The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

[Vslayer]

Execute Order 66 ma'lord?

It shall be done.

Gay.

 

[VSC_Supreme]

Honestly you guys are really ignoring the big issue with zoning which is that when people zone they aren't losing to me the way that I want them to.

They might actually even win, which a big no-no.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

The biggest problem in this thread isn't the amount of "scrubs", it's the attitude toward them. How do you expect the community to "level up" and "git gud" if everyone just dismisses lower level and new players and their opinions and thoughts on a matter like zoning? Granted, there will be people who are just here to whine, but that's true in anything.

Of course people think it's spam and annoying and cheap... when we were all starting out, SO DID WE. And honestly it kind of is, but that's the point of it. Zoning is about trying to annoy/frustrate the opponent into doing something rash or risky and punishing them for it. It's about controlling certain space on the screen and keeping it in your favor.

So instead of laughing at "how bad tym has become" and how "people should go back to gamefaqs", explain why zoning isn't a scrub move and how it's basically a strategy in the same vein as rushdown. Try to help the community "git gud."

In rushdown, you're trying to force the opponent to play your game by overwhelming them and forcing them to eat pressure and potentially mixups while they look for the opportunity to get out. Same applies in zoning, you're forcing the opponent to make reads and look for opportunities to get in. Different strokes, different folks.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Been on your side a long time, General.
I certainly won't be breaking rank now.

Also, a thousand points for what @STB Sgt Reed said.

Angelman stands with the Academy.
Long live the will of The Great Zone.
Bum bidum, bum bum bum bum.

 

[Burn2019]

As I always say, if it's a strategy that can be formed within the confines of the game, and isn't cheating, then it's fair game and perfectly legit thing to do.

People hated Sub Zero for the ice clone, yet I would zone all game with it because it was an effective strategy. And to me, the fun of the play style is forcing the opponent to play how you want them to, rather than you playing how they want you to.

Nothing wrong with zoning imo.

Nothing wrong with leaving midway through a match against a spammer either. There’s always someone more fun to play against.

 

[Blizer]

Nothing wrong with leaving midway through a match against a spammer either. There’s always someone more fun to play against.

Or, you can try to play around it, and also lab agansit and with the character, so that next time you play agansit it, you know what to do.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Straight the fuck up- it is a lot easier to kill someone with 50/50s, plus frames, and high damaging combos than it is to kill them with 6% projectiles and spacing. Zoning is important because without it, rushdown wouldn't be exciting or satisfying, and vise versa. A zoner being point blank with Cage should be just as scary as Cage being full screen from a zoner. Quan Chi, Sektor, Mileena Piercing, and Predator HQT were "zoners" sure..... but we all know it wasn't the zoning that made them dominant, it was their badass tool kit that made them work so well and the zoning was just the icing on the cake. If they were pure zoners, they wouldn't have their reputation. This might just be me, but imo the zoning in MKX wasn't an actual way to win matches, it was a temporary way to build some meter and maybe steal like 20% off your opponent.

Anyhow, as for this game, I don't know who I'm gonna use, I have a lot of characters I'm interested in trying. If I like Noob Saibot, then I'll be doing some zoning in MK11.

 

[REO]

Now is probably a good time to educate those who want to understand fighting games with the styles and terms you'll come across.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14QABr7ezeI1Q9BIqdi2die_N22D9YX_QI4nuOdLe2AQ/edit#gid=1328387618

Read that above if you're new and want to understand common terms in fighting games better. It's still a work in progress but much more will be added to it as we get into MK11.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

Gay.

Cringe

 

[Blizer]

Now i have the urge to play Sektor again in mk9

 

[Burn2019]

Or, you can try to play around it, and also lab agansit and with the character, so that next time you play agansit it, you know what to do.

I’ll play around with it a bit, sure. Then after the nth straight-up / horizontal missile, or fast fireball / flying kick from fullscreen, I’ll get bored and play against someone else.

 

[SaltShaker]

The biggest problem in this thread isn't the amount of "scrubs", it's the attitude toward them. How do you expect the community to "level up" and "git gud" if everyone just dismisses lower level and new players and their opinions and thoughts on a matter like zoning? Granted, there will be people who are just here to whine, but that's true in anything.

