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The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I appreciate your point of view and for sure agree that it’s good to help people and turn the conversation productive when possible.

I sometimes think it’s a fruitless effort and have personally engaged that argument many times so I think my patience with it is pretty low at this point.
The biggest issue is the scrub has got to actually want to get better. If they couldn’t care less about how good they were, competitive fighters, etc, then yes it’s pointless. But I’d wager that a lot of scrubs want to do all of those things. And I want to help remove the scales away from their eyes, just as the scales were removed from mine. Because it’s like unlocking your hidden potential in an anime or some shit, it’s glorious.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Fking RIP, bois. I had the flu before I read this one, but now I'm actually sick.
 
The biggest issue is the scrub has got to actually want to get better. If they couldn’t care less about how good they were, competitive fighters, etc, then yes it’s pointless. But I’d wager that a lot of scrubs want to do all of those things. And I want to help remove the scales away from their eyes, just as the scales were removed from mine. Because it’s like unlocking your hidden potential in an anime or some shit, it’s glorious.
again with the "scrub" insult . who are you again ? never heard of you ... the so call umk3 god who got destroyed by REO who barely played the games.. go back on your twitter group screenshoting our forum abusing your moderator role to shame people. comeback when you know the definition of scrub.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
again with the "scrub" insult . who are you again ? never heard of you ... the so call umk3 god who got destroyed by REO who barely played the games.. go back on your twitter group screenshoting our forum abusing your moderator role to shame people. comeback when you know the definition of scrub.
Well that escalated quickly
 
Well that escalated quickly
its personal . he posted a screenshot of me saying that the match of bee and sonic was boring... because i find the match boring even though im a huge fan of both players . he called me a scrub and shamed me on a twitter group . anyway his a bitch and a dude who think his some legend or someshit hes a nobody a forum moderator talking shit

im pretty sure , shaming people is againts the code of conduct of this forum and hes abusing his moderator status to do it. instead of reporting him to the owner im calling him out exposing his ass
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
its personal . he posted a screenshot of me saying that the match of bee and sonic was boring... because i find the match boring even though im a huge fan of both players . he called me a scrub and shamed me on a twitter group . anyway his a bitch and a dude who think his some legend or someshit hes a nobody a forum moderator talking shit
I see
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Honestly it’s not that hard to get in on spammers. If they’re literally just hitting the same special over and over with no thought then simply walking forward and blocking will get you in and get them cornered.

However if they are genuinely tripping you up and manage to kill you with only projectiles and not an actual combo, not only does that mean you had to mess up a fuck ton of times to be hit that much, but you were zoned out and were outplayed. It happens to me and happens to everyone, it’s frustrating as shit, but that doesn’t make the strategy not legitimate. Good zoning is frustrating to fight but that’s the point, it’s a perfectly viable and respectable strategy.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Honestly it’s not that hard to get in on spammers. If they’re literally just hitting the same special over and over with no thought then simply walking forward and blocking will get you in and get them cornered.

However if they are genuinely tripping you up and manage to kill you with only projectiles and not an actual combo, not only does that mean you had to mess up a fuck ton of times to be hit that much, but you were zoned out and were outplayed. It happens to me and happens to everyone, it’s frustrating as shit, but that doesn’t make the strategy not legitimate. Good zoning is frustrating to fight but that’s the point, it’s a perfectly viable and respectable strategy.
Even I agree that it’s legitimate. People didn’t see my point. It’s my personal preference that a fighter should be an actual fighter in the game, not a marksman or shit. If he has projectiles that’s great ( Liu Kang, Johnny, Mileena, Buzzsaw) but if the character is made more for projectiles it’s more than frustrating it keeps me away from even selecting him. But that’s just my taste.
And stop calling these people scrubs for fuck’s sake. People can’t be good at everything.
 

Burn2019

Noob
Honestly it’s not that hard to get in on spammers. If they’re literally just hitting the same special over and over with no thought then simply walking forward and blocking will get you in and get them cornered.

