What's new

Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

Honestly I think there are too many ways to get too quick of damage. Fatal blows feel kinda scrubbish, throws are super strong doing more damge and having crazy range but it feels like they have a larger tech window, krushing blows everywhere especially when fighting Geras or Sub Zero.

Basically what I said, too many ways to get quick damage. There is a stronger feeling of neutral in this game than the last which I thoroughly enjoy though. I'm enjoying the game.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I wouldn't say it's designed for casuals but they pretty much removed some elements because casuals couldn't handle them. Casuals can't do run cancel and casuals can't do long combos but hate getting hit by long combos
There are cancels in this game lol. The only difference is you don’t press block, just like mk9, probably the most beloved game in the series.

And also, combos just aren’t difficult. It’s funny to me that people equate combos with being an advanced game. Literally ANYONE can spend an hour in practice mode and learn combos.

There’s nothing casual about a game with emphasis on spacing and whiff punishing. And honestly, there’s some links in MK11 that are every bit as difficult as mkx combos (I’m talking optimals).

This game has emphasized the fact that most of the player base thinks that being able to execute damaging combos equals being “good” and it just doesn’t. It’s loterally the easiest part of the game.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
There are cancels in this game lol. The only difference is you don’t press block, just like mk9, probably the most beloved game in the series.

And also, combos just aren’t difficult. It’s funny to me that people equate combos with being an advanced game. Literally ANYONE can spend an hour in practice mode and learn combos.

There’s nothing casual about a game with emphasis on spacing and whiff punishing. And honestly, there’s some links in MK11 that are every bit as difficult as mkx combos (I’m talking optimals).

This game has emphasized the fact that most of the player base thinks that being able to execute damaging combos equals being “good” and it just doesn’t. It’s loterally the easiest part of the game.
Difficulty get thrown around a lot. I’m all for easier combos because I suck at execution. I will agree that combos in MKX are in general harder to execute when compared to MK11, but in the end it all comes down to muscle memory. Execution barrier becomes less and less of a factor when considering tournaments and professionals where all they do is practice and play, where casuals like me do not have the time to sit in the lab for a year trying to do f12b2 combos on Displacer Raiden. What MK11 brings to the table though is an increase complexity in the how you get your damage, something that only experience will be able to teach. Nothing in the lab can prepare you for the constant decision making you undergo in the neutral. The lab only helps you ready your options through training muscle memory. When every option has a counter then the truly complex game begins. The decision to go low risk with low reward or high risk high reward or any other option can only be made on the fly and differs between any 2 players. Perhaps it may be easier to capitalise on your opportunity once it arises, but in MK11 the game is to find ways to create opportunities.
 

AbeW

Noob
Difficulty get thrown around a lot. I’m all for easier combos because I suck at execution. I will agree that combos in MKX are in general harder to execute when compared to MK11, but in the end it all comes down to muscle memory. Execution barrier becomes less and less of a factor when considering tournaments and professionals where all they do is practice and play, where casuals like me do not have the time to sit in the lab for a year trying to do f12b2 combos on Displacer Raiden. What MK11 brings to the table though is an increase complexity in the how you get your damage, something that only experience will be able to teach. Nothing in the lab can prepare you for the constant decision making you undergo in the neutral. The lab only helps you ready your options through training muscle memory. When every option has a counter then the truly complex game begins. The decision to go low risk with low reward or high risk high reward or any other option can only be made on the fly and differs between any 2 players. Perhaps it may be easier to capitalise on your opportunity once it arises, but in MK11 the game is to find ways to create opportunities.
Guess you didn't read my earlier post. IT went like this.
"""Execution wise, MK11 is Scrublord's paradise. No contest. For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice. In MK11, it would take 2 days. You would see the same trend in other series as well, SF4 Vs SF5. SF5 is heavily dumbed down execution in comparison to SF4, for instance. It is possibly the new business model to attract new players in a genre with a shrinking player base. Very few players have the dedication to meet the challenge for high execution requirements of years past and that is the reason.

