Scorpion General Discussion

[Juggs]

I always though it was matter of reaction time not to be stuffed.
Fastest "anti" air: block
Moderate: D2
Slowest, more preparation: teleport, trip guard.

I will check how fast you need to do it not to be stuffed.
E.g. Kitana's jump is pretty good it connects easily even on MID state on crouching opponent. Scorpion's jump ins are pretty "bad" you need to press it much later not to whiff and you are more prone to anti air.

If you hit the opponent too high in the air the amplify will not connect and you can not convert it. Waiting for ideal height is risk of stuff. But maybe there is an optimum.

More complain threads please.

Trust, teleport is great AA

 

[Juggs]

I always though it was matter of reaction time not to be stuffed.
Fastest "anti" air: block
Moderate: D2
Slowest, more preparation: teleport, trip guard.

I will check how fast you need to do it not to be stuffed.
E.g. Kitana's jump is pretty good it connects easily even on MID state on crouching opponent. Scorpion's jump ins are pretty "bad" you need to press it much later not to whiff and you are more prone to anti air.

If you hit the opponent too high in the air the amplify will not connect and you can not convert it. Waiting for ideal height is risk of stuff. But maybe there is an optimum.

More complain threads please.

Actually, you can convert an air to air jump kick into a teleport not matter where it connects. You have to do the teleport later, meaning you don’t cancel into teleport immediately after the jump kick connects. I practiced this a lot actually. You can convert a JK, no matter what, into a teleport and it connects both the TP and the amplify.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Actually, you can convert an air to air jump kick into a teleport not matter where it connects. You have to do the teleport later, meaning you don’t cancel into teleport immediately after the jump kick connects. I practiced this a lot actually. You can convert a JK, no matter what, into a teleport and it connects both the TP and the amplify.

Yes I figured it too however I do not air to air jk too much as I felt it not too effective/strong with Scorpion (unlikely in MKX).

In MKX I always went to air to air war but here in MK11 I rather anti air from the ground and use jump for jump in (therefore I am rather air to aired by the opponent who jumps early JK into my face in the air).

Now I go to the lab and check that AA teleport lol.

EDIT in 5 minutes: OMG it is better than any other option. You can even start teleport "much" later than D2|S3|S4 and even hit the opponent "trip guarding" on the ground with it.
I tested it with Kitana godlike jump in.
Damage is a bit worse of course than concerting from D2/J3/S3/S4 as starter is missing but who cares if it works reliably (still 270 for 1 bar and even 350 for 2 bars lol).

What can I say...nice finding and big like. I will test it in real matches too where my reactions should be worse than in the practice room.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I just played a pretty good Reborn player with 180 ping (probably USA).
I was bodied by his flowchart first 5 matches then I figured and could turn the field.
It was insane stagger though I ate everything.
F42 tele cancel into 21 pressure lol. Stagger F4
F3 into B14 cancel tele 21 pressure. Everything.

It was good though but probably that ping allowed everything as I could not even block teleport in reaction.
He could not either just I did not do it.

But it was fun during the matches I learnt flawless block 212 lol..No F34 and F42 flawless block though. I did not even block F42 first 5 times.

21 is very good though as if you want to flawless block you dont block and plus frames can mess everything up.

Tele cancel was not really an issue I could react and poke out of it and also block teleports. But definitely a strong thing.

If you see it gg.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I dunno I quite often got clipped trying to aa teleport. Maybe it's worth the risk though, gonna try. In this game reacting to jump ins is really hard imo. It's like when they empty jump and hit the jump kick after I did the teleport, that shit always hits my face.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I dunno I quite often got clipped trying to aa teleport. Maybe it's worth the risk though, gonna try. In this game reacting to jump ins is really hard imo. It's like when they empty jump and hit the jump kick after I did the teleport, that shit always hits my face.

Maybe it is a valid counter. I wanted to try it today and against 1 kabal player I immediately teleported when I saw jumping (throw the disc lol) and he was literally devastated in the air.

I need to get used to it. I do not convert D2 either just slowly comes to my mind lol.

 

[Matix218]

When you do aa teleport (amp) can you still do f3, 11~spear (or 112)? Or it you catch them airborne do you have to change it to just f3~spear for gravity reasons? What aa teleport combo are you using as your bnb @Hor_PeT ?

 

[Hor_PeT]

When you do aa teleport (amp) can you still do f3, 11~spear (or 112)? Or it you catch them airborne do you have to change it to just f3~spear for gravity reasons? What aa teleport combo are you using as your bnb @Hor_PeT ?

Yes but need dash to be closer.

For 1 bar , amp tele, dash, F3, ender (112, 11xx spear, 212+4) 270 with 212+4
For 2 bars, amp tele, j3, amp tele, dash, ender. That is a bit tricky if you do it right the opponent just falls into your head into the ender lol. 350 with 212+4.
2nd bnb is not consistent enough to be practical if you hit the opponent in the air as it can be dropped easily.
So I use the one bar version unless I see if I hit the opponent on the ground but I have not enough experience to see if it is worth the effort or not.

I just started using AA teleport today.