Of course people think it's spam and annoying and cheap... when we were all starting out, SO DID WE. And honestly it kind of is, but that's the point of it. Zoning is about trying to annoy/frustrate the opponent into doing something rash or risky and punishing them for it. It's about controlling certain space on the screen and keeping it in your favor.

So instead of laughing at "how bad tym has become" and how "people should go back to gamefaqs", explain why zoning isn't a scrub move and how it's basically a strategy in the same vein as rushdown. Try to help the community "git gud."

In rushdown, you're trying to force the opponent to play your game by overwhelming them and forcing them to eat pressure and potentially mixups while they look for the opportunity to get out. Same applies in zoning, you're forcing the opponent to make reads and look for opportunities to get in. Different strokes, different folks.

I would argue it's the opposite and you're giving people too much credit.

You've been around for a while you have seen all the anti-zoning tech I have posted to help people get around zoning characters. What happens in those threads? I almost always get "stop trying to downplay broken zoning characters" or "this isn't working for me so the character needs to be nerfed". I remember posting how to get around Dr. Fate's zoning and how to punish him, videos and all. Yet it was met with an army of "oh noes stop it the zoning is broken, nerf it". How do you help people improve like that? Most people who dislike zoning don't want to improve against it, they want it nerfed so it can be easier for them to walk in and mash buttons.

If some people were more receptive to the concept of zoning, more constructive conversations could be had about it. Problem is, there are a number of just bleed fans that think the second you throw a projectile or walk backwards you're "not fighting like a man". Imagine if someone was doing repetitive 50/50 looping setups into themselves, and I was like "I'm guessing wrong too often losing my whole life bar you're not fighting right". Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's the argument against zoning, but with zoning people actually give the argument credibility. Not sure that would ever change as long as people want to mindlessly mash buttons.

 

[Blizer]

I like how people are complaing about zoning, but no one will bring up MKD and its toxic amount of infinites and 50/50`s. (I do understand that IJ2 and MKX are in peoples minds recently, but zoning during the 3d era was quite shit, including with stance switching and stage dashing.)

I like MKD, dont get me wrong, but there was some just ridiculous shit in that game (I downloaded an emulator to play, enjoyed it, but holy shit, just by looking up shit and testing it in game, it was quite staggering the amount of crap that could have been pulled off)

 

[Burn2019]

I like how people are complaing about zoning, but no one will bring up MKD and its toxic amount of infinites and 50/50`s. (I do understand that IJ2 and MKX are in peoples minds recently, but zoning during the 3d era was quite shit, including with stance switching and stage dashing.)

I like MKD, dont get me wrong, but there was some just ridiculous shit in that game (I downloaded an emulator to play, enjoyed it, but holy shit, just by looking up shit and testing it in game, it was quite staggering the amount of crap that could have been pulled off)

We’re not talking about MKD. I certainly don’t remember any infinite’s online or horrible 50/50s; just Dairou’s broken slam and Bo’ Rai Cho’s broken staff.

 

[Blizer]

Noob-Smoke, Ashrah, Shujinko

Just to name a few who had disgusting infinites (Noob-Smoke had two i believe)

 

[Burn2019]

Noob-Smoke, Ashrah, Shujinko

Just to name a few who had disgusting infinites (Noob-Smoke had two i believe)

I never came across them or heard of them.

Fortunately by the sound of it; Scorpion’s resets in MK9
/ X and projectile dash-cancels were bad enough.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I would argue it's the opposite and you're giving people too much credit.

You've been around for a while you have seen all the anti-zoning tech I have posted to help people get around zoning characters. What happens in those threads? I almost always get "stop trying to downplay broken zoning characters" or "this isn't working for me so the character needs to be nerfed". I remember posting how to get around Dr. Fate's zoning and how to punish him, videos and all. Yet it was met with an army of "oh noes stop it the zoning is broken, nerf it". How do you help people improve like that? Most people who dislike zoning don't want to improve against it, they want it nerfed so it can be easier for them to walk in and mash buttons.

