Scorpion General Discussion

[OutworldKeith]

Yeah that move is trash outside of combos and chip situations with df4 cancel

I’m a really conservative player, which is crazy for a Scorp main lol. I depend on my spacing for wins lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Yeah that move is trash outside of combos and chip situations with df4 cancel

Ok just remeber to my fatal blow bait. That was not trash lol.

I am a conservative player too however when I have the hard read I do not hesitate to use the F32. Success rate is not bad. However I could do it with B14 too lol (I.also catch.people jumping with F32 though - hard read is opponent will press button).

So maybe yes it is trash but you guys said SR is good due to more F3 option for stagger.
If you NEVER use F32 the opponent will just not count on it as a threat.

 

[Bar_Bar13]

What the fuck is a good consistent anti-air for scorpion?

 

[Hor_PeT]

What the fuck is a good consistent anti-air for scorpion?

For me D2 works pretty well.
J4, S1 others did not really work to me and rather gave up trying it (S4xx amp tele sounds good though lol but it was stuffed - not like in mkx haha).

 

[NaughtySenpai]

d2 even hits crossups. for jumps from farther away I just walk back and try to whiff punish. Don't like any of his buttons for anti air except 1 and d2. And honestly I only take the risk on 1 because you can convert into a combo from that.

 

[Bar_Bar13]

For me D2 works pretty well.
J4, S1 others did not really work to me and rather gave up trying it (S4xx amp tele sounds good though lol but it was stuffed - not like in mkx haha).

S4 gets stuffed way too much for my liking, and going from Noob where an anti-air is a 30% combo, Scorpion is a bit lacking in that regard if D2 is his best punish

 

[Jaywayday84]

Yeah that move is trash outside of combos and chip situations with df4 cancel

It's a good check provided you have the distance to recover.

 

[Hor_PeT]

S4 gets stuffed way too much for my liking, and going from Noob where an anti-air is a 30% combo, Scorpion is a bit lacking in that regard if D2 is his best punish

Trip guard is his best punish and it can go up to 30% as well.
But you can convert D2 into more damage in certain cases as well.

His D2 is pretty good I could catch cross overs even a bit behind me with D2.
You do not need to convert 30% every time to be good if you can anti air reliable.

 

[OutworldKeith]

It's a good check provided you have the distance to recover.

Most characters can still punish f32 max distance. I know for a fact Liu Kang can Dash cancel f43 punish it.

 

[Juggs]

Let’s keep on topic, please. This is not the thread to whine about Scorpion needing nerfs or buffs.

 

[SwiftEagle]

Let’s keep on topic, please. This is not the thread to whine about Scorpion needing nerfs or buffs.

I'm new here so forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the title of this thread read "Scorpion General Discussion"? Technically, anything pertaining to Scorpion is on topic. I never claimed that Scorpion should be nerfed, in fact, it's the Scorpion players asking for buffs as if he doesn't have enough.
I'm just going over what he has. Because of what he has, he doesn't need buffs. Buffs should go to other characters who need it.

 

[Juggs]

I'm new here so forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the title of this thread read "Scorpion General Discussion"? Technically, anything pertaining to Scorpion is on topic. I never claimed that Scorpion should be nerfed, in fact, it's the Scorpion players asking for buffs as if he doesn't have enough.
I'm just going over what he has. Because of what he has, he doesn't need buffs. Buffs should go to other characters who need it.

He absolutely doesn’t need any buffs whatsoever. That’s not the point tho. The general discussion is to discuss Scorpion’s gameplay, MU’s, strategy, combos, etc. Not to discuss nerfs or buffs. Because the discussion will inevitably lead to people just arguing with each other over just that, which completely derails the thread and defeats the purpose of it.

Any discussion of buffs will also be deleted, this isn’t the thread for it.

 

[Juggs]

S4 gets stuffed way too much for my liking, and going from Noob where an anti-air is a 30% combo, Scorpion is a bit lacking in that regard if D2 is his best punish

S4 for further range jump in, S3 for a bit closer range jump in, D2 for even closer range jump ins. But the best anti air that people aren’t using is actually his teleport. Seriously, try it. It works VERY well at any range and can’t be stuffed.

 

[SwiftEagle]

He absolutely doesn’t need any buffs whatsoever. That’s not the point tho. The general discussion is to discuss Scorpion’s gameplay, MU’s, strategy, combos, etc. Not to discuss nerfs or buffs. Because the discussion will inevitably lead to people just arguing with each other over just that, which completely derails the thread and defeats the purpose of it.

Any discussion of buffs will also be deleted, this isn’t the thread for it.

