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Scorpion General Discussion

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
That's the ONE thing that irritated me and unfortunately made me decide to make him a secondary right now as opposed to my usual maining him. How tf you gonna make my spear stun with meter burn but you got people like kabal or kollector who can just outright stun you free? That was just the icing on the cake considering his frames. I saw the tournament variants too and I'm like......assuming (since again game isn't here yet and thousands of us haven't gotten to lab) that he's gonna be low tier right out the gate. But seriously. 27 years of the spear being high and unsafe on block but giving stun.....and they change it. Now it's just a glorified full screen throw without using bar.
Lol, not even. A full screen throw would be unblockable at least. It's High, Unsafe, and pointless as even in combos Teleport is superior for damage. It only has certain VERY specific uses that are still outclassed by other tools he has and literally every other character that has a similar tool does it better with LESS damage scaling too.
 

Zhidoreptiloid

Watcher from the sky
Safe you say? Which one is that? I'm not seeing it. Scorpion is as unsafe as you can get. It's their design philosophy for the character. They even nerfed his spear to make him even less viable compared to others who ALL got to keep their meterless free hits. Kabal has multiple, Sub-Zero, and Kitana etc. literally everyone else amd some new ones kept theirs. Not complaining about that they should have them. But he should've as well and he needs to be a little bit safe-ER/ish, lol. I was told by 16bit the spear was nerfed as part of the neutral/footsies shift and requiring meter for exrending combos being universal. Scorpion seems to be the ONLY character this applies to though. He looks and plays like he was designed for a completely different state of the game but never went back to and fixed when they made everyone else LEAGUES better. Even with Misery Blade he will be low tier for sure unless he gets an update to rejoin the others in the modern system, lol. He will still be my main and I will make him work for me even if I am playing with a handicap. I'm used to it.
Yes. Like only he have mechanic "launch only for meter and you can be punished for your combo by air-escape". Others just ignore 1 or both rules (like kabal, for example). Spear is worst special in the game, it damage to scorpion more, than he damage to enemy by it, lol
 

Execute

Noob
Yes. Like only he have mechanic "launch only for meter and you can be punished for your combo by air-escape". Others just ignore 1 or both rules (like kabal, for example). Spear is worst special in the game, it damage to scorpion more, than he damage to enemy by it, lol
Scorpion is going to be absolutely garbage for anything resembling competitive play.

BUT spear is mediocre to useful. You're using it wrong.



His 2 bar BnB does not include the spear.
B12 amp TP, jump kick amp TP, ender.

You get more damage with two TPs, and you're not punishable by drop out.



What his spear IS good for is an okay combo that isn't able to be dropped out of.

B12/ F42 Amp spear, string Amp spear, ender. Something like 24% iirc.
 

spidey300

Warrior
I just don't understand the design method behind scorpion. They actually nerfed him and I have yet to see any improvements on his frame data. I pray to God there's a day 1 patch that fixes him but I'm not seeing it. He's supposed to be the ryu of the game but they're turning him into season 2 SF5 ryu and that ryu was straight dookie butter
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
There isn't... Scorpion ATM literally is the SF5 Ryu of the game. He needs BIG buffs to be viable :/

He needs his meterless spear capture back, at the very absolute least.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
You guys all know already? I dont think anyone has had enough time to declare that the character is garbage.
 

spidey300

Warrior
I don't know if it's just scorpion but he can't f.34 krushing blow mid combo and f.34 krushing blow removes spear buff
 
I don't know if it's just scorpion but he can't f.34 krushing blow mid combo and f.34 krushing blow removes spear buff
They changed it to where you have to punish with that specific move in order to get the krushing blow. So no more D2 krushing blow into F34 krushing blow.
 

