The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[STB Sgt Reed]

I agree. I think my hatred for zonning is really just those few who spam, and not actual zonners. I have zero patience when I play and I had to work a lot on not always pressing buttons and waiting to punish the opponent. Injustice 2 and SFV helped a lot in that aspect.

Working on patience is the key (that and knowing what is jumpable, duckable, etc and the timing of it) I'm guilty myself (and could always level up in this regard), even as a Sub Zero player who's job was to sit and wait for them to come to you. If I lose the life lead, I get antsy af and I'll lose to full auto jacqui because I'll be jumping like an idiot to get in, then get frustrated af because I'm getting blown up, and then lose and get even more pissed. That's what they want to happen!

What I try to do is just focus on one thing: slowly walking them down.

Don't think about whether you're going to win or lose, don't even look at the health bar. Just focus on walking, ducking, and not jumping your way in. Once that becomes second nature, then running into random full auto jacqui's, dr. fates, etc won't matter and you'll just laugh at them, beat them tf down and have fun doing it.

 

[Juggs]

I've always said this, I've always been demonized, but I'll say it again: even if you say you know combos with your character and you purposely spam from across the screen, you're a scrub.

I don’t think you know what that word means.

 

[Juggs]

The thing is, there’s an entirely different mindset for those that are competitive players who are playing to win, and those that are casuals who are playing for fun.

To a competitive player, it is absolutely irrelevant whether someone thinks what they’re doing “takes skill” or not. Someone with the playing to win mentality does everything they can to win. Doesn’t matter if you introduce your own made up parameters on what is “boring” or “cheap”. A scrub can label pretty much anything that beats them as “boring” or “cheap”. This actually negatively effects the progression of the scrub, without the scrub realizing it.

I was once a scrub too. And what I would suggest would be reading at least two things. An article I made here on TYM years ago, and most importantly David Sirlin’s book/article on playing to win. Sirlin’s online book goes far more in depth than my article, and is unquestionably worth the read.

My article: https://testyourmight.com/threads/tips-on-becoming-a-better-player-part-1-how-losing-helps-you-get-better.3674/

Sirlin’s article: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

 

[Vslayer]

Working on patience is the key (that and knowing what is jumpable, duckable, etc and the timing of it) I'm guilty myself (and could always level up in this regard), even as a Sub Zero player who's job was to sit and wait for them to come to you. If I lose the life lead, I get antsy af and I'll lose to full auto jacqui because I'll be jumping like an idiot to get in, then get frustrated af because I'm getting blown up, and then lose and get even more pissed. That's what they want to happen!

What I try to do is just focus on one thing: slowly walking them down.

Don't think about whether you're going to win or lose, don't even look at the health bar. Just focus on walking, ducking, and not jumping your way in. Once that becomes second nature, then running into random full auto jacqui's, dr. fates, etc won't matter and you'll just laugh at them, beat them tf down and have fun doing it.

That’s so true, the most frustrated we get the less careful we are and we kinda forget logic and instead of wanting to fight back we just want it to end so we literally have a death wish.

 

[aj1701]

That's true, maybe I just have PTSD from full-auto Jacqui, and maybe it's a personal preference too. I just don't feel like it's something I would feel proud to do or something that I want to watch others do.

I only played online, but I think that FAJ would have been fine to deal with if not for the lag of online play. It was similar stuff in MK9 that lead me here so I could learn how to beat "spammers."

 

[SUPAHJD]

I just don't get the mentality of calling people a "scrub" for saying "man, this game play sucks."

Yes, literally staying across the screen and hitting one special over and over again is boring and sucks. If you get the win, more power to you.

But the idea of acting high and mighty because you got the win by doing something that's genuinely unfun when the point of gaming is to at least try to have fun is a bit wack.

That's all in my own opinion though.

 

[Marlow]

Spamming on the other side of the screen. Because it's easy to do, it can be rewarded against a more casual gamer or newbie and that's that.

How is this any different than someone walking forward and spamming the same special move or string into a combo all match? It's not like high damage combos in NRS games are that difficult.

 

[SUPAHJD]

How is this any different than someone walking forward and spamming the same special move or string into a combo all match? It's not like high damage combos in NRS games are that difficult.

Two people running each other down with combos sees more precise blocking, things like grabs coming into play, seeing people start from low blocks to neutral, seeing who has the better combo and who can successfully time and pull off their string better.

Two zoners toss shit at each other.

 

[Blizer]

Two zoners toss shit at each other.

Depends on the player.