If some people were more receptive to the concept of zoning, more constructive conversations could be had about it. Problem is, there are a number of just bleed fans that think the second you throw a projectile or walk backwards you're "not fighting like a man". Imagine if someone was doing repetitive 50/50 looping setups into themselves, and I was like "I'm guessing wrong too often losing my whole life bar you're not fighting right". Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's the argument against zoning, but with zoning people actually give the argument credibility. Not sure that would ever change as long as people want to mindlessly mash buttons.

I don't completely disagree with you. There's always going to be idiots regardless of what is posted/recorded. But those types threads and videos need to continue to happen to show those who have even a sliver of an open mind that there are ways around this stuff. And even for people like myself who are just bad. It helps the community get better, even if it's only a few players.

Adding more into the competitive community is always better than just laughing and telling them they are stupid.

That and keep on zoning, the players who want to win bad enough will make their way around to listening.

 

[Blizer]

I never came across them or heard of them.

Fortunately by the sound of it; Scorpion’s resets in MK9
/ X and projectile dash-cancels were bad enough.

Scorpion could reset by side dashing and get a second spear off if his first one connected in MKD

MKD is likely the most broken an NRS game has been, as any character could pull off stupid fucking combos and dmg, and ridiculous 50/50s

(Shujinko could get 142% on the ps2/Xbox version of the game)

 

[lionheart21]

Now is probably a good time to educate those who want to understand fighting games with the styles and terms you'll come across.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14QABr7ezeI1Q9BIqdi2die_N22D9YX_QI4nuOdLe2AQ/edit#gid=1328387618

Read that above if you're new and want to understand common terms in fighting games better. It's still a work in progress but much more will be added to it as we get into MK11.

Great post. As someone who's coming back from a fighting game hiatus, I needed a bit of a refresher, this'll do nicely.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I would argue it's the opposite and you're giving people too much credit.

You've been around for a while you have seen all the anti-zoning tech I have posted to help people get around zoning characters. What happens in those threads? I almost always get "stop trying to downplay broken zoning characters" or "this isn't working for me so the character needs to be nerfed". I remember posting how to get around Dr. Fate's zoning and how to punish him, videos and all. Yet it was met with an army of "oh noes stop it the zoning is broken, nerf it". How do you help people improve like that? Most people who dislike zoning don't want to improve against it, they want it nerfed so it can be easier for them to walk in and mash buttons.

If some people were more receptive to the concept of zoning, more constructive conversations could be had about it. Problem is, there are a number of just bleed fans that think the second you throw a projectile or walk backwards you're "not fighting like a man". Imagine if someone was doing repetitive 50/50 looping setups into themselves, and I was like "I'm guessing wrong too often losing my whole life bar you're not fighting right". Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's the argument against zoning, but with zoning people actually give the argument credibility. Not sure that would ever change as long as people want to mindlessly mash buttons.

That's the main issue. No one wants to learn anything and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter. They want dont want to understand frame data,mechanics, or how to counter something.

When I play lengthy sets I don't sit and bitch because i get hit with 50/50's or dont know how to counter certain strings (Ala Jason's B122), I fucking grind it out.

And you know what? Learning the game and becoming better is half the fun for me and others who I play with regularly.

I'm still learning stuff in MKX by playing against good players and it makes the game fresh.

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't completely disagree with you. There's always going to be idiots regardless of what is posted/recorded. But those types threads and videos need to continue to happen to show those who have even a sliver of an open mind that there are ways around this stuff. And even for people like myself who are just bad. It helps the community get better, even if it's only a few players.

Adding more into the competitive community is always better than just laughing and telling them they are stupid.

That and keep on zoning, the players who want to win bad enough will make their way around to listening.

Yea I hear that. By weeks 1-2 I'll probably have some work around tech posted against whatever is deemed the problematic zoning in the game regardless. The main reason I always put those up is because I figure A) if people know how to get around it, then it forces me to adjust my game making me a better player and B) if the options around it are on full display, I hope it becomes informative enough to not demand an unjustified nerf. Sometimes a character like say Deadshot needs a nerf (though they went overboard), but characters like Full Auto Jacqui were perfectly fine.

