Scorpion General Discussion

[spidey300]

i absolutely hate the scorpion vs cetrion matchup for now. then there's wonky shit with scorpion like b3 going over opponents

 

[Juggs]

Not many characters in MK11 have good meterless damage. You gain meter very easily anyway so it’s rarely an issue. Especially since with Scorpion you can play very patiently and keep away until you get your meter back. But with his f34 KB he can get some okay meterless damage, about 30% or so iirc.

Anyway let’s talk about neutral.

f3 and b1 are the go to neutral tools. They are also the go to footsie tools. Another great footsie tool is his D4, one of the better D4’s in the game.

f4 is okay to mix in there as it’s a low starter, but it’s a littler slower. Down the road the f42 low oh gimmick won’t be working very often if ever, so use this string sparingly.

The best options I’ve been using is f3 staggers, f32 raw, f32 canceling into burning spear or teleport, f34 as it’s safe and has good push back. There’s gaps in this but if you mix all these up it’s gonna be harder for them to punish it.

f3 on hit into dash is good. After the dash you have a lot of options, including a throw. f3 on block is only -2 iirc so f3 on block into throw is really good.

For anti airs he has several options. s3 is one of his best options. s3 into spear to extend the combo. s4 is also decent for longer range jump ins. You can teleport on reaction to jump ins as well. And obviously his uppercut (d2) is good as an aa as well.

He also can trip guard very well. Trip guarding is when you punish someone’s jump as they’re landing if they didn’t make contact with you. You can walk back into b14 combo starter. Since it starts with a back (b1), it’s very easy to do. f3 can also trip guard but b1 is definitely easier and more consistent, for me at least.

What have y’all been doing in neutral and in footsies?

 

[Shirakani]

well I mean aesthetically this is probably my 2nd favorite scorpion but mechanically he's pretty underwhelming

Definitely. Even in AI battle, put him up against some of the higher tier characters and watch him really have no option at all vs their strings.

 

[Shirakani]

Not many characters in MK11 have good meterless damage. You gain meter very easily anyway so it’s rarely an issue. Especially since with Scorpion you can play very patiently and keep away until you get your meter back. But with his f34 KB he can get some okay meterless damage, about 30% or so iirc.

Anyway let’s talk about neutral.

f3 and b1 are the go to neutral tools. They are also the go to footsie tools. Another great footsie tool is his D4, one of the better D4’s in the game.

f4 is okay to mix in there as it’s a low starter, but it’s a littler slower. Down the road the f42 low oh gimmick won’t be working very often if ever, so use this string sparingly.

The best options I’ve been using is f3 staggers, f32 raw, f32 canceling into burning spear or teleport, f34 as it’s safe and has good push back. There’s gaps in this but if you mix all these up it’s gonna be harder for them to punish it.

f3 on hit into dash is good. After the dash you have a lot of options, including a throw. f3 on block is only -2 iirc so f3 on block into throw is really good.

For anti airs he has several options. s3 is one of his best options. s3 into spear to extend the combo. s4 is also decent for longer range jump ins. You can teleport on reaction to jump ins as well. And obviously his uppercut (d2) is good as an aa as well.

He also can trip guard very well. Trip guarding is when you punish someone’s jump as they’re landing if they didn’t make contact with you. You can walk back into b14 combo starter. Since it starts with a back (b1), it’s very easy to do. f3 can also trip guard but b1 is definitely easier and more consistent, for me at least.

What have y’all been doing in neutral and in footsies?

As of the hotfix 1, b2 and f42 is now 'kind of okay' to just throw out so that's at least something. But... go fight say... a good Liu Kang, or Noob... Scorp will lose out most of the time. At the very very least, they need to make his b1 safe... that would be a fair buff. Liu Kang can spam f43 all day say until he gets in, and that's one of his main starters like in MKX... where's the fairness?

I know its a bit of an edge case but if you ask me, all of the cast need to have their MAIN combo starters to be reasonably safe to have everyone on sort of an even tier. Otherwise right now there are some characters that are just glaringly head and shoulders over the rest.

 

[Juggs]

As of the hotfix 1, b2 and f42 is now 'kind of okay' to just throw out so that's at least something. But... go fight say... a good Liu Kang, or Noob... Scorp will lose out most of the time. At the very very least, they need to make his b1 safe... that would be a fair buff. Liu Kang can spam f43 all day say until he gets in, and that's one of his main starters like in MKX... where's the fairness?

