What's new

Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Premium Supporter
Don't wanna get punished when the opponent breaks away?

  1. Cut your combos short/find combos that set you up for favorable positions even if the opponent drops out.
  2. Play characters that don't allow the opponent to drop out. Sub Zero and Jax come to mind.
  3. Zone. Can't break away if they aren't getting combo'd.
 

xenogorgeous

... Groovy.
Premium Supporter
the game is going in the right direction ..... it's natural, predictable and expected having some small group of players just whining and complaining about anything in the game ..... Jesus fucking christ , this ain't something new, happened in MK9, MKX and it's taking place again in MK11 ..... :p

comparing with broken stuff from MK9 and the ridiculous 50/50 (boring) fast pace rushdown gameplay of MKX, MK11 is much better gameplay wise .... adjustments will happen sooner or later through patches, let's have patience :D
 

K3M1K4l

Noob
It really isn't, all 'gimmicks' are casual friendly, but in a tournament setting that wouldn't work, you still need to learn the deeper and harder mechanics of the game to be really great at it and not everyone wants to put in that work. Some people don't bother learning combos because they're hard to do, no one is playing Cassie online because her combos are hard to get down. Honestly, dude, I'm 66 and 60 with Cass online, that's 126 matches and no mirror match so far.

So to make the statement that the game is made for casuals and easy is just completely wrong.

Throws are good because a lot of characters are unsafe, and at higher levels, people know how to block strings and throws are sometimes the online way to make your opponent fear blocking up close. D2's are 'good', but they're still unsafe. If you don't want to get anti-aired by them, don't jump (which again is more of an intermediate to advanced good habit). The breakaway rarely leads to punish attempts, I don't see it often, not like in the beta where you could punish Scorpion really hard. I feel like they changed it, or maybe his spear recovery? KB's are fine, again if you're at a lower level they either won't combo off of it or they'll drop it (I still do sometimes). If there's no combo off of it, well, don't get punished.
66-60... What type of people are giving advice on this site again??
 

Ck AeroVoid

this is An uninspired Custom Title
Don't wanna get punished when the opponent breaks away?

  1. Cut your combos short/find combos that set you up for favorable positions even if the opponent drops out.
  2. Play characters that don't allow the opponent to drop out. Sub Zero and Jax come to mind.
  3. Zone. Can't break away if they aren't getting combo'd.
too add on, Kollector has a few good combos that keep the opponent standing
 
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
You enjoy MKX, which means one can assume you enjoy the mindless 50/50s into silly damage. Sounds like you just like to do combos. I'll respond to each of your points:

1: Basically you are complaining that people are d2ing you out of your strings. There is a simple fix(for most of the cast anyways)....do a mid. If you have a mid string/starter, abuse that until they get the hint not to mash d1/d2. It keeps them honest, and nets you free dmg/combo/knockdown/KB/etc.

2: I'll admit throws are a bit strong for what they can lead to, especially requiring reaction(block release) and a guess(1 or 2), but those same d1s and d2s can blow them up. They like to throw all the time? D2 KB into combo. They'll either learn or they won't. Sides, frames are important in this game. You should be frame trapping mashers all match.

3: At first I thought Air Breaks were silly, but now that I see I can blow them the fuck up, i've no problem. I can't tell you how many times I've landed a combo with Noob/Sonya and FBed their Air Break.

4:Fatal's need to be a "use it, you lose it" mechanic. Damage is fine, being safe(ish) is fine. It shouldn't recharge on block though. That is silly. If your opponent is going to mash FB otg/whenever they have it, then just be patient and let them waste it. Then you have 10 seconds to blow up their d1/d2 mashing, and their throwing.

You legit just want to run up and do combos all day, and anything that stops you from doing that is "scrub tactics".
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
Premium Supporter
3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.


3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.
Having the air escape reset everything back to neutral is even worse than the current state of the air escape. You're contradicting yourself. Why would you want neutral reset? As it stands now, the opponent drops out of the combo right next to you, with ZERO wake up options. You're still in control, they've simply used up their defensive meter. Watching Summit of Time, you'll see that players are already adjusting their combos when they know an air escape is coming (i.e. throwing a D2 in for max damage when they know the opponent will use Breakaway).
 