If the players are spamming sure.

If they are both good players, its probs one of the most exhausting matches you can see, as they are both trying to bait a reaction from the other, so that they can punish them (A good Summoner Quan Chi for example can punish Grandmaster sub if he reads wrong, or messes up how he uses the klone for pressure.)

 

[Marlow]

Two people running each other down with combos sees more precise blocking, things like grabs coming into play, seeing people start from low blocks to neutral, seeing who has the better combo and who can successfully time and pull off their string better.

Two zoners toss shit at each other.

That's all on the skill of the players, it has nothing to do with their chosen playstyle. You can spam with rush down just like you can spam with zoning.

 

[Marlow]

Depends on the player.

If the players are spamming sure.

If they are both good players, its probs one of the most exhausting matches you can see, as they are both trying to bait a reaction from the other, so that they can punish them (A good Summoner Quan Chi for example can punish Grandmaster sub if he reads wrong, or messes up how he uses the klone for pressure.)

I saw a Cyborg mirror match on WOTG last summer, it was one of the craziest most hype matches I've seen. Both players were solid, full screen footsies at it's finest.

 

[aj1701]

I just don't get the mentality of calling people a "scrub" for saying "man, this game play sucks."

Yes, literally staying across the screen and hitting one special over and over again is boring and sucks. If you get the win, more power to you.

But the idea of acting high and mighty because you got the win by doing something that's genuinely unfun when the point of gaming is to at least try to have fun is a bit wack.

That's all in my own opinion though.

I mean, if that's all it is, it should be easy to be then. I felt the same way when I first came here during MK9, and with just a different attitude and some strategies from others on this site, the brainless spammer became an easy win. Then you find the good zoners, and that becomes a fun challenge.

 

[Blizer]

Yeah, A good Zoner vs Zoner matchups are some of the best, as its all about reading your opponent, and punishing their mistakes.

Good Reason why Kabal was a terror in MK9, he had zoning tools, and an excellent punishing ability (Dash), while having one of the best corner games in an MK game not counting deception.

 

[SUPAHJD]

I mean, if that's all it is, it should be easy to be then. I felt the same way when I first came here during MK9, and with just a different attitude and some strategies from others on this site, the brainless spammer became an easy win. Then you find the good zoners, and that becomes a fun challenge.

I never once claimed it wasn't easy to deal. My biggest problem is: the tedious nature that comes with dealing with it.

Depends on the player.

If the players are spamming sure.

If they are both good players, its probs one of the most exhausting matches you can see, as they are both trying to bait a reaction from the other, so that they can punish them (A good Summoner Quan Chi for example can punish Grandmaster sub if he reads wrong, or messes up how he uses the klone for pressure.)

This is pretty fair. This is also what I've been asking for.

I think the problem that I'm trying to adress is that, people are so negative towards the term "zoning' because nowadays, it just is easily associated with spamming projectiles and that's all it is to it. Now I can understand this may be misguided but I'm trying to show why people think promoting what we view as zoning is a bit suck ass.

 

[villainous monk]

At what point do you stop though and see all these posts from the "masses" that are apparently commenting against zoning and say "Huh, ya know what? Maybe there is something wrong with how NRS is doing their zoning.".

One more time, there's nothing wrong with traditional zoning. There was a time in NRS where it was a bit fine. It was used as a technique that took skill.

Until I genuinely feel like someone can tell me why, I can not genuinely see why one would say "oh it takes just as much skill as rush down and combos!" Because that doesn't make sense to me. The literal NRS way of zoning is to smack the opponent to the other side of the screen or back up, and spam a "special" move that keeps the player away. No one is saying that it works great all the time. We're saying it's beyond tedious, repetitive, and annoying. Or in no way shape or form fun.

Meanwhile. "wel ur jus mashin button!" is actually a player who took the time to learn a combo with a decent carry that took some time to learn having to do tedious shit because "ITS COMPLETELY VALID" Superman over here wants to laser beam from the other side of the screen nonstop.

Of course people are gonna react negatively to this thread "Aha! They got rid of running! That'll show players for trying to approach us on the other side of the screen!". If zoning at least seemed a bit more complicated than what it is nowadays in their games, I'm sure this shit would be fine. But it's not. It's now just a combination of easy to input moves at a very annoying rate over and over again standing away.