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Has enough time really passed to call this character garbo already? He's feeling pretty solid to me on initial impression, especially his deathspin variation. I can probably agree that his spear should be able to catch without meter though, even if they scaled the combo down after a spear cap.
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
Has enough time really passed to call this character garbo already? He's feeling pretty solid to me on initial impression, especially his deathspin variation. I can probably agree that his spear should be able to catch without meter though, even if they scaled the combo down after a spear cap.
Reason he's garbo is because he has practically no safe moves at all. Yes he can do some damage but... other characters naturally get more for less in comparison. But nevermind damage, without any real safe moves, how's he expected to even GET IN or apply pressure in the first place? His best move outside of Misery Blade is his Hellport which forces anyone too projectile happy to respect him... 2nd best move is Demon Dash, which is best used as a finisher as it too is unsafe unless you get a hard read and punish.

Also, spear... it should be a meterless capture with scaling... the way it is now is you need to spend meter AND it scales HARD... Its just all too unfair compared to a number of other characters who get to put up big numbers meterlessly.
 

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Reason he's garbo is because he has practically no safe moves at all. Yes he can do some damage but... other characters naturally get more for less in comparison. But nevermind damage, without any real safe moves, how's he expected to even GET IN or apply pressure in the first place? His best move outside of Misery Blade is his Hellport which forces anyone too projectile happy to respect him... 2nd best move is Demon Dash, which is best used as a finisher as it too is unsafe unless you get a hard read and punish.

Also, spear... it should be a meterless capture with scaling... the way it is now is you need to spend meter AND it scales HARD... Its just all too unfair compared to a number of other characters who get to put up big numbers meterlessly.
Speaking specifically about his tourney deathspin variation, his b14 is his main combo starter (aside from 11 or 21 at close range) which should be hit confirmed into tele or b143 on block to keep him safe. Other than that he has his f32 which should rarely be committed to, the lingering threat of overhead to low and the fact that his f3 is only -2 on block leaves options open, f3 into grab, f3 into f4, f3 into b14. His death spin special is an 11 frame mid that can punish other characters advance on reaction and covers both the air and the ground. It's actually quite difficult for other characters to get in, and if they try and zone, it seems like most characters projectiles can be punished on reaction with his teleport this time around. Time will tell, but I think it's abit premature to call him trash on release day.
 
I think i am more mad with the face that you can't cancel b123 and b121 anymore. Whats the reason behind this i can't find an answer
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
Speaking specifically about his tourney deathspin variation, his b14 is his main combo starter (aside from 11 or 21 at close range) which should be hit confirmed into tele or b143 on block to keep him safe. Other than that he has his f32 which should rarely be committed to, the lingering threat of overhead to low and the fact that his f3 is only -2 on block leaves options open, f3 into grab, f3 into f4, f3 into b14. His death spin special is an 11 frame mid that can punish other characters advance on reaction and covers both the air and the ground. It's actually quite difficult for other characters to get in, and if they try and zone, it seems like most characters projectiles can be punished on reaction with his teleport this time around. Time will tell, but I think it's abit premature to call him trash on release day.
Well looking at the hotfix notes where everyone except Kitana got nerfed further, it may wind up being fair after all if EVERYONE is going to be horrendously unsafe. I'll admit that his b14 is a great string, especially since you have 2 hits to hitconfirm and can hit 3 at the end if it winds up blocked. But he needs more than that... everyone's going to just block low by default and the only discourager he has is an overhead that is a 'one hit done' with no options after it.

If he had just one more string that had a safe option on block which he could 50/50 with, he'd be a fair competitor.


I think i am more mad with the face that you can't cancel b123 and b121 anymore. Whats the reason behind this i can't find an answer
No one else can either. They took away almost all the 3 button string cancels.
 

KyleKasady

Hellspawn
Well looking at the hotfix notes where everyone except Kitana got nerfed further, it may wind up being fair after all if EVERYONE is going to be horrendously unsafe. I'll admit that his b14 is a great string, especially since you have 2 hits to hitconfirm and can hit 3 at the end if it winds up blocked. But he needs more than that... everyone's going to just block low by default and the only discourager he has is an overhead that is a 'one hit done' with no options after it.