AbeW

Noob
Execution wise, MK11 is Scrublord's paradise. No contest. For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice. In MK11, it would take 2 days. You would see the same trend in other series as well, SF4 Vs SF5. SF5 is heavily dumbed down execution in comparison to SF4, for instance. It is possibly the new business model to attract new players in a genre with a shrinking player base. Very few players have the dedication to meet the challenge for high execution requirements of years past and that is the reason.

So many dudes came out salty against MKX because it was extremely defensively difficult. It took deep character knowledge and extreme meter management, for instance, to armor out of gaps, plus frames, etc in opponent pressure. You had to compromise on mindless offensive meter dependent damage/pressure and resort to highly optimized meterless damage if you wanted to save your meter for defense. In MK11 scrublord's paradise, scrubs wouldn't get overwhelmed and still have defense if they did not know how to fight a difficult war hardened veteran's game. : )
 
Last edited:

Ck AeroVoid

this is An uninspired Custom Title
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
no but it was made beginner friendly if that makes sense?
 

Xentex

Noob
I'm a scrub and will always be a scrub because I'm old, have young kids, and a career. Doesn't leave me much time to spend in the lab and all that.

All that said, I think MK11 encourages and rewards me for improving as a player while still being accessible as a scrub.

I loved MKX, but honestly I got by just mashing out combos and hoping my combos hit them before theirs hit me. I would always say to myself "ok, enough of this spammy bullshit, I'm going to get better at playing footsies and zoning and learning everyone else's strings and where I can punish gaps, etc." I just never had the time (or skill maybe) to do it, and found that I could just fall back on 50/50s and mashing out combos. That was just where the emotional reward was optimal.

I think where MK 11 is changing my play is that the shorter combos, which can be broken and punished, reduce my ability to just rely on those as a crutch. But in exchange I have other options that can deliver solid damage without having to be difficult to execute from a button pressing or opponent-string memorizing (and 50/50 guessing) standpoint.

No game can be all things to all people, but so far I like MK11 the best out of the modern MK/Injustice games and all the others. (I love Super Smash Bros. Ultimate with my kids, but that's a whole other level of scrub friendly.)

I can't speak to whether MK11 will be able to hold a pro scene, but from the perspective of a casual (that's always aspired to be more than a button masher) this feels like the first in a while that's given me accessible tools to use my brain and limited skills to fight button mashers and not just combo mash myself.
 
The air escape thing is a whole new mind game, for once you need to use your brain not only to memorize and execute your combo, but to also think and make a read whether or not you wanna continue your combo. Besides, when you make a read and stop your combo during their breakaway - you get free oki, what the hell are you complaining about. For instance, in MKX its even worse, because the breaker pushes you all the way back to neutral and you get no advantage on your opponent at all.

P.S. I am surprised that after 500 matches you still get punished by breakaways.
I suck pretty badly at this game, but with almost 300 matches in, mostly on kompetitive, I don't think I've ever been punished by a breakaway lol
 

Rice

SIRO FOR MK11
Premium Supporter
What a casual statement.

The game isnt designed for primarly casuals and just different than MKX.

If it would be designed for casuals we would have auto combos and shit.
 

mrapchem

Noob
"I'mma do my mix, you gon' do yo' mix and if your mix beats my mix, then yo' mix got ta go!" - MKX's gameplay

By contrast, MK11 is on the precipice of being the very best NRS title created, once its idiosyncrasies are patched out.
 

CO-KANO

Im always streaming kano
MKX is designed for kasuals, i started kasual and i still konsider myself a kasual player but real kasual players do not want to play mk11 because its not for kasual players...my brother, brother in law, sister and girlfriend tried to play this past weekend, and they didnt get passed the first 6 seconds of a round simply because this game was not made for their player type.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Absolutely, but it also has a bunch of outdated mechanics that still have no systems in place to balance them:

50/50 throws- There's no skill to breaking them since they all look the same. It's like putting three bullets in the revolver and hoping you don't get one of those three bullets after the spin. Then you have two different types of commands for teching them. To make it even worse, Krushing Blows are added just for flair. Needing to place the new mechanic anywhere we can, just because.

