Game is Unplayable

[Matix218]

I dont look at it as "guessing"...I look at it as countering perspective tendencies. MAYBE the first few trades in the first round are "guesses" depending on the character but I approach this, and literally every MK game since 93 like this:
step 1- MAKE the opponent guess
step 2- MAKE the opponent guess WRONG
step 3- repeat step 2
I think the issues people who oppose the OP are having, myself included...is the usage of the term "guess" in this instance.
BTW, Kudos to you my good sir, for taking the name calling and such in stride...you dont see that very often these days

I agree with this. It is called conditioning. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the Sonic Foxes and Scars of the world always seem to either win or be top 3 in a tournament setting? Are they just godlike guessers with insane luck? Heck no, they are able to observe tendencies and condition their opponents to respond in predictable ways. If the game was pure guessing/luck you would not see all of the same "regulars" in top 8 game after game. Even in mkx which 100% had more 50/50 guess situations than mk11 it was still ultimately the same top guys placing top 8 over and over. Everything in fighting games involves reading and conditioning your opponent.

 

[3kCle]

Jumping isnt bad in mk11 because you have damaging punishes? Sure you’re given options to punish them hard.... in training mode.

Ok I'm going to end the conversation here if your AA punishes are limited to training mode. I get hard AA punishes very consistently. Most characters can cover nearly every jip or jik with the right timing and button choice.

 

[B. Shazzy]

I guess it depends on who’s predicting.

Look at this clip. I walk into Tom’s stream for 10 seconds. Tell me how many antiairs do you see for jumping here.

1. There was 1 attempted antiair at halfscreen and the guy lost for it. That Jax sat there an waited to antiair with a d2 and lost to an average jump in lol

 

[GLoRToR]

Nothing wrong with that. A lot of my gamplan with Gief was based around c.lp and spd in SFV

Dive kick yo' ass for that m4+4

 

[B. Shazzy]

Ok I'm going to end the conversation here if your AA punishes are limited to training mode. I get hard AA punishes very consistently. Most characters can cover nearly every jip or jik with the right timing and button choice.

You know Im the reason people learned about Cassie’s damaging B3 antiair first right? I know how to antiair, trust me buddy. When Chef went to the Summit to commentate and he was doing Cassie B3 antiair and everyone was like “oh gee whiz man Cassie B3 who knew”... I did. Because me and Chef play all the time and he specifically plays Cassie because he learned her from me first lul.

But by all means, show us the way bro. Post some match footage of your gdlk antiairs in action. Lets see this high level play where you antiair at will vs Sonicfox pls man

 

[3kCle]

Look at this clip. I walk into Tom’s stream for 10 seconds. Tell me how many antiairs do you see for jumping here.

1. There was 1 attempted antiair at halfscreen and the guy lost for it. That Jax sat there an waited to antiair with a d2 and lost to an average jump in lol

You showed me a clip where there was only one jik and the Jax chose the incorrect AA option and got beat for it. If he did S1 and timed it properly, he would have been heavily rewarded. What is this supposed to prove? Do I need to start linking clips where people choose the correct options?

Edit: I'm not a pro, nor am I playing against pros. I, like many others, figured out Cassie B3 as an AA my first time playing her. Show me matches where Tokido gets AA'd at will. It doesn't happen not due to a fault in the game, but because jumps from top players are unpredictable. I truly do not know what you are getting at.

 

[DDustiNN]

This game is so unplayable that I’ve been playing it nearly every single day since release and I’m still not sick of it.

 

[B. Shazzy]

You showed me a clip where there was only one jik and the Jax chose the incorrect AA option and got beat for it. If he did S1 and timed it properly, he would have been heavily rewarded. What is this supposed to prove? Do I need to start linking clips where people choose the correct options?

I though D2 was the universal antiair option according to you? I thought antiair options were supposed to actually antiair? Oh the universal antiair option is the wrong button now, I get it.... lol. Why dont you post a clip of Ryu dp losing to a raw jump in and then we’ll talk about antiairs ok? Find me that clip after watching a sf stream for literally 10 seconds.

 

[3kCle]

I though D2 was the universal antiair option according to you? I thought antiair options were supposed to actually antiair? Oh the universal antiair option is the wrong button now, I get it.... lol. Why dont you post a clip of Ryu dp losing to a raw jump in and then we’ll talk about antiairs ok? Find me that clip after watching a sf stream for literally 10 seconds.

Sure man let me just do what you did and find a clip where Ryu whiffs a dp because it wasn't the right option. Being universal doesn't mean it works every time.

 

[ExpectFlames]

Sure man let me just do what you did and find a clip where Ryu whiffs a dp because it wasn't the right option. Being universal doesn't mean it works every time.

The kinda the definition of universal lol

 

[B. Shazzy]

Sure man let me just do what you did and find a clip where Ryu whiffs a dp because it wasn't the right option. Being universal doesn't mean it works every time.