However if they are genuinely tripping you up and manage to kill you with only projectiles and not an actual combo, not only does that mean you had to mess up a fuck ton of times to be hit that much, but you were zoned out and were outplayed. It happens to me and happens to everyone, it’s frustrating as shit, but that doesn’t make the strategy not legitimate. Good zoning is frustrating to fight but that’s the point, it’s a perfectly viable and respectable strategy.
And that’s simply where opinions differ. Spam is spam, whether it’s from an ignorant player repeatedly hitting machine gun, or a player hitting machine gun -> baiting into an anti-air. The dirty truth is these two different types together are both boring, and just because one is easier to beat than the other doesn’t change that. Just because one knows how to punish you up close when you jumped too eagerly doesn’t change that.

You call it respectable because the game allows it. I call it encouragement to hit START and QUIT and FIND NEW OPPONENT because the game allows that too.

Sometimes I’ll be in the mood to treat this “respectable gameplay” as a personal challenge against tedium. Mostly nowadays though, I’ll just decide to not waste my valuable (and limited) free time on gameplay and visuals that lack any entertainment.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
And that’s simply where opinions differ. Spam is spam, whether it’s from an ignorant player repeatedly hitting machine gun, or a player hitting machine gun -> baiting into an anti-air. The dirty truth is these two different types together are both boring, and just because one is easier to beat than the other doesn’t change that. Just because one knows how to punish you up close when you jumped too eagerly doesn’t change that.

You call it respectable because the game allows it. I call it encouragement to hit START and QUIT and FIND NEW OPPONENT because the game allows that too.

Sometimes I’ll be in the mood to treat this “respectable gameplay” as a personal challenge against tedium. Mostly nowadays though, I’ll just decide to not waste my valuable (and limited) free time on gameplay and visuals that lack any entertainment.
Is that you, LTG?
 
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aj1701

Noob
I never once claimed it wasn't easy to deal. My biggest problem is: the tedious nature that comes with dealing with it.
Well I'm sure there are players out there who thing dealing with rushdown is tedious. Its not a good argument to try and discredit the strategy. The goal is to win, and if a strategy is tedious to your opponent, you'd be a fool not to exploit it.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I think I found my zoning mantra:

“All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you...Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.”

It's from a pretty hardcore book about warriors.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
again with the "scrub" insult . who are you again ? never heard of you ... the so call umk3 god who got destroyed by REO who barely played the games.. go back on your twitter group screenshoting our forum abusing your moderator role to shame people. comeback when you know the definition of scrub.
Scrub isn’t necessarily used as an insult, just an observation. There’s very clear distinctions that makes someone a scrub. Try reading the article I posted from Sirlin, it should put things into perspective for you. As I said, I, like 99% of people who are new to competitive gaming, start out with the scrub mentality.

Here’s the article once again: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

I taught REO UMK3. He’s a quick learner, but it took him awhile to where he was among the best players, but shorter than most. He didn’t “barely play the game”, not sure where that baseless accusation came from. So, he knew my gameplay better than anyone there. He was my toughest opponent at the tournament because of that fact (even tougher than Crazy Dominican and Marv, the 1st and 2nd place finishers). And so, REO beat me in a 2/3 tournament match in a single tournament. Try going to one sometime, I’m sure you’d love it and you would do great. Also Not sure why you would get so incredibly defensive over the word “scrub”. It’s very clear you have no idea what it means. For future reference, resorting to ad hominems shows immense mental weakness, especially when you attribute anyone using the term “scrub” as a personal attack on yourself or even others.