So many dudes came out salty against MKX because it was extremely defensively difficult. It took deep character knowledge and extreme meter management, for instance, to armor out of gaps, plus frames, etc in opponent pressure. You had to compromise on mindless offensive meter dependent damage/pressure and resort to highly optimized meterless damage if you wanted to save your meter for defense. In MK11 scrublord's paradise, scrubs wouldn't get overwhelmed and still have defense if they did not know how to fight a difficult war hardened veteran's game. : ) """

Execution is one component. In short, the main thing in MKX is character knowledge and optimal meter management for defense as the game is real stingy on meter as well as defensively oppressive All your opponent's plus frame pressure gaps, etc can be gutted if you knew how to maintain defensive meter. It meant you can't go mindless with meter dependent damage or meter dependent pressure. You had to throw out highly optimized difficult meterless damage and stagger artfully.

I don't know about you, but some of us played plenty of footsies/neutral in MKX. IF you were stupid with your neutral game you got trapped in a 50/50. In other words, you got thrown in a 50/50 if you already lost the neutral game. And yes, the game was fast and required quality reads if your reflexes weren't that good.


Here you go, this is what high level MKX looks like. Is this doable for the average scrub? NO. The average scrub would be extremely unhappy if he ran into gameplay like this.


 
Last edited:
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
I believe the opposite to be true. I believe this is their first true attempt at a viable 2D game. Its like a poor mans SFV. It still has issues like : Spaghetti code hitboxes and hurtboxes that visually make zero sense...Random hit priority system (why does Jk sometimes trade and other times doesnt with a standing jab for example)....basically things sometimes trade and sometimes dont. It feels random to me.

Archetype deaign feels random to me as well. Like why give a grappler a fullscreen low projectile or a rushdown toon a low and high fireball that trades with and beats actual zoners. Makes no sense.


Anime games and killer instinct can do this well ( mixing of archetypes) because they have a fluid 2d game engine in place. MK11 is essentially a slow paced 3d game (7-9 frame pokes ) with a block button that negates lots of traditional 2D mixups. This is the only fighter i play on a pad for this reason. The game feels feels unresponsive as if im fighting the opponent and the game (feels clunky and floaty)

Also...hitconfirming cant be done..at least for me..the game wants you to commit to a string or sequence which is super risky. Anyway thats my opinion. Not happy with mk 11
 
I think they need to open up the combos more or they will feel it in the DLC sales. Yeah This game had the best launch in history but how many of them already stopped playing or returned their game. I think NRS is stupid if they don’t open up this game more and add more foot speed. They don’t need a run button, they just need to give players more variety
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I believe the opposite to be true. I believe this is their first true attempt at a viable 2D game. Its like a poor mans SFV. It still has issues like : Spaghetti code hitboxes and hurtboxes that visually make zero sense...Random hit priority system (why does Jk sometimes trade and other times doesnt with a standing jab for example)....basically things sometimes trade and sometimes dont. It feels random to me.

Archetype deaign feels random to me as well. Like why give a grappler a fullscreen low projectile or a rushdown toon a low and high fireball that trades with and beats actual zoners. Makes no sense.


Anime games and killer instinct can do this well ( mixing of archetypes) because they have a fluid 2d game engine in place. MK11 is essentially a slow paced 3d game (7-9 frame pokes ) with a block button that negates lots of traditional 2D mixups. This is the only fighter i play on a pad for this reason. The game feels feels unresponsive as if im fighting the opponent and the game (feels clunky and floaty)

Also...hitconfirming cant be done..at least for me..the game wants you to commit to a string or sequence which is super risky. Anyway thats my opinion. Not happy with mk 11
Hit confirming cant be done in mk11? Since when?
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Guess you didn't read my earlier post. IT went like this.
"""Execution wise, MK11 is Scrublord's paradise. No contest. For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice. In MK11, it would take 2 days. You would see the same trend in other series as well, SF4 Vs SF5. SF5 is heavily dumbed down execution in comparison to SF4, for instance. It is possibly the new business model to attract new players in a genre with a shrinking player base. Very few players have the dedication to meet the challenge for high execution requirements of years past and that is the reason.