And no, trying to fault people because "oh you're just a newbie casual scum!" "alt!" "go back to gamefaqs!" doesn't exactly disprove shit. Explain to me why the hell in MKX [I'll at least give you that because as said, it definitely wasn't as strong there. Still tedious] and Injustice 2 which is zoning hell to me, zoning is just as much as a valid and skilled method as run down and combos. How does going to that other side of the screen and inputing these easy "special moves" the same as chasing you down on the other side of the screen and learning a juggling combo that takes precise timing to input and carry with.

Your missing a lot of points.

There are/is in game mechanics that help you out from zoners in previous NRS games. It's up to you to realize this & use, save, bait out your opponents resources and use the environments available as well.

If you lose your positioning during the round and find yourself full screens eating projectiles. Then it's on you. You lost your advantage.

You now have to use either your resources (armour, roll, interactables, meter, mind games, baiting out your opponents back into the neutral ect) or the in game mechanics to deal with zoning. You learn very quickly to work your way in.

Try playing Boxer in SF against all the shoto's and you'll see your argument holds no water. Or Atrocitus vs Batman, Starfire, Deadshot, Darkside, Green Arrow ect. Those two charaters are anti zoners who have to use everything they have to get in on zoners but played right with the tools given they can win very well against them.

There's a lot of shook anti zoners out here. Understandably because of that they either see it as chucking projectiles or being the one stuck in the corner.

Again that's your fault for not conditioning your opponent in the first place. Along with a bucket of other reasons as well.

Also for not using the tools to keep you in the range your opponents.

This has NOTHING to do with NRS zoning. Only your lack of response, experience, knowledge of the match ups or charaters. Nothing ANYMORE different then in any other fighters or games for that matter.

It's all Excuses. Because it's easier to complain and cry.

Instead of taking the time you need to learn and going into the lab.

 

[Blizer]

Dealing with Spamming early on can be incredibly aggrevating and frustrating.

Honestly, its up to the player if they want to learn the matchup, and how to deal with the spamming

 

[HazeDaze]

Zoning is for cowards

 

[Cashual]

I don't completely disagree with you. There's always going to be idiots regardless of what is posted/recorded. But those types threads and videos need to continue to happen to show those who have even a sliver of an open mind that there are ways around this stuff. And even for people like myself who are just bad. It helps the community get better, even if it's only a few players.

Adding more into the competitive community is always better than just laughing and telling them they are stupid.

That and keep on zoning, the players who want to win bad enough will make their way around to listening.

I don’t see anyone in here asking for specific matchup advice, or asking for help. I see people dismissing zoning as brain dead spamming and how it ruins the game.

I’ve never seen anyone on this site, or even fucking YouTube comments for that matter, get roasted or called scrub or whatever when they actually ask for help.

Here’s 2 posts, you tell me which kind is in this thread :

“Zoning in NRS games is broken, it’s cheap to stand back and throw projectiles full screen”.

“I’m just kind of frustrated with zoning and it makes me not want to play. What do I do to get around Sektor’s up rockets and straight rockets”?

Edit: I meant to reply to your post prior to this one where you were talking about people calling people scrubs instead of helping

 

[Cashual]

I just don't get the mentality of calling people a "scrub" for saying "man, this game play sucks."

Yes, literally staying across the screen and hitting one special over and over again is boring and sucks. If you get the win, more power to you.

But the idea of acting high and mighty because you got the win by doing something that's genuinely unfun when the point of gaming is to at least try to have fun is a bit wack.

That's all in my own opinion though.

How could you possibly lose to someone doing one special over and over again? That’s not a thing except at the absolute lowest level.

And yea, that is a stupid and boring way to play, but outside of the first month when do you encounter that? If you’re playing in ranked, take the easy W and keep it moving.

Play competitive sets with good players you meet online. If you play for a few weeks, add people to your friends list as you come across people you enjoy playing, you could have 50 people to play and never encounter that play style again.

MK11 is going to feature a tiered match making system. So, if you play well, level up, you’ll never match with some bum ass “spammer” again.

You’re a prime example of someone whining just to whine which is why you’re getting the response you’re getting.

What are you hoping to accomplish? Just here to vent? Trying to pressure NRS to redesign their game? MKX didn’t feature OP zoning and the vast majority of characters were not of the zoning archetype, I’m still waiting for you to explain to me what characters you were constantly running into that were just keeping you out spamming a single special from full screen. I posted the character usage stats from last month and maybe 1 out of the top 10 most used characters could be considered a zoner.

 

[M2Dave]

Zoning is for cowards

Only MK9 Smoke players are cowards! You should know better.