I think it would be tremendously beneficial for yourself if you took the time to do some self reflection. Just know it’s okay, I’m here for you to help. Even though you have a horrible attitude, all things can change with the right determination.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Scrub isn’t necessarily used as an insult, just an observation. There’s very clear distinctions that makes someone a scrub.
I agree, and I really like that article/book by Sirlin. Patrick Miller also wrote a nice free fighting game guide and touches on Scrubs: http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/07/learn-how-to-play-fighting-games-with-our-free-beginners-guide-ebook/

I think part of the problem is that too often "scrub" does get used as an insult, or as a way to describe someone's skill instead of their attitude.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I agree, and I really like that article/book by Sirlin. Patrick Miller also wrote a nice free fighting game guide and touches on Scrubs: http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/07/learn-how-to-play-fighting-games-with-our-free-beginners-guide-ebook/

I think part of the problem is that too often "scrub" does get used as an insult, or as a way to describe someone's skill instead of their attitude.
Yeah exactly, it’s primarily an attitude. It actually has zero to do with how “good” someone is. It’s a very common misconception, the term is also often misused. And Sirlin explains it very well, and his article is what helped me get rid of the scrub mentality. Like before I first read his article, I denied passionately being a scrub (back around 2008 I believe). Once I read his part about “introducing the scrub”, I was like... “well shit, I guess I do have the scrub mentality”. And everything changed as far as my outlook on competitive gaming.
 

Lokheit

Noob
I'm kinda neutral (I like switching playstyles) but I'm breaking a lance here against the "zoning is spamming" argument.

Online is full of rushdown spammers that pick a character with OH to Low strings or viceversa string and repeat it over and over to beat scrubs. and inflate their winning percentage. Once you got them on the defensive end of things or reacted properly to their 2 strings gameplan punishing them, they didn't know what to do.

A good rushdown player would know how to revert that situation back on his favor.

Same apply about ranged spammers, if you get to them they don't even know how to block or punish and you rip them apart, a good zoner would make your way in harder, control space properly and react once you get in.

There is spam in both playstyles, experts of both playstyles will use those tools too, but they will know how to play and react when you get them out of their comfort zone.

The main reason people rage against zoning spamming more than rushdown spamming is the same that applies for card games aggro vs. control: one beats you faster so it's less frustrating as you don't lose so much time on a defeat.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
I'm kinda neutral (I like switching playstyles) but I'm breaking a lance here against the "zoning is spamming" argument.

Online is full of rushdown spammers that pick a character with OH to Low strings or viceversa string and repeat it over and over to beat scrubs. and inflate their winning percentage. Once you got them on the defensive end of things or reacted properly to their 2 strings gameplan punishing them, they didn't know what to do.

A good rushdown player would know how to revert that situation back on his favor.

Same apply about ranged spammers, if you get to them they don't even know how to block or punish and you rip them apart, a good zoner would make your way in harder, control space properly and react once you get in.

There is spam in both playstyles, experts of both playstyles will use those tools too, but they will know how to play and react when you get them out of their comfort zone.

The main reason people rage against zoning spamming more than rushdown spamming is the same that applies for card games aggro vs. control: one beats you faster so it's less frustrating as you don't lose so much time on a defeat.
I think they are frustrated because it’s easier to learn zoning (yes, I think it is, you don’t need to break your thumbs with run cancels or block strings) than rushing with your character, and term 50/50 explains the probability of successful hit. Not saying it’s easy, I’m saying it’s easier, for those who like to take words out of context.
 
Scrub isn’t necessarily used as an insult, just an observation. There’s very clear distinctions that makes someone a scrub. Try reading the article I posted from Sirlin, it should put things into perspective for you. As I said, I, like 99% of people who are new to competitive gaming, start out with the scrub mentality.

Here’s the article once again: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

I taught REO UMK3. He’s a quick learner, but it took him awhile to where he was among the best players, but shorter than most. He didn’t “barely play the game”, not sure where that baseless accusation came from. So, he knew my gameplay better than anyone there. He was my toughest opponent at the tournament because of that fact (even tougher than Crazy Dominican and Marv, the 1st and 2nd place finishers). And so, REO beat me in a 2/3 tournament match in a single tournament. Try going to one sometime, I’m sure you’d love it and you would do great. Also Not sure why you would get so incredibly defensive over the word “scrub”. It’s very clear you have no idea what it means. For future reference, resorting to ad hominems shows immense mental weakness, especially when you attribute anyone using the term “scrub” as a personal attack on yourself or even others.