I understand and won't happen again.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Most characters can still punish f32 max distance. I know for a fact Liu Kang can Dash cancel f43 punish it.

I really want to utilize Searing Rage moves (e.g. DS) but I just do not find the room for it in neutral.
Only range where it is not likely punishable by the most characters is using it as a RAW DS in a range where even the first spin does not hit therefore on block it is nearly at max. range. It can be good dropping few times to help the core footsie game be more scary but the real damage is from footsie.
Even after F32 it is an easy punish for everyone.

Other room is as combo ender to be at full screen to be able to put BS (if the opponent can not punish it with a teleport like in mirror). In that case at least 2 moves of Searing Rage are used.
But I am not really comfortable with it, yet as BS lasts 12 seconds (I just measured it lol) and in a patient match this time is not really enough to get in and combo from full screen (forward throw is buffed for +34 damage).
However I can agree that every small counts and maybe it can be a fear factor (omg buffed Scorpion is approaching!).

Other situation for BS is after 212 combo and if you can do it in the corner and you can create a bad +3 oki position with perfect inputting. I am not comfortable with it either. Full screen 212 is better than DS ender though as you are at least not -28 but full screen problem is still remaining.
If you really want to be full screen with Scorpion YES you have both DS and 212 ender to do it. In that case Searing Rage moves become more valid.

After B3 it is still possible to put BS and in a patient neutral you can sneak in it. So that's a good way.

Other than that 2 moves 212+4 is a good more damaging ender than 112 (and still good oki) and F32 is an extra threat that the opponent SHOULD block high after F3.
I tried hit confirming F3 into F32 but no way I will do it - it is more than a read. So on read you can do it but other than that "it is trash" and probably should swap that read for B14 hitconfirm. But in that case the good opponent will not count it as a threat anymore. Maybe that can be a surprise factor sometimes after many staggers to catch mashers for more damage - as a risk taking.

Is there any other opportunity to utilize any of Searing Rage moves I missed?

 

[Hor_PeT]

S4 for further range jump in, S3 for a bit closer range jump in, D2 for even closer range jump ins. But the best anti air that people aren’t using is actually his teleport. Seriously, try it. It works VERY well at any range and can’t be stuffed.

S3 looks pretty good yes. With to bars it is around 31-32%, for 1 bar 21-22%. If you wait too much for the tele connect it will be probably stuffed but spear will connect for combo from max height too.
I may try use it but I rather do a 14% D2 than be stuffed.

I agree with teleport I use it too. The damage is also good 23-24% for 1 bar, or even 32-35% for 2 bars.

Close anti air D2 can be converted into very good damage (30-35%) as well I just messed with it now.

I am pretty satisfied with his anti air game. Raw 14% D2 is not bad either. 1 throw haha.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I really want to utilize Searing Rage moves (e.g. DS) but I just do not find the room for it in neutral.
Only range where it is not likely punishable by the most characters is using it as a RAW DS in a range where even the first spin does not hit therefore on block it is nearly at max. range. It can be good dropping few times to help the core footsie game be more scary but the real damage is from footsie.
Even after F32 it is an easy punish for everyone.

Other room is as combo ender to be at full screen to be able to put BS (if the opponent can not punish it with a teleport like in mirror). In that case at least 2 moves of Searing Rage are used.
But I am not really comfortable with it, yet as BS lasts 12 seconds (I just measured it lol) and in a patient match this time is not really enough to get in and combo from full screen (forward throw is buffed for +34 damage).
However I can agree that every small counts and maybe it can be a fear factor (omg buffed Scorpion is approaching!).

Other situation for BS is after 212 combo and if you can do it in the corner and you can create a bad +3 oki position with perfect inputting. I am not comfortable with it either. Full screen 212 is better than DS ender though as you are at least not -28 but full screen problem is still remaining.
If you really want to be full screen with Scorpion YES you have both DS and 212 ender to do it. In that case Searing Rage moves become more valid.

After B3 it is still possible to put BS and in a patient neutral you can sneak in it. So that's a good way.

Other than that 2 moves 212+4 is a good more damaging ender than 112 (and still good oki) and F32 is an extra threat that the opponent SHOULD block high after F3.
I tried hit confirming F3 into F32 but no way I will do it - it is more than a read. So on read you can do it but other than that "it is trash" and probably should swap that read for B14 hitconfirm. But in that case the good opponent will not count it as a threat anymore. Maybe that can be a surprise factor sometimes after many staggers to catch mashers for more damage - as a risk taking.

Is there any other opportunity to utilize any of Searing Rage moves I missed?