 

[Darth-Nero]

To a competitive player, it is absolutely irrelevant whether someone thinks what they’re doing “takes skill” or not. Someone with the playing to win mentality does everything they can to win. Doesn’t matter if you introduce your own made up parameters on what is “boring” or “cheap”. A scrub can label pretty much anything that beats them as “boring” or “cheap”. This actually negatively effects the progression of the scrub, without the scrub realizing it.

And that's exactly why the game should be balanced around the competitive scene. Ppl support NRS games as an esports because they want to watch the games being played at the highest level of play, Allowing spam meta to be dominant enough that it becomes the to-go-to meta in the competitive scene is punishing the audience and severely hurt the longevity of the game.

Spam meta doesn't necessarily refer to projectile characters, It means the collection of low skill high reward strategies that are cheap and boring by definition. That includes, and not limited to, (D1 trident rush, 3 different types of ez projectile spam, ez coin flips [50/50 on top of 50/50]..,etc)

Ppl nowadays solely target zoning when they talk about spam meta because, let's face it, it's the worst type of spam and biggest hype killer in the competitive scene. Yet again, If the zoning takes skill ppl have no problem with it. We've never heard anyone complain about mk9 shang tsung, He was a zoning character yet watching wound cowboy playing him was the hypest of hype Because:

(a) It's ez to block and advance
(b) nobody could use him the way wound did
(c) High skill ceiling zoning mechanics that requires lots of grinding to be effective


In conclusion, The relation between ease of use and the value rewarded is the key here. That's what defines the tools used as boring, cheap and spammy or acceptable, respectable and skillful. Only the highest skill player should win at the highest level of play.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I don’t see anyone in here asking for specific matchup advice, or asking for help. I see people dismissing zoning as brain dead spamming and how it ruins the game.

I’ve never seen anyone on this site, or even fucking YouTube comments for that matter, get roasted or called scrub or whatever when they actually ask for help.

Here’s 2 posts, you tell me which kind is in this thread :

“Zoning in NRS games is broken, it’s cheap to stand back and throw projectiles full screen”.

“I’m just kind of frustrated with zoning and it makes me not want to play. What do I do to get around Sektor’s up rockets and straight rockets”?

Edit: I meant to reply to your post prior to this one where you were talking about people calling people scrubs instead of helping

Ay, I know what you mean. But my point was that instead of just blowing people up as soon as they complain, lay it out why it's not a cheap thing and what they should be doing. If they are open to it at all and actually want to get better, they'll listen, if not... let them, much like babies, cry themselves to sleep and ignore them til they leave.

I just don't feel calling players scrubs and whiners and what have you is all that productive. Granted, I'm sure we've all done it and sometimes crack jokes about it, but I think it just creates a sort of elitist type atmosphere where it's gonna be more arguments and more whining than anything else.

*shrug* IDK, I just know that a lot of us were in their shoes at one point (I definitely was/and still am when it comes to some things in these games) and I feel like if more people didn't just dismiss them cause they complained, we could potentially have more players that want to learn and be part of the community. Or fuck, maybe it's because I just watched Captain America: The First Avenger again and I'm in that good feels mood. lmao

 

[Scoot Magee]

So I cant be in if I main noob and scorpion? I think scorpion may be hated by the zoning academy.

 

[Cashual]

Ay, I know what you mean. But my point was that instead of just blowing people up as soon as they complain, lay it out why it's not a cheap thing and what they should be doing. If they are open to it at all and actually want to get better, they'll listen, if not... let them, much like babies, cry themselves to sleep and ignore them til they leave.

I just don't feel calling players scrubs and whiners and what have you is all that productive. Granted, I'm sure we've all done it and sometimes crack jokes about it, but I think it just creates a sort of elitist type atmosphere where it's gonna be more arguments and more whining than anything else.

*shrug* IDK, I just know that a lot of us were in their shoes at one point (I definitely was/and still am when it comes to some things in these games) and I feel like if more people didn't just dismiss them cause they complained, we could potentially have more players that want to learn and be part of the community. Or fuck, maybe it's because I just watched Captain America: The First Avenger again and I'm in that good feels mood. lmao

I appreciate your point of view and for sure agree that it’s good to help people and turn the conversation productive when possible.

I sometimes think it’s a fruitless effort and have personally engaged that argument many times so I think my patience with it is pretty low at this point.

 

[DragonofDadashov24]

I appreciate your point of view and for sure agree that it’s good to help people and turn the conversation productive when possible.

I sometimes think it’s a fruitless effort and have personally engaged that argument many times so I think my patience with it is pretty low at this point.

Figures