Bro... The universal antiair option, according to your own words, lost, as in completely beaten - not “whiffed”- to a fullscreen average jumpkick. Maybe youre right, that if the planets align and its his birthday and Nostradamus himself predicted he coulda timed that D2 correctly to perfectly antiair there it wouldve worked out for him. But its not the case and it happens all the time.

Youre definition of an antiair is colored by the fact that youre only an nrs player, so we cant have a meaningful discussion here. You think situational antiairs that you do on reads and baits or something and that’s A-OK because you can squeeze some damage out of them. You have no clue what its like to play a gief or character with dp in sf even feels like to try and hold up in neutral like the game is mk11 lol. Even in sfv jab aa exists and theyre 3/4 frame startup. The game had to nerf antiair jab at one point. Ask any pro fg player if they would have rather have a consitent universal antiair to play footsies eith on reaction over a slow, hard ass read aa that gets more damage but cant be used reactively or at most ranges but damn does it get 5% more damage so its great antiair man lol

 

[ExpectFlames]

When as a community will we realize were toxic over reactors. Theres not a single person who thinks that mk11 is perfect with zero flaws. Every single one of you has complained about about something at some point so instead of coming together and working through it you toxic swine berate the guy. Who cares if he says the games bad NRS IS NOT PAYING YOU TO DEFEND IT. Work together lvl up

 

[Rodney Quillz]

You know Im the reason people learned about Cassie’s damaging B3 antiair first right? I know how to antiair, trust me buddy. When Chef went to the Summit to commentate and he was doing Cassie B3 antiair and everyone was like “oh gee whiz man Cassie B3 who knew”... I did. Because me and Chef play all the time and he specifically plays Cassie because he learned her from me first lul.

But by all means, show us the way bro. Post some match footage of your gdlk antiairs in action. Lets see this high level play where you antiair at will vs Sonicfox pls man

Bro... The universal antiair option, according to your own words, lost, as in completely beaten - not “whiffed”- to a fullscreen average jumpkick. Maybe youre right, that if the planets align and its his birthday and Nostradamus himself predicted he coulda timed that D2 correctly to perfectly antiair there it wouldve worked out for him. But its not the case and it happens all the time.

Youre definition of an antiair is colored by the fact that youre only an nrs player, so we cant have a meaningful discussion here. You think situational antiairs that you do on reads and baits or something and that’s A-OK because you can squeeze some damage out of them. You have no clue what its like to play a gief or character with dp in sf even feels like to try and hold up in neutral like the game is mk11 lol. Even in sfv jab aa exists and theyre 3/4 frame startup. The game had to nerf antiair jab at one point.

You are swimming against the current man.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

When as a community will we realize were toxic over reactors. Theres not a single person who thinks that mk11 is perfect with zero flaws. Every single one of you has complained about about something at some point so instead of coming together and working through it you toxic swine berate the guy. Who cares if he says the games bad NRS IS NOT PAYING YOU TO DEFEND IT. Work together lvl up

Ed boon is footing the panini bill this month.
Can’t blame them, who doesn’t love a lightly toasted sandwich.

 

[Matix218]

Bro... The universal antiair option, according to your own words, lost, as in completely beaten - not “whiffed”- to a fullscreen average jumpkick. Maybe youre right, that if the planets align and its his birthday and Nostradamus himself predicted he coulda timed that D2 correctly to perfectly antiair there it wouldve worked out for him. But its not the case and it happens all the time.

Youre definition of an antiair is colored by the fact that youre only an nrs player, so we cant have a meaningful discussion here. You think situational antiairs that you do on reads and baits or something and that’s A-OK because you can squeeze some damage out of them. You have no clue what its like to play a gief or character with dp in sf even feels like to try and hold up in neutral like the game is mk11 lol. Even in sfv jab aa exists and theyre 3/4 frame startup. The game had to nerf antiair jab at one point. Ask any pro fg player if they would have rather have a consitent universal antiair to play footsies eith on reaction over a slow, hard ass read aa that gets more damage but cant be used reactively or at most ranges but damn does it get 5% more damage so its great antiair man lol

NRS players that have been here since 2011 know what consistent anti airs are. Jab anti airs were very consistent in mk9 100% on reaction (no read required) and also had great follow up damage to further add to the risk of jumping. Mkx had (depending on character) overall less reliable anti airs plus a run mechanic that made reacting to anything from jump distance very difficult (because there were too many options to close that gap besides jumping) but mk9's anti airs were very reliable IMO

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

Bro... The universal antiair option, according to your own words, lost, as in completely beaten - not “whiffed”- to a fullscreen average jumpkick. Maybe youre right, that if the planets align and its his birthday and Nostradamus himself predicted he coulda timed that D2 correctly to perfectly antiair there it wouldve worked out for him. But its not the case and it happens all the time.