F32 isn’t something you should just throw out or whiff in neutral. Good players will Just jump and punish. The overhead is a better deterrent than the f34 KB, & will make players hesitant to poke/ jab interrupt. Makes it so much easier to land the tick throw and condition them to press buttons.

Burning Spear isn’t free in neutral as you know. Most characters have something that can punish it. In a mirror Scorp can punish it with TP full screen on reaction lol. I know @Juggs mentioned something about ending combos with f32 xx Buff. I’ve tried it and it’s a decent setup. However, you can end in 212 if you don’t want to give up any damage and still get the buff. It’s a gimmick setup I use sometimes with Amp Buff. Just d1 on block xx amp buff. If they counter poke, they’ll get hit by the amp.

Death Spin is a decent anti air from ranges outside of s4. I like to use it after a blocked d4 if my opponent likes to counter poke with strings. In a nutshell, it’s A defense move. Unless you’re going for a chip kill.

 

[Juggs]

F32 isn’t something you should just throw out or whiff in neutral. Good players will Just jump and punish. The overhead is a better deterrent than the f34 KB, & will make players hesitant to poke/ jab interrupt. Makes it so much easier to land the tick throw and condition them to press buttons.

Burning Spear isn’t free in neutral as you know. Most characters have something that can punish it. In a mirror Scorp can punish it with TP full screen on reaction lol. I know @Juggs mentioned something about ending combos with f32 xx Buff. I’ve tried it and it’s a decent setup. However, you can end in 212 if you don’t want to give up any damage and still get the buff. It’s a gimmick setup I use sometimes with Amp Buff. Just d1 on block xx amp buff. If they counter poke, they’ll get hit by the amp.

Death Spin is a decent anti air from ranges outside of s4. I like to use it after a blocked d4 if my opponent likes to counter poke with strings. In a nutshell, it’s A defense move. Unless you’re going for a chip kill.

I actually will give up the punish just to condition them a bit to block high after f3. Because I neat little setup I’ve been using is condition with f32, eat the punish, then start doing f3, f42 into combo. It works surprisingly well. But I would do it sparingly and based on their meter. If they have full offensive meter it’s definitely not worth eating 400 damage or whatever. Also depends on MU and if they have used their KB’s. But trust, he actually has some clever 50/50’s. Another one is doing a meaty b3, or a meaty f4. Also you could do f3, into hop attack instead of f32. Really been working on mixups with Scorpion since his pressure is actually pretty good. But f3 into throw is not gonna be as good down the line once people get more used to it.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I actually will give up the punish just to condition them a bit to block high after f3. Because I neat little setup I’ve been using is condition with f32, eat the punish, then start doing f3, f42 into combo. It works surprisingly well. But I would do it sparingly and based on their meter. If they have full offensive meter it’s definitely not worth eating 400 damage or whatever. Also depends on MU and if they have used their KB’s. But trust, he actually has some clever 50/50’s. Another one is doing a meaty b3, or a meaty f4. Also you could do f3, into hop attack instead of f32. Really been working on mixups with Scorpion since his pressure is actually pretty good. But f3 into throw is not gonna be as good down the line once people get more used to it.

I don’t use f4 much unless I’m running Reborn. I’ve been playing around with the plus frames of s2 & 21. I think it’s something their worth using....ain’t found it yet, but I will lol.

My sparring partner reacts to f3 throw 8-10x with a neutral crouch and blows me up full combo.

I really gotta work f4 into my game though.

 

[Juggs]

I don’t use f4 much unless I’m running Reborn. I’ve been playing around with the plus frames of s2 & 21. I think it’s something their worth using....ain’t found it yet, but I will lol.

My sparring partner reacts to f3 throw 8-10x with a neutral crouch and blows me up full combo.

I really gotta work f4 into my game though.

F4 is basically like b1. You can hit confirm into combo, or go for safety with f423. It has less range than b1 BUT starts low and is a bit slower. I’ve been using it more and it’s actually pretty good. Especially considering not many Scorpion’s are utilizing it so the opponent always seems surprised by it tbh. Also the b3 overhead has surprisingly good range. Is the b3 OH safe on block? I forget.

But yeah, try out the f3 into f4 and f3 into short hop or mix in f32 at your own risk, lol

 

[Hor_PeT]

I don’t use f4 much unless I’m running Reborn. I’ve been playing around with the plus frames of s2 & 21. I think it’s something their worth using....ain’t found it yet, but I will lol.

My sparring partner reacts to f3 throw 8-10x with a neutral crouch and blows me up full combo.

I really gotta work f4 into my game though.