Btw for 2 bars you can use amp spear into 212 KB as well it is 350 too with the DOT. And consistent. And BS setup lol. I try to use 212 KB every match and tend to do it when due to juggled opponent the 2 amp teleports are not consistent.

 

[OutworldKeith]

A few Skarlet tips;

* B3 xx Blood Tentacle jails.​

* F4,3 xx Blood Tentacle can be interrupted w/ 1,1 xx TP.​

* F4,3 xx Blood Tentacle can be punished w/ f3,2 on flawless block.​

​

 

[Hor_PeT]

A few Skarlet tips;

* B3 xx Blood Tentacle jails.​

* F4,3 xx Blood Tentacle can be interrupted w/ 1,1 xx TP.​

* F4,3 xx Blood Tentacle can be punished w/ f3,2 on flawless block.​

​

Nice I did not find Skarlet player yet online (I did not play that much yet lol) and I do not really play her anymore either.

Quality info though I will save it. I would try to flawless block F43 if I had to lol.
But I also did F43xx tentacle too blindly lol. Let me check that interruption for fun.

And yes easy peasy lol. F43 is -1 though so good stagger. Maybe that's why it is better to flawless block F43.
And I could punish F43 Blood tentacle flawless block even with S1/S2. Much easier not to miss it however from -16 you can do the 13F F3 too.

Poor girl. She was fun at first though. But I knew that she would be not my character when others can play neutral pretty well too.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Nice I did not find Skarlet player yet online (I did not play that much yet lol) and I do not really play her anymore either.

Quality info though I will save it. I would try to flawless block F43 if I had to lol.
But I also did F43xx tentacle too blindly lol. Let me check that interruption for fun.

And yes easy peasy lol. F43 is -1 though so good stagger. Maybe that's why it is better to flawless block F43.
And I could punish F43 Blood tentacle flawless block even with S1/S2. Much easier not to miss it however from -16 you can do the 13F F3 too.

Poor girl. She was fun at first though. But I knew that she would be not my character when others can play neutral pretty well too.

She’s definitely a good character though. Her s2 is one of the best checks in footsies. Her zoning is good, but obviously don’t mean squat against Scorpion.

I got a few matches against a decent Skarlet in Kasual. I’ll post later.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Nice I did not find Skarlet player yet online (I did not play that much yet lol) and I do not really play her anymore either.

Quality info though I will save it. I would try to flawless block F43 if I had to lol.
But I also did F43xx tentacle too blindly lol. Let me check that interruption for fun.

And yes easy peasy lol. F43 is -1 though so good stagger. Maybe that's why it is better to flawless block F43.
And I could punish F43 Blood tentacle flawless block even with S1/S2. Much easier not to miss it however from -16 you can do the 13F F3 too.

Poor girl. She was fun at first though. But I knew that she would be not my character when others can play neutral pretty well too.

This is unrelated, but Scorp can reversal punish most Fatal Blows with Spear or TP on block.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I need good tips against Geras and Erron Black.
Liu Kang is tough too, but in that matchup, it's usually me fucking up. I feel helpless against the 2 aforementioned though.

People that go 0-10 against me can switch to either and body me 20-0. Sometimes I can pull a win out of my ass against Erron, since he needs to slide to open you up, but Geras... Man that fucker...

I guess I'm just too slow in the head to break throws on reaction, gotta work on that then those matchups would be easier, or I should just play Reborn and yolo them with TP cancels.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I need good tips against Geras and Erron Black.
Liu Kang is tough too, but in that matchup, it's usually me fucking up. I feel helpless against the 2 aforementioned though.

People that go 0-10 against me can switch to either and body me 20-0. Sometimes I can pull a win out of my ass against Erron, since he needs to slide to open you up, but Geras... Man that fucker...

I guess I'm just too slow in the head to break throws on reaction, gotta work on that then those matchups would be easier, or I should just play Reborn and yolo them with TP cancels.

Erron Black Tips:

Liu Kang:
He’s not hard to deal with outside of his f4,3,u3 string. He has to fight you in close range, but you want to try to remain at mid range and control the pace of the match. The slower the better. F4,3,u3 is + on block, & you want to try and flawless block the last hit any chance you get. Flawless block makes it jab punishable. You can also interrupt after the 2nd hit. You want to show him you’re ready to interrupt every single time. Eventually he’ll try to catch you with Parry. You can wait out the active frames and full combo it.

Geras:
It’s a tough match point blank. You want to always u2 his body splash after a knockdown. It will beat it straight up. You want to learn to fuzzy his 1,1,1 / 1,1, xx low sand trap immediately. It will help a lot. His forward and back throws give him the same oki and advantage. Sometimes you gotta make a hard read and neutral crouch, but delayed wake up is your friend against Geras.

 

[spidey300]

Scorpion has the best special move in the game, bar none, in addition to his above average frames. Talking about other characters' tools does nothing to change Scorpion or where he stands right now. I'm not convinced he needs more than minor changes, but certainly no buffs to his frames.

There is nothing above average about his frames outside of f3 and d4. Maybe b1

 

[Hor_PeT]

This is unrelated, but Scorp can reversal punish most Fatal Blows with Spear or TP on block.