Youre definition of an antiair is colored by the fact that youre only an nrs player, so we cant have a meaningful discussion here. You think situational antiairs that you do on reads and baits or something and that’s A-OK because you can squeeze some damage out of them. You have no clue what its like to play a gief or character with dp in sf even feels like to try and hold up in neutral like the game is mk11 lol. Even in sfv jab aa exists and theyre 3/4 frame startup. The game had to nerf antiair jab at one point. Ask any pro fg player if they would have rather have a consitent universal antiair to play footsies eith on reaction over a slow, hard ass read aa that gets more damage but cant be used reactively or at most ranges but damn does it get 5% more damage so its great antiair man lol

So the argument here is that jumping shouldn't be a part of the game's neutral play ever and we should just get D2s for free every time the opponent leaves the ground?

 

[B. Shazzy]

NRS players that have been here since 2011 know what consistent anti airs are. Jab anti airs were very consistent in mk9 100% on reaction (no read required) and also had great follow up damage to further add to the risk of jumping. Mkx had (depending on character) overall less reliable anti airs plus a run mechanic that made reacting to anything from jump distance very difficult (because there were too many options to close that gap besides jumping) but mk9's anti airs were very reliable IMO

MK9 is long gone. From Inj 1 to now its been the same story for the better part of a decade and 4 nrs games...Mk9 was just one game and it.

 

[3kCle]

Youre definition of an antiair is colored by the fact that youre only an nrs player,

Lol that's a lot of assumptions you're making. I've been playing SF competitively since 09 as well as a variety of other FGs. Does my opinion count now? I will admit that it is harder to properly AA in MK than in SF (where I can DP), but you also generally receive a bigger reward if you do it properly. I, personally, love the AA system in MK11.

To the guy who thinks that the definition of universal is that it always works:
-Throws are universal
-Short hop overheads are universal

Do these options work every single time? No, but they are Available to all characters. That is what universal means.

 

[Matix218]

MK9 is long gone. From Inj 1 to now its been the same story for the better part of a decade and 4 nrs games...Mk9 was just one game and it.

No I agree with you that since mk9 anti airs have been much more hit or miss in all of the subsequent nrs games. Just saying that some NRS only players who were playing before IGAU1 are familiar with what good anti airs feel like.

 

[B. Shazzy]

So the argument here is that jumping shouldn't be a part of the game's neutral play ever and we should just get D2s for free every time the opponent leaves the ground?

Yes... imagine a game where people are required to jump in purposely and with calculation. Scary thought. And not because “why not” or “whats the worst thats gonna happen” or “Im scorpion” lol

You know what happens to the neutral in a game like that? Where you’re forced to play on the ground and whiff punish and be thoughtful? Its called footsies lul

Lol that's a lot of assumptions you're making. I've been playing SF competitively since 09 as well as a variety of other FGs. Does my opinion count now? I will admit that it is harder to properly AA in MK than in SF (where I can DP), but you also generally receive a bigger reward if you do it properly. I, personally, love the AA system in MK11.

To the guy who thinks that the definition of universal is that it always works:
-Throws are universal
-Short hop overheads are universal

Do these options work every single time? No, but they are Available to all characters. That is what universal means.

We can both agree its possible to antiair in this game. The difference is the risk/reward. There is too much power in jumping in this game, period. Thats my point. It doesnt matter if youre high level or low level, its always jumpsies scrambled neutral. I dont care if every once in a while I get more damage out of prediciting jump ins, either. The first issue with this game is the poke system and then its the jumping they should fix

 

[3kCle]

I'm starting to think that I'm biased by playing Liu and Kitana who can both d3 and low profile some jik's where s1 and d2 aren't effective. I can see where not having an option in those situations would be frustrating.

 

[B. Shazzy]

I'm starting to think that I'm biased by playing Liu and Kitana who can both d3 and low profile some jik's where s1 and d2 aren't effective. I can see where not having an option in those situations would be frustrating.

You gotta understand that even if you have antiairs, it doesnt change that this is ultimately the game’s meta. Do you think people want to sit around babysitting jump ins all day, playing crouch and d3 simulator?

8 jumps in 20 seconds and bunch of scramble mash. That’s the average level of play to be expected in this game and why people like OP hate it. Where’s the deep neutral these defenders in this thread claim to see? The poke game and the jump game is trash... and those are the 2 core parts of this game lol

 

[santanabar]

It makes no sense jump kicks are plus on block. They are hard to aa and pretty much every single character can combo off a jump kick midscreen, so it makes jump punch kinda useless. Also, they beat most wake up options.

Imo it should be:
Jump kick neg on block (harder to anti air but lose your turn if are blocked). You can still combo off them.

Jump punches like they are now. Easier to anti air, but jail on block and full combo if you land the hit.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I will say, this thread was dumb originally not but proving to be useless. Playing Kombat League yesterday I definitely felt the pain of playing a character with no dedicated anti-air option. I got destroyed by two Baraka's with his great jump-in, plus Shang Tsung who looks to have a very good air kick as well. Not really sure what my options were.

 

[ChadHaveMercy]

and here i thought i figured out Cassies b3 aa because duh....and also shadow kicks have been great aa since 1992 :/