I think it would be tremendously beneficial for yourself if you took the time to do some self reflection. Just know it’s okay, I’m here for you to help. Even though you have a horrible attitude, all things can change with the right determination.
nah man you not going to project that shit on me . while you go out of your way to insult and shame people cause they have an opinion that is different from you . you dont know what a scrub is. a scrub is someone who refuse to adapt or complain that a strategy is cheap or unfair. i never did that i played local pros like hayatei and got destroyed i didnt complain i thanked him and since then i grinded to get why i lost im not a guy who rage quit or find excuses you just insulted cause you though i wouldnt find out.

you sir are a scrub and someone who claim is way better than he actualy is .i would mop the fuck out of you in inj2 or mkx anyday i challenge you even in mk11 lets see what excuse you will come up with after beat you.
 
Are you clueless at creating and doing combos?
Are you useless defending against opponents?
Do you want not to care that there's someone else in the game trying to play?
Do you want to put the minimal effort spamming 2 moves and lie to yourself you're actually thinking when to press them so you don't feel braindead?

Then zoning is for you!

Pick a broken character and just spam the same move over and over.
Ignore anything and anyone that is in the game with you, let them sort it out.
Just walkback all day and enjoy the show.

Make sure to post on the forums that it's a legit strategy so you can sleep at night while you try to remember if your opponent was an AI, a human, or even in the game at all.

Join us now.
Can you not play a fighting game without a run button?
Can you not open players up using neutral and spacing?
Can you not define throw baiting?
Can you play a game without thinking?
Can you not go .2 seconds without mashing a button?
Can you not walk stop in and know when you can gain distance?

Then mindless 50/50 characters with a run button and safe teleport are for you.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
nah man you not going to project that shit on me . while you go out of your way to insult and shame people cause they have an opinion that is different from you . you dont know what a scrub is. a scrub is someone who refuse to adapt or complain that a strategy is cheap or unfair. i never did that i played local pros like hayatei and got destroyed i didnt complain i thanked him and since then i grinded to get why i lost im not a guy who rage quit or find excuses you just insulted cause you though i wouldnt find out.

you sir are a scrub and someone who claim is way better than he actualy is .i would mop the fuck out of you in inj2 or mkx anyday i challenge you even in mk11 lets see what excuse you will come up with after beat you.
I’d pay to see it
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Can you not play a fighting game without a run button?
Can you not open players up using neutral and spacing?
Can you not define throw baiting?
Can you play a game without thinking?
Can you not go .2 seconds without mashing a button?
Can you not walk stop in and know when you can gain distance?

Then mindless 50/50 characters with a run button and safe teleport are for you.
Is there a character with safe teleport in MKX? Just asking
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Once you got them on the defensive end of things or reacted properly to their 2 strings gameplan punishing them, they didn't know what to do.
It's always a strange mentality to me. Like in their mind, it's ok that they spam the same couple moves into the same combo all match, but the second they start getting zoned out they rage quit and act like I'm some kind of jerk for not letting them walk in and do whatever they want?
 

methademic

UPR Methademic
It's always a strange mentality to me. Like in their mind, it's ok that they spam the same couple moves into the same combo all match, but the second they start getting zoned out they rage quit and act like I'm some kind of jerk for not letting them walk in and do whatever they want?
Because you are undermining the hard hard work, the instense 15 minutes they spent in the lab learning two strings into a combo. Now let them do it, meanie
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I think they are frustrated because it’s easier to learn zoning (yes, I think it is, you don’t need to break your thumbs with run cancels or block strings) than rushing with your character, and term 50/50 explains the probability of successful hit. Not saying it’s easy, I’m saying it’s easier, for those who like to take words out of context.
I'll agree somewhat with this. It's very easy to spam zoning, especially if the opponent doesn't know how to handle it. I think zoning has a pretty sharp curve though as you start to face better competition.