So many dudes came out salty against MKX because it was extremely defensively difficult. It took deep character knowledge and extreme meter management, for instance, to armor out of gaps, plus frames, etc in opponent pressure. You had to compromise on mindless offensive meter dependent damage/pressure and resort to highly optimized meterless damage if you wanted to save your meter for defense. In MK11 scrublord's paradise, scrubs wouldn't get overwhelmed and still have defense if they did not know how to fight a difficult war hardened veteran's game. : ) """

Execution is one component. In short, the main thing in MKX is character knowledge and optimal meter management for defense as the game is real stingy on meter as well as defensively oppressive All your opponent's plus frame pressure gaps, etc can be gutted if you knew how to maintain defensive meter. It meant you can't go mindless with meter dependent damage or meter dependent pressure. You had to throw out highly optimized difficult meterless damage and stagger artfully.

I don't know about you, but some of us played plenty of footsies/neutral in MKX. IF you were stupid with your neutral game you got trapped in a 50/50. In other words, you got thrown in a 50/50 if you already lost the neutral game. And yes, the game was fast and required quality reads if your reflexes weren't that good.


Here you go, this is what high level MKX looks like. Is this doable for the average scrub? NO. The average scrub would be extremely unhappy if he ran into gameplay like this.
I did read your post. I acknowledged your concern on execution. What is the difference between the deep character knowledge and meter management that is required to perform flawless block and punish with u2 into a combo that the opponent can breakaway out off? It’s the exact same scenario with meter management and match-up knowledge, except it is harder to time a press of a button within 4 frames of a move connecting that it is using a move that absorbs the damage and ignores the hitstun. How does that correlate to your comparison of difficulty? In MK11 you also need to manage your resources, if you breakaway then you forfeit your wake up options, same as MKX when you use a combo breaker you can’t armour out of gaps or disrespect your opponent or wake up. So where is the extra difficulty?

Sure, if anyone messes up in the neutral they eat damage, that’s a given in any fighting game. I know you play Raiden so I’ll use him as an example, in MKX, right up into the last build, once Raiden trapped you in the corner, you pretty much could not escape if he was using Thunder God. After every corner combo he would restand into b14 LRC 21, which is +21 and guarantees B2 and B3, an unreactable 50/50 since they are both 13 frames, sure B2 is unsafe but is leads to massive damage (up to half your life), but it’s also important to remember that someone used the glitch that EXdb1 connected meaty would act as 2 moves instead of one, leaving Raiden at massive advantage again and allowing to combo off his somewhat safe B2~shocker. Sure, eventually you’ll get breaker, which leaves you with no stamina so you can’t run, so you’re stuck in the same position again. You could save your meter with smart meter management, but for what? A block breaker that uses the same amount of resources? A wake up that gets stuffed by B32? Armoured reversal that you can’t do because no one is armouring out of +21 into a 13 frame normal unless we are bending some laws of physics.

In MK11, not many combos are able to end in a restand, even if they do they aren’t very plus, so once you have capitalised on your opportunity, it now falls on you to make a new one, you condition your opponent with your frametrap poke? You throw? You do a mid to stop them from mashing out? The HOW you make your opportunities is more important. Not saying that you get out of offense for free, look at the breakaway system. You give up resources to reduce combo damage. If you don’t give up your resources, you can wake up with those resources to get out of pressure, sure it could get stuffed, but then you have u2, or roll, again, every option has a counter. The decision-making is what makes the game complex.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Guess you didn't read my earlier post. IT went like this.
For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice.
That doesn't make the game design good. That has nothing to do with fundamentals. That's literally practicing timing windows mindlessly over and over again. That type of practicing for a year is much more scrubby than someone who quickly learns combos and has to focus on their spacing and reading their opponent and adapting to unexpected situations for a year instead of a daily combo practice routine.
 
Hit confirming cant be done in mk11? Since when?
Let me give an example. In sfv if I hit the oppoment with a medium jab counterpoke..I can visually confirm if it hit then land another jab into a link special cancel. Theres a 3 hit combo. In mk11 we have dial a combos not links or chains. My chain say is 2243. I cant hit 2..visually confirm it...then commit to 243. I have to dial 2243 in a sequence and hope it hits or hope to cancel into something safe.

