vs capcom I'd dummy you then go around on forums telling anyone who will listen what a scrub you are. I wonder how I would look then? Probably like the biggest douche bag ever, kind of like you right here right now.

Funny thing is you've never even played me in MK, I watched a lot of Combo Breaker Mk11, I didn't see you there. You're literally a no body trying to big yourself up attacking a new player lol. What a loser.

Yeee bois we 12 now

 

[TheReal-Ex_Matt]

I try not to comment on most stuff in the community like I used to, but it seems as if complaints are getting more egregious as time goes on.





I have to ask you, what fighting games don't have some type of 50/50 whether that's strike versus throw or overhead/low mix ups?. Reads are guesses too based on common behaviors for your opponent or common strategies. Strike versus throw is a pretty traditional fighting game mix up.

The wake up game is excellent with rolls, up 3, up 4, and for people not abusing delay wake up, you are doing it wrong. Delayed wake up is the real tea. There's too many options to wake up and also scoring a knockdown should be rewarded and isn't anything to be mad about, it's a pretty to be expected trait.

Low level players playing low level players shows absolutely nothing about a game. My brother beat me with Fei Long in SF4 doing goofy stuff, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the game considering I wasn't good at SF4 when it first came out.

Online is hit or miss, I play wired people if I want a serious/enjoyable experience. That's all contingent on who you play and ranked is suspect.

People's egos are all out of whack. The game has things I also don't like about it, but folks talk like they're some footsie gods playing optimal. I'll play wifey and blow up all that mashing, randomness if a demo is required my baby.

Yes there are 50/50s in every single fighting game thats obvious. I played MvC2 for 10+ years and was used to blocking rushdown characters magneto / storm instant tri-jumps and non stop mixups. I could reaction block those but can't reaction block a Geras who does 1 1 sand pit? or 1 1 1 overhead?? Like I said its probably a product of only being able to play online. . .

I guess the game isn't unplayable like the thread title claims, its just incredibly scrub friendly in so many regards to the point where it doesnt make sense to practice it or take seriously unless youre a top tournament player.


Regarding the whole anti air thing.

You cannot reaction anti air with uppercut. If you're blocking when the opponent leaves the ground and try to anti air, youre getting beat 100% of the time.

edit:

Bottom line is fighting games used to make you have to work for your damage and put in time too learn combos. Now in both SF and MK the damage is free and the tactics are dumbed down to the point where 95% of the gameplay is just scrubby.

 

[Marlow]

I played MvC2 for 10+ years and was used to blocking rushdown characters magneto / storm instant tri-jumps and non stop mixups. I could reaction block those but can't reaction block a Geras who does 1 1 sand pit? or 1 1 1 overhead?? Like I said its probably a product of only being able to play online. . .

It could also be a product of having played MvC2 for 10+ years got you really good at learning when/how to block those specific things, but MK11 is still a new game so you're not as experienced with it. It might not be an issue with the game, and instead more an issue with the amount of time you've put into the game.

 

[Matix218]

Yes there are 50/50s in every single fighting game thats obvious. I played MvC2 for 10+ years and was used to blocking rushdown characters magneto / storm instant tri-jumps and non stop mixups. I could reaction block those but can't reaction block a Geras who does 1 1 sand pit? or 1 1 1 overhead?? Like I said its probably a product of only being able to play online. . .

I guess the game isn't unplayable like the thread title claims, its just incredibly scrub friendly in so many regards to the point where it doesnt make sense to practice it or take seriously unless youre a top tournament player.


Regarding the whole anti air thing.

You cannot reaction anti air with uppercut. If you're blocking when the opponent leaves the ground and try to anti air, youre getting beat 100% of the time.

Not all d2s have the same properties man. Some have faster startup, more reach, etc. Sounds like you are talking about a specific d2 and applying that to the whole cast.

 

[fr stack]

[QUOTE="TheReal-Ex_Matt, post: 2543375, member: 62331"
But the fact that several people in this thread agree with my OP goes to show that I'm not just spewing toxicity.

Unfortunately, it is likely that the people agreeing with you are lower-level players who aren't able to adapt to the game and shut down the options of their opponents. One look at Ninja Killa's 100+ winstreak should be enough evidence that MK11 is not a random guessing game that forces you to use "scrub tactics" and that it is actually a very solid game in terms of fighting game fundamentals
[/QUOTE]
Nah just means his characters are broken dude get with the meta