I did not check Fatal Blows block data just realized that sometimes I could punish it with some random move lol. Good point I will check it! I block many fatal blows...

I do not say Skarlet is bad I played pretty "well" with her and yes footsie was awesome. But the playstyle become pretty boring to me. Especially when I involved zoning and it is really difficult to skip it lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I need good tips against Geras and Erron Black.
Liu Kang is tough too, but in that matchup, it's usually me fucking up. I feel helpless against the 2 aforementioned though.

People that go 0-10 against me can switch to either and body me 20-0. Sometimes I can pull a win out of my ass against Erron, since he needs to slide to open you up, but Geras... Man that fucker...

I guess I'm just too slow in the head to break throws on reaction, gotta work on that then those matchups would be easier, or I should just play Reborn and yolo them with TP cancels.

Next time I will train you with my Erron Black - just do not expect too much lol - you can practice with less stress.
I "can play" Geras too but did not play more than 1 hour, yet lol (probably will not do more as I do not like it - but probably good enough for drunk basic play).

If you learn flawless block of Erron's F32 it is a half win I think. Fuzzy guarding slide can be good too however you can even react it.

I do not have too much match up experience with Scorpion against them though but I heard that Scorpion is a bit favored against Erron... I rather do not do theory crafting but I can see how it can happen. I may play ranked to face more Erron Black/Geras/Sonya Gods lol but I just do not like short "dominating" sessions - I learn more from longer sets.
In ranked anybody can do the best practiced flowchart and the match is over when you figure it out. And I imagine in ranked they rather want to win than "play" - can't complain it is a competitive game.

Yesterday Reborn match up was a good example I lost 0-5 and keep rematching then won 5-0. My zero match up knowledge improved during first 5 games lol - but probably just got to know the opponent.

 

[jcbowie]

There is nothing above average about his frames outside of f3 and d4. Maybe b1

Considering the power of those two staggers, the fact that they both have safe followups to mix in, and his very strong pokes, I would call his frames above average.

2,1 also sorely underutilized.

 

[Juggs]

Against someone doing an air projectile where they float in the air for a second, you can get a fun TP combo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1130965916685152257

It’s practical for certain MU’s. Also, the damage usually won’t be that high, I did this with Burning Spear buff just for the slight dmg boost on spear.

 

[spidey300]

Considering the power of those two staggers, the fact that they both have safe followups to mix in, and his very strong pokes, I would call his frames above average.

2,1 also sorely underutilized.

I would say slightly above average. I use 2 1 2 mostly the problem is highs in this game are a blow-up. You live or die by the high

 

[OutworldKeith]

Against someone doing an air projectile where they float in the air for a second, you can get a fun TP combo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1130965916685152257

It’s practical for certain MU’s. Also, the damage usually won’t be that high, I did this with Burning Spear buff just for the slight dmg boost on spear.

That combo was pure sex. I usually just TP and never combo in those situations. It usually happens against Subz and Kabal players lol.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I would say slightly above average. I use 2 1 2 mostly the problem is highs in this game are a blow-up. You live or die by the high

If you land d3 21 cannot be interrupted. I use 2 and 21 plus frames to safely walk back and whiff punish all the time.

 

[OutworldKeith]

ending a combo in 1,1,2 grants a safe hop. I use it to bait out u2 and punish. Most u2/u3 will get F/blocked if you block after you land.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I don’t use f4 much unless I’m running Reborn. I’ve been playing around with the plus frames of s2 & 21. I think it’s something their worth using....ain’t found it yet, but I will lol.

My sparring partner reacts to f3 throw 8-10x with a neutral crouch and blows me up full combo.

I really gotta work f4 into my game though.

If he's reacting to the f3, delay your button when he expects a throw. People who commit to ducking will lose to delay buttons, same way people who like to tech do.

 

[Hor_PeT]

If you land d3 21 cannot be interrupted. I use 2 and 21 plus frames to safely walk back and whiff punish all the time.

2, 21, 212 are pretty good.
It even jails from D1 too just pretty strict. I usually use it from jump in punches not from poke but against my masher friend a proper 21 after D1/D3 is a godsend hit confirmable plus on block follow up. (I rather kounter throw after pokes but it can be scoutes as well and S2 beats crouching opponents hard).
Easy to create thick throws/frame traps with that string not mentioning 212 which is good mind game as if the opponent wants to flawless block then he might get staggerred/thrown.

I used 21(4) in mkx a lot it is not different here (just here the S1 is 7F which is better punisher).

I played with a Scorpion player who used 21/212 a lot and I only could punish it because he did not mix it up properly lol. It was still difficult as +2 is a thing however not that scary as Scorpion does not have fast mid launcher.

The walk back whiff punishing method however is a possible bigger punish against mashers I will check it.
Walk back after staggers are generally good. I saw players walking back even after F3.
I got hit by F3 into B14 too (I wanted D1) but it was probably due to lag - but it can be legit too as if you wait for F34 and he does F3 B1 you do not have enough time to poke him out I guess.