I know its a bit of an edge case but if you ask me, all of the cast need to have their MAIN combo starters to be reasonably safe to have everyone on sort of an even tier. Otherwise right now there are some characters that are just glaringly head and shoulders over the rest.

His b1 is safe if you finish the string. b143 I believe it is, it’s -5 iirc but might have a gap. At a baseball game rn so can’t test it.

 

[spidey300]

Not many characters in MK11 have good meterless damage. You gain meter very easily anyway so it’s rarely an issue. Especially since with Scorpion you can play very patiently and keep away until you get your meter back. But with his f34 KB he can get some okay meterless damage, about 30% or so iirc.

Anyway let’s talk about neutral.

f3 and b1 are the go to neutral tools. They are also the go to footsie tools. Another great footsie tool is his D4, one of the better D4’s in the game.

f4 is okay to mix in there as it’s a low starter, but it’s a littler slower. Down the road the f42 low oh gimmick won’t be working very often if ever, so use this string sparingly.

The best options I’ve been using is f3 staggers, f32 raw, f32 canceling into burning spear or teleport, f34 as it’s safe and has good push back. There’s gaps in this but if you mix all these up it’s gonna be harder for them to punish it.

f3 on hit into dash is good. After the dash you have a lot of options, including a throw. f3 on block is only -2 iirc so f3 on block into throw is really good.

For anti airs he has several options. s3 is one of his best options. s3 into spear to extend the combo. s4 is also decent for longer range jump ins. You can teleport on reaction to jump ins as well. And obviously his uppercut (d2) is good as an aa as well.

He also can trip guard very well. Trip guarding is when you punish someone’s jump as they’re landing if they didn’t make contact with you. You can walk back into b14 combo starter. Since it starts with a back (b1), it’s very easy to do. f3 can also trip guard but b1 is definitely easier and more consistent, for me at least.

What have y’all been doing in neutral and in footsies?

i mean you've pretty much covered the bases. I d1 into deathspin to check reversal d1s. with searing rage variation I use the 21 2+4 string and d1 to test their respect. it sometimes gets taxing chasing people down as there is a quite a bit of screen space so i do like 2-3 dashes into j2. there are some characters that can't punish max range d4 into death spin

 

[spidey300]

I honestly don't like to use b143 as it puts me to close to them on block and I usually end up getting thrown. i use it but sparingly

 

[iyerfly]

My Scorpion AI just did a brutality where he amplified spear and elbowed the opponent’s head off. Anyone know the requirements for that?

 

[Hor_PeT]

I played a bit Scorpion today as I always liked playing with him in mkx.
Well after playing Skarlet, Kabal, Cassie I feel him a bit weak in neutral compared to them. I can do the same just better.

The teleport can turn it to Scorp favor but I don't know.
It is fun playing with him though - thanks to the combo thread I could learn the core bnb in few matches lol.

In mkx I needed to practice many many hours to pull bnbs out. That's good in mk11 we can spend our time on other things.

 

[Juggs]

I honestly don't like to use b143 as it puts me to close to them on block and I usually end up getting thrown. i use it but sparingly

Duck it and get a D2 KB

 

[Shirakani]

@Juggs
What spidey300 said, b143 is safe but you lose the advantage of having that bit of range and effectively have to always d1 or d2 (if the d2 misses or if you misread the throw attempt, GG you). d1 is safe at least but now you're right up in their face which is not a friendly range for Scorpion.

If he had a special that was at least safe when amplified, cancelling the d1 into the amp special would be an option... but he doesn't even have that.

Its like many have said, yes you can play at the mid-neutral and play a punishment game... but its still just flat out unfair the safe tools that some other members of the cast have compared to him. I'll forever maintain he at least needs b1 to be safe and the spear to capture by default w/o amp before he can be competitively strong.

 

[Gixxerkid66]

As I’ve only played the the searing rage variation in ranked mostly. Can someone enlighten me on how they use the misery blade effectively?