Chip-Kill - Everything does chip (even teching a freaking throw lol). Chip is fine and so is Chip-Kill, but MK doesn't have a system in place to deal with it (last breath is useless against multi-hit attacks, gap-less strings and DOT). When low on health, a comeback is highly unlikely because neutral means absolutely nothing at that point all thanks to no countermeasures to chip/DOT. Think about it for a minute. You're being punished for doing what you're supposed to do when you're attacked (defend). Blocking/teching is a punishment in MK. It's rather weird to make performing a skilled comeback through meter management and good hand/eye coordination useless, but then add...

Fatal Blow - The MK-Blue Shell. Seriously? There's no freaking reason for this to exist except to rubber-band matches like Mario Kart. Who the hell wants to see artificial comebacks assisted by the damn game? This is the neutral destroyer. The game slows down to a crawl because of how momentum-changing they are and all for little cost of a player getting their @ss kicked.

Ridiculous Krushing Blow conditions - A large potion of the cast has these KB conditions that just scream casual. They are highly unrealistic in a pro match.
In the spirit of discussion, I shall attempt to answer your queries and ask some questions of my own.
1. Throws: Throws are designed to deter the opponent from blocking and playing too defensively. Hence is it unblockable. However they can also be neutral crouched and shorthop punished. A throw tech in this game is probably more about stage awareness than reactions. That’s probably the “skill” in reading the player’s tendencies. Throws are also one of the only ways of opening people up with certain characters. You aren’t meant to tech every single throw, just as you aren’t supposed to block every single mixup. Everything in a fighting game is strictly speaking a guess, by which the player chooses the best option that they believe will work. It is simply risk/reward in every decision you make.

2. Chip kills have been present in many NRS titles to date, and MK11 probably has the most ways to negate chip out of MKXL, Injustice 2 and MK11 (I cite these 3 since I’ve only seriously played these 3 NRS titles) projectiles can be jumped or crouched without taking damage. Flawless block negates chip and if you flawless block the first hit of a string it negates chip for the whole string (I think? Iirc the tutorial touched on this) Flawless block also enables invincible reversals and non-invincible launchers to straight up punish certain block strings (exchanging your small amount of chip damage with a comparatively large amount of damage you inflict on an opponent). There’s also the Last Breath mechanic that sacrifices stamina bar for survival, so no wake ups and no breakaways or rolls on last breath. Even if you’re on the ground, due to the new system of meter each character is given an invincible wake up that once again negates chip damage where armoured wake ups would serve nothing in preventing chip kills. Each character also has access to a fast armoured reversal that goes into a 30% unbreakable combo. Use it.

3. I would like to ask why you keep comparing FBs to the blue shell? I’m not sure about your reasoning beyond “it’s a rubber band mechanic” which I assume correlates to the ease of which the move is executed? If you are referring to the fact that it steals momentum back for the defending players, then it serves the same purpose as armouring through your minus frames in MKX into a 30% combo, only the opponent cannot breakaway. If you are referring to the fact that there are no workarounds and the move can be throw out randomly with little thought and the only one that can benefit is the one who executes the move, then I suggest to you look into how exactly the blue shell works, and whether it’s actually so OP. I made a post giving some details in another thread if you wish to take a look.

4. This I do not know enough to agree or disagree. I know that limited access to KBs limits the potential of some characters greatly, so perhaps you have my agreement there.

All in all, I do not believe that MK11 is catering for casuals, it’s not rush-down oriented with overhead-low guessing like MKX was, instead it’s a more calculated and slower-paced game, guesses are still there, though not as simple as overhead or low.
 

AbeW

Noob
Difference in difficulty: MKX Vs MK11
MK11: Volleyball
MKX: Sepak Takraw

Note: Sepak Takraw, a southeast Asian sport which is essentially volleyball played with your foot. Soft mthrfkrs beware! Play volleyball and be less salty, a.k.a more happy instead.
Do not dare attempt Sepak Takraw : )