Hope i make sense
 

THTB

When's Syzoth?
Guess you didn't read my earlier post. IT went like this.
"""Execution wise, MK11 is Scrublord's paradise. No contest. For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice. In MK11, it would take 2 days. You would see the same trend in other series as well, SF4 Vs SF5. SF5 is heavily dumbed down execution in comparison to SF4, for instance. It is possibly the new business model to attract new players in a genre with a shrinking player base. Very few players have the dedication to meet the challenge for high execution requirements of years past and that is the reason.

So many dudes came out salty against MKX because it was extremely defensively difficult. It took deep character knowledge and extreme meter management, for instance, to armor out of gaps, plus frames, etc in opponent pressure. You had to compromise on mindless offensive meter dependent damage/pressure and resort to highly optimized meterless damage if you wanted to save your meter for defense. In MK11 scrublord's paradise, scrubs wouldn't get overwhelmed and still have defense if they did not know how to fight a difficult war hardened veteran's game. : ) """

Execution is one component. In short, the main thing in MKX is character knowledge and optimal meter management for defense as the game is real stingy on meter as well as defensively oppressive All your opponent's plus frame pressure gaps, etc can be gutted if you knew how to maintain defensive meter. It meant you can't go mindless with meter dependent damage or meter dependent pressure. You had to throw out highly optimized difficult meterless damage and stagger artfully.

I don't know about you, but some of us played plenty of footsies/neutral in MKX. IF you were stupid with your neutral game you got trapped in a 50/50. In other words, you got thrown in a 50/50 if you already lost the neutral game. And yes, the game was fast and required quality reads if your reflexes weren't that good.


Here you go, this is what high level MKX looks like. Is this doable for the average scrub? NO. The average scrub would be extremely unhappy if he ran into gameplay like this.


Flawless block alone shits on any notion that MK11 is completely inferior to MKX in terms of execution.

Not saying either are above or below...one favors a stronger sense of hand dexterity and muscle memory, the other favors extremely tight timing.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Let me give an example. In sfv if I hit the oppoment with a medium jab counterpoke..I can visually confirm if it hit then land another jab into a link special cancel. Theres a 3 hit combo. In mk11 we have dial a combos not links or chains. My chain say is 2243. I cant hit 2..visually confirm it...then commit to 243. I have to dial 2243 in a sequence and hope it hits or hope to cancel into something safe.

Hope i make sense
you confirm with a cancel into special in this game at whatever the cancel point is if you see hit on the first attack of the string. If you see block, You let the string finish or cut it off at a stagger point depending on where your safety is at. Barakas 112 is an example where, if you see it hit, you can easily confirm into bf4 or let the full string end if you see it got blocked and you're +1.

That being said, I see why you say there aren't hit confirms because it's much different than the linking system w/ normals that's common in SF and KI and it is much less common to find strings that are hitconfirmable and useful in neutral. A lot of times you have to comit. Which encourages a more hesitant whiff punish style where you know you're going to connect because you saw the whiff.
 
Last edited:

Matix218

Get over here!
Let me give an example. In sfv if I hit the oppoment with a medium jab counterpoke..I can visually confirm if it hit then land another jab into a link special cancel. Theres a 3 hit combo. In mk11 we have dial a combos not links or chains. My chain say is 2243. I cant hit 2..visually confirm it...then commit to 243. I have to dial 2243 in a sequence and hope it hits or hope to cancel into something safe.

Hope i make sense
Yeah but nrs games have been like this since mk9. You can still hit confirm a string into a normally unsafe special for a combo. Also some strings (such as scorpions b143) you can confirm the string itself. For example i hit b14 all at once then i have enough time to confirm into ex teleport if the b1 hits or confirm into 3 to finish the safe block string if the b1 is blocked.
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
I only agree with the d2 part as I play a character with mostly high moves.

To question the person who said d2 can be thrown I'll give a example then.
I finish a combo with nut punch at +5 I see the d2 so I try to grab and get kb, so how do the d2 masher have enough time to duck and d2 in 10 frames after 5 frame advantage? What really has the priority here?
Ive been playing nrs games for ever please if I have bad info on this please enlighten me.
 

portent

Noob
@xKMMx I think you're mistaking high execution combos with for both skill and game design. They're all different.