 

[spidey300]

As I’ve only played the the searing rage variation in ranked mostly. Can someone enlighten me on how they use the misery blade effectively?

you just cancel every unsafe string into misery blade faint or misery blade poke

 

[Gixxerkid66]

you just cancel every unsafe string into misery blade faint or misery blade poke

Fair enough, that make it totally safe?

 

[Shirakani]

Yup, 100% safe. That's why Misery Blade was 'required' as it made the character able to actually USE strings without fear of retaliation, unlike now.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Scrub question, but what’s the input for the non attacking teleport in this game?

 

[iyerfly]

Scrub question, but what’s the input for the non attacking teleport in this game?

You have to have the teleport cancel move equipped then just hold down during teleport.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Am I the only one that feels like he's mentally challenged or something?

I can't for the life of me hit-confirm b+1,4,3.
It's fucking impossible for me. The cancel window is so small and the sword noise doesn't help either since it's hard to hear if it's hit or block.
I've played Shao Khan and Skarlet as well and I can hit-confirm their strings easily.

I don't know if it's the sound or the length of the move, but my old man reactions can't deal with this and without this string I don't even have to bother using Scorpion because everything would come down to doing random strings into hellport cancel and then hoping they didn't block.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Not many characters in MK11 have good meterless damage. You gain meter very easily anyway so it’s rarely an issue. Especially since with Scorpion you can play very patiently and keep away until you get your meter back. But with his f34 KB he can get some okay meterless damage, about 30% or so iirc.

Anyway let’s talk about neutral.

f3 and b1 are the go to neutral tools. They are also the go to footsie tools. Another great footsie tool is his D4, one of the better D4’s in the game.

f4 is okay to mix in there as it’s a low starter, but it’s a littler slower. Down the road the f42 low oh gimmick won’t be working very often if ever, so use this string sparingly.

The best options I’ve been using is f3 staggers, f32 raw, f32 canceling into burning spear or teleport, f34 as it’s safe and has good push back. There’s gaps in this but if you mix all these up it’s gonna be harder for them to punish it.

f3 on hit into dash is good. After the dash you have a lot of options, including a throw. f3 on block is only -2 iirc so f3 on block into throw is really good.

For anti airs he has several options. s3 is one of his best options. s3 into spear to extend the combo. s4 is also decent for longer range jump ins. You can teleport on reaction to jump ins as well. And obviously his uppercut (d2) is good as an aa as well.

He also can trip guard very well. Trip guarding is when you punish someone’s jump as they’re landing if they didn’t make contact with you. You can walk back into b14 combo starter. Since it starts with a back (b1), it’s very easy to do. f3 can also trip guard but b1 is definitely easier and more consistent, for me at least.

What have y’all been doing in neutral and in footsies?

All that’s good stuff, I definitely need to use raw f3 more.

Often times in the neutral I find myself doing literally nothing and I feel so in control, I’m loving this character

 

[Hor_PeT]

Am I the only one that feels like he's mentally challenged or something?

I can't for the life of me hit-confirm b+1,4,3.
It's fucking impossible for me. The cancel window is so small and the sword noise doesn't help either since it's hard to hear if it's hit or block.
I've played Shao Khan and Skarlet as well and I can hit-confirm their strings easily.

I don't know if it's the sound or the length of the move, but my old man reactions can't deal with this and without this string I don't even have to bother using Scorpion because everything would come down to doing random strings into hellport cancel and then hoping they didn't block.

B1 xx tele vs B143? that's difficult yeah.

F3 hitconfirm is more important but it is difficult too (it is even faster recovery). At least F3 is a good stagger - without read-confirm it is still good.
But without hitconfirm it is just a high risk - high reward move as F32 should be blocked if F3 is blocked (unless the opponent is staggerred enough with F3, F34 flawless block).
Unfortunately B2 hitconfirm is kind of pointless as -10F point blank range is almost the same as -25 lol - you should be punished. Against a player who can punish it it is better to cancel the B2 to DS at least more chip before punish lol. Or do the tele and play with amplify lol.

I enjoy playing Scorpion but without being able to hitconfirm the moves I only can hitconfirm the guaranteed whiff punishes-punishes. Everything else is read.

But maybe that's the design. You do not risk with OH/LOW but if the opponents press buttons or not lol. 50/50 too just the odds are not 50% to Scorpion I assume.