If he had just one more string that had a safe option on block which he could 50/50 with, he'd be a fair competitor.
It seems to me that there is not a lot who can actually have 50/50. Only Sub-zero comes to my mind right now, the rest have OH options, but they don't link to anything much.
It's NRS' main focus to remove 50/50 all day all night like in MKX, they want you to punish whiffs and play smart footsies. Altough I agree it's not for everyone. Some char should have options to open up. At first I was mad about D'vorah's OH f4 (13 startyp and -8 on block), that was crazy, but with hotfix she is fair.
 
I’m messing around with Misery Blade in practice mode atm and Misery Blade cancels now take one bar of defensive meter. I didn’t see that on the hotfix notes so that’s interesting.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I feel scorpions strings are fine so far.

B14 xx heliport on confirm or b143

F3, f34 and f32 are good for staggers. The pushback on f34 is huge compared to beta.

F423 is not as easy to block as people make it seem.

B2 is a great whiff punish tool and can be canceled for s combo.

I think you guys are jumping the gun.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Yeah @Scoot Magee I’m Actually digging Searing Rage tournament variation. I really am weary of posting tech or combos tho, don’t want them randomly hotfixed for no reason lol. But seriously, this variation isn’t bad at all and does some pretty good damage with the burning spear buff. Like 40% 1 bar stuff.
 

Zhidoreptiloid

Watcher from the sky
B2 is a great whiff punish tool and can be canceled for s combo.
Agree, I lab scorp yesterday and started to understand purpose of b2 and his -16 minus.
That is WHIFF PUNISHER ONLY (or punish heavy minus with pushback). You DONT use that move in neutral, in neutral you use f3 and b143. But, if enemy is whiffed, you have his most ranged attack, that you cancel in TP or spear, it fast (15 frame mid. b1 is 14 fr and much shorter).
B2 is not ussless and that is character design.

F3, f34 and f32 are good for staggers. The pushback on f34 is huge compared to beta.
f32 is not stagger, f32 is high-risk high-reward move, but only when you sure about your enemy, that he will 100% press buttons after f3 (f3 throw will teach them press buttons after f3. f3 -2 on block) or enemy try to Flafless Block f3*4 on second hit. In other scenario it -25 on block and super-punishable. YOLO move.

F423 is not as easy to block as people make it seem.
f423 have gaps between all 3 hits f423, but people wait to OH, so you can d3 after f4.
 
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I thought about it and i actually don't care that tournament variation is bad it is not like we gonna be professional players. I am playing ranked and really enjoying misery blade
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
So... Here I was feeling my man Scorpy was weak and I wasn't doing too well in Towers. So I turned the AI preset tendency for Kombos up to max and decided to let the AI go at it for a bit.

Holy shit, where did I think Scorp was WEAK?! Its more like... us mere mortals have this inherent problem of being human called 'reaction time' :p

Give any character NRS's famed bullshit AI that does nothing but frame clash moves with the equivalent of perfect reactions and god damn it wrecks face. Even unsafe moves 'inherently' become safe if you're using them on 0ms reaction to anything :p

tl;dr = the character's fine, we all suck :p
 

Zhidoreptiloid

Watcher from the sky
Scorpion is pretty balanced now. No need to buff or nerf him.
Misery blade destroy general design of the character: original design is b1 and f3 - footsie and punishment tools, b2 - whiff punisher only. With mysery blade b2 now is a footsie tool, because it make it safe and you shit b2, like an idiot
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
So after the hotfix, looks like B2 is now -10 on block as opposed to -16 and F42 is also now -10 on block... They're still unsafe, but no longer HORRENDOUSLY unsafe so we can now use these two moves with a little more impunity.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
the one really nice thing he received was spear buff along with death spin. he now has a 47% 2 bar combo.
The most I could get with no krushing blows or fatal blows with 2 bars was 45%. How’d you get 47%?