First, look at any combo video by Desk. His execution is SICK! His combos are even sicker. This doesn't make him a good player, however. What it makes him, is a combo artist. His combos have zero practicality, and are simply meant to show what a game's mechanics can do when pushed beyond the limits of practicality.

Second, if you haven't already played it, please go spend some time with Super Street Fighter II Turbo. Combos are short, mind games are high, and you get punished HARD for mistakes. I'm not saying ST is without flaws, but there are many parallels between the way ST and MK11 play in terms of decision making, combo length, and neutral play. Do not, however, mistake this game for a game that is made for casuals, scrubs, or players without skill; yet another way in which is mirrors MK11.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Yeah but nrs games have been like this since mk9. You can still hit confirm a string into a normally unsafe special for a combo. Also some strings (such as scorpions b143) you can confirm the string itself. Fir example i hit b14 all at once then i have enough time to confirm into ex teleport if the b1 hits or confirm into 3 to finish the safe block string if the b1 is blocked.
I actually struggle with this confirm quite a bit because I'm buffering db during the block string and if I see block and just hit 3, I wind up getting teleport anyway so I have to confirm block with tele cancel which drains resources and puts me full screen. Do you have a better way to confirm this (obviously off of a jump in this isn't an issue)
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I actually struggle with this confirm quite a bit because I'm buffering db during the block string and if I see block and just hit 3, I wind up getting teleport anyway so I have to confirm block with tele cancel which drains resources and puts me full screen. Do you have a better way to confirm this (obviously off of a jump in this isn't an issue)
I am still practicing myself but i have found that you have to input the b14 all at once, like immediately (as quickly as you can) and if you do that it gives you enough of a window to input the teleport after confirming b1 has hit or still input 3 after you confirm b1 is blocked. I was practicing getting better at it last night with the training dummy set to block random kombo. The key for me is to do the b14 input super fast to give me enough time to input the teleport indepently rather than already starting to buffer it immediately after b14. Hopefully that makes sense lol
 
Yeah but nrs games have been like this since mk9. You can still hit confirm a string into a normally unsafe special for a combo. Also some strings (such as scorpions b143) you can confirm the string itself. For example i hit b14 all at once then i have enough time to confirm into ex teleport if the b1 hits or confirm into 3 to finish the safe block string if the b1 is blocked.
Yeah I get it. Vagrants explanation was on point. Now I know why some people RQ on me. Im playing SF and nickel and diming with empty jump throws...empty jump low pokes into throws...stagger pokes..stray hits....d2 anti airs...jks (they seem to win every trade).

Basically anything I can do to bypass the dial a combo system. Im riding on pure 2d fundamentals. Cant seem to click with the combo system. Feels counterintuitive if you've been playing 2d fighters for years..kinda feels like having to unlearn everything.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
If you consider yourself a good player and not a kasual, then you shouldn't lose to kasuals in any game, regardless for whom it's designed. I mean, what is the purpose of this thread honestly?
the purpose of this thread its exactly what i've been talking about.
This game is exposing people who actually likes to learn and who just want to complain.

I can make a new thread about every single complain without necessity that was made about this game.
This one its just another one to add to the list.
Calling others scrubs because they can't defeat such tactics, when everything he is complaining about in game has a counter for it.
 

xSkeletonSmasherx69

NOBODY CAN TRULY DEFEAT ME
The reason why combos feel so easy is because we don't have to run cancel anymore. You guys should be glad it is easier. Also, the OP is a noob I wouldn't take him seriously. He probably lost to someone who poked and uppercutted him to death. This game is more similar to mk9 than mkx.
 

LarSanity

My sword thanks you
You enjoy MKX, which means one can assume you enjoy the mindless 50/50s into silly damage. Sounds like you just like to do combos. I'll respond to each of your points:

1: Basically you are complaining that people are d2ing you out of your strings. There is a simple fix(for most of the cast anyways)....do a mid. If you have a mid string/starter, abuse that until they get the hint not to mash d1/d2. It keeps them honest, and nets you free dmg/combo/knockdown/KB/etc.
Wait whats a mid can I have 1
Oh wait I have f4 14 frames