I did not try the teleport cancel variation but if the teleport cancel is safe (or even better?) hitconfirming during the teleport is much easier (= you have a bit more frames and press the cancel or not lol)... It might be silly I did not try it.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Yeah I thought the idea behind b+1,4,3 is to confirm visually if b+1,4 hit and then cancel that into teleport or spear or just hit the 3 if it's blocked.
Nice to know that I'm not the only one who has trouble doing that.

Really weird design, especially since every other character I tried has easy to confirm strings.
Also the range on b+1 is really terrible, so it's not even a great whiff punishment tool imo.
I guess Scorpion isn't for me in this game.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Yeah I thought the idea behind b+1,3,4 is to confirm visually if b+1,3 hit and then cancel that into teleport or spear or just hit the 4 if it's blocked.
Nice to know that I'm not the only one who has trouble doing that.

Really weird design, especially since every other character I tried has easy to confirm strings.
Also the range on b+1 is really terrible, so it's not even a great whiff punishment tool imo.
I guess Scorpion isn't for me in this game.

Oh, B14.. That's not that hard but personal preference. For me Cassie's F41 was a bit more difficult.
I was fool no point hit confirming B1 as it is punishable. With B14 hit confirm it is more user friendly lol.

And I just checked B143 has no gap. That's a real hitconfirm possibility after B14 not always be punished lol.
That's good news and my previous post is not valid anymore.
However in the practice room if the B1 is flawless blocked the string will not come out lol.

I like to play safe for me F3 stagger into F34 krushing blow, B13 hitconfirm and B2 whiff punish might be the way to go.
And take risks on read when I have 2 bars of defensive meter and/or why not.

F423 is not really good for me as -8on block point blank will be easy punish against a good player (if he has 7F jab!) and F42 has gap too. Opponent will block low most of the times - when not D4 will do the work. But I did not play too much with him either to be expert.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

f+4,2 is super easy to flawless block too.

Still ok to throw out here and there. If you don't overuse it people might not be ready.

 

[Hor_PeT]

f+4,2 is super easy to flawless block too.

Still ok to throw out here and there. If you don't overuse it people might not be ready.

Just bear in mind that against a potent opponent it can be full combo punishable with 7F move long term against most of the chars as -8 on block. So okay not flawless blocked but still punishable.
It probably matters of match up to. Not everybody can punish hard for 7 frames.

I prefer D4 in that range. Most of my opponents crouch blocks when they want to block. If not - B1 can do the same job.

Today I will focus on B14 hitconfirm play lol.

Yesterday my friend ate F32 crouching blocking 10/10 lol. He naturally block low against Scorpion, yet.
Probably I would eat it at first.

Nasty string as if the opponent wants to poke into f3 stagger (or even D2), he will keep the button down...

For me the best stagger in the game so far. Fast recovery and dangerous follow up..not like Kitana's "stagger".

 

[Hor_PeT]

I had time to play several online matches with Scorpion.
To me F3 is absolute beast I could not even start using B1 as I was so obsessed by F3 stagger (into throw), F34 and F32 when the opponent was staggerred enough and I saw that he just ducking.

I did not analyze the oki game yet but it looked like after any BnB ender (spear, 212+4) and throw it was perfect oki game for another F3 "pressure".

I had the most fun and success with him so far the characters I played (besides Skarlet, Kabal, Kitana) but just played 30 matches
Well I was Ninjutsu main for long time and I have Dejavu... Hopefully the bad memories will not come out, either (struggle against pressure and Kotal Kahn )

And yes now the teleport/B2 is way safe lol.
But no problem I played with Kung Lao I had no idea what's going on and then checked he always poked me out after -13 string lol - good stagger.

I was thinking about using the teleport cancel version but F32 and 212+4 and buff is very good for him. F3 stagger is dangerous enough with F32 in the package.
However Teleport cancel can make him pretty crazy lol. Like it was in MKX. Maybe the recovery is even better on it. B2xxtele and hitconfirming during the teleport is viable option. But overall I am pretty satisfied with the 2nd variation.

 

[KutlessMyth]

It's about that time to start the new age of Scorpion!

Here's some of his frame data:

Tournament Variations:

1. Reborn: Demon Slam, Hell Port Cancel (2)
2. Searing Rage: Death Spin, Death Spear Kombo, Burning Spear

Cancel adv? How do you cancel B1???