I actually will give up the punish just to condition them a bit to block high after f3. Because I neat little setup I’ve been using is condition with f32, eat the punish, then start doing f3, f42 into combo. It works surprisingly well. But I would do it sparingly and based on their meter. If they have full offensive meter it’s definitely not worth eating 400 damage or whatever. Also depends on MU and if they have used their KB’s. But trust, he actually has some clever 50/50’s. Another one is doing a meaty b3, or a meaty f4. Also you could do f3, into hop attack instead of f32. Really been working on mixups with Scorpion since his pressure is actually pretty good. But f3 into throw is not gonna be as good down the line once people get more used to it.

I tried F3 stagger into D3 as well with success. It beats standing block and late reacted pokes as well.
Opponent can react F3 throw with crouch but D3 into more pressure (S2, F3, throw) can mess it up.
Blocking low? F32 can beat it.

I agree with the fact that F32 needs to be shown as a real threat. I do it but not as my first move against an unknown opponent. But I tend to do a scrub teleport as well to check his match up knowlede as well lol. At least they think I am scrub.

The same with f423... It is punishable and has gap right but as a surprise effect it can work.
E.g. I did not punish F42 as I waited for F423 lol. And I could not find the 1 frame punish after F423 either.
Of course on absolute high level the opponent can make always the good solution.

Nowadays you are "lucky" if you have a partner who punishes teleport properly lol.
B3 is -5 so safe if it is not stuffed.

To be honest a lot of match up experience is required to beat all Scorpion's mixups properly. Of course if you always do 1-2 things (e.g. only F3 throw, F34) it is easier to deal with.

 

[OutworldKeith]

F4 is basically like b1. You can hit confirm into combo, or go for safety with f423. It has less range than b1 BUT starts low and is a bit slower. I’ve been using it more and it’s actually pretty good. Especially considering not many Scorpion’s are utilizing it so the opponent always seems surprised by it tbh. Also the b3 overhead has surprisingly good range. Is the b3 OH safe on block? I forget.

But yeah, try out the f3 into f4 and f3 into short hop or mix in f32 at your own risk, lol

B3 is safe. I use it meaty sometimes to blow up the neutral crouch.

 

[Juggs]

I tried F3 stagger into D3 as well with success. It beats standing block and late reacted pokes as well.
Opponent can react F3 throw with crouch but D3 into more pressure (S2, F3, throw) can mess it up.
Blocking low? F32 can beat it.

I agree with the fact that F32 needs to be shown as a real threat. I do it but not as my first move against an unknown opponent. But I tend to do a scrub teleport as well to check his match up knowlede as well lol. At least they think I am scrub.

The same with f423... It is punishable and has gap right but as a surprise effect it can work.
E.g. I did not punish F42 as I waited for F423 lol. And I could not find the 1 frame punish after F423 either.
Of course on absolute high level the opponent can make always the good solution.

Nowadays you are "lucky" if you have a partner who punishes teleport properly lol.
B3 is -5 so safe if it is not stuffed.

To be honest a lot of match up experience is required to beat all Scorpion's mixups properly. Of course if you always do 1-2 things (e.g. only F3 throw, F34) it is easier to deal with.

Hell yeah I need to use d3 more often. It’s basically d1 but slightly more range and a low. I feel like my Scorpion is pretty good but there’s a lot of stuff I’m not utilizing.

Also, y’all really should try out teleport as an anti air. It seems to work every time. Needs more testing though so I need y’all help.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Hell yeah I need to use d3 more often. It’s basically d1 but slightly more range and a low. I feel like my Scorpion is pretty good but there’s a lot of stuff I’m not utilizing.

Also, y’all really should try out teleport as an anti air. It seems to work every time. Needs more testing though so I need y’all help.

If TP is a true anti air...let the complaint threads begin lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Hell yeah I need to use d3 more often. It’s basically d1 but slightly more range and a low. I feel like my Scorpion is pretty good but there’s a lot of stuff I’m not utilizing.

Also, y’all really should try out teleport as an anti air. It seems to work every time. Needs more testing though so I need y’all help.

I always though it was matter of reaction time not to be stuffed.
Fastest "anti" air: block
Moderate: D2
Slowest, more preparation: teleport, trip guard.

I will check how fast you need to do it not to be stuffed.
E.g. Kitana's jump is pretty good it connects easily even on MID state on crouching opponent. Scorpion's jump ins are pretty "bad" you need to press it much later not to whiff and you are more prone to anti air.

If you hit the opponent too high in the air the amplify will not connect and you can not convert it. Waiting for ideal height is risk of stuff. But maybe there is an optimum.

More complain threads please.