I try not to ridicule people about it though unless they're just pushing the envelope with nonsense. You're dead on about that part. For as good as we get in these games there is always someone better, so ultimately that's pointless unless we're winning Evo. Since there are more new members in this cycle than I ever remember seeing, I am hoping they will be receptive to the anti-zoning tech that I (and others) will share post-launch. The Inj1 days were Godlike in that regard here.

 

[SUPAHJD]

At what point do you stop though and see all these posts from the "masses" that are apparently commenting against zoning and say "Huh, ya know what? Maybe there is something wrong with how NRS is doing their zoning.".

One more time, there's nothing wrong with traditional zoning. There was a time in NRS where it was a bit fine. It was used as a technique that took skill.

Until I genuinely feel like someone can tell me why, I can not genuinely see why one would say "oh it takes just as much skill as rush down and combos!" Because that doesn't make sense to me. The literal NRS way of zoning is to smack the opponent to the other side of the screen or back up, and spam a "special" move that keeps the player away. No one is saying that it works great all the time. We're saying it's beyond tedious, repetitive, and annoying. Or in no way shape or form fun.

Meanwhile. "wel ur jus mashin button!" is actually a player who took the time to learn a combo with a decent carry that took some time to learn having to do tedious shit because "ITS COMPLETELY VALID" Superman over here wants to laser beam from the other side of the screen nonstop.

Of course people are gonna react negatively to this thread "Aha! They got rid of running! That'll show players for trying to approach us on the other side of the screen!". If zoning at least seemed a bit more complicated than what it is nowadays in their games, I'm sure this shit would be fine. But it's not. It's now just a combination of easy to input moves at a very annoying rate over and over again standing away.

And no, trying to fault people because "oh you're just a newbie casual scum!" "alt!" "go back to gamefaqs!" doesn't exactly disprove shit. Explain to me why the hell in MKX [I'll at least give you that because as said, it definitely wasn't as strong there. Still tedious] and Injustice 2 which is zoning hell to me, zoning is just as much as a valid and skilled method as run down and combos. How does going to that other side of the screen and inputing these easy "special moves" the same as chasing you down on the other side of the screen and learning a juggling combo that takes precise timing to input and carry with.

 

[Vslayer]

The biggest problem in this thread isn't the amount of "scrubs", it's the attitude toward them. How do you expect the community to "level up" and "git gud" if everyone just dismisses lower level and new players and their opinions and thoughts on a matter like zoning? Granted, there will be people who are just here to whine, but that's true in anything.

Of course people think it's spam and annoying and cheap... when we were all starting out, SO DID WE. And honestly it kind of is, but that's the point of it. Zoning is about trying to annoy/frustrate the opponent into doing something rash or risky and punishing them for it. It's about controlling certain space on the screen and keeping it in your favor.

So instead of laughing at "how bad tym has become" and how "people should go back to gamefaqs", explain why zoning isn't a scrub move and how it's basically a strategy in the same vein as rushdown. Try to help the community "git gud."

In rushdown, you're trying to force the opponent to play your game by overwhelming them and forcing them to eat pressure and potentially mixups while they look for the opportunity to get out. Same applies in zoning, you're forcing the opponent to make reads and look for opportunities to get in. Different strokes, different folks.

I agree. I think my hatred for zonning is really just those few who spam, and not actual zonners. I have zero patience when I play and I had to work a lot on not always pressing buttons and waiting to punish the opponent. Injustice 2 and SFV helped a lot in that aspect.

 

[SUPAHJD]

I agree. I think my hatred for zonning is really just those few who spam, and not actual zonners. I have zero patience when I play and I had to work a lot on not always pressing buttons and waiting to punish the opponent. Injustice 2 and SFV helped a lot in that aspect.

I'll speak in as the "casual scrub" I am.

Please don't fault yourself for having this hate because it's completely valid. Zoning as of lately literally has been just projectile spam. The many heavily outweigh the few here and it's become a term that no one likes to hear.

The fact of the matter is, zoning nowadays at least in NRS games [I mainly play Tekken and NRS fighters now so I mean] has become exactly what you said it is. Spamming on the other side of the screen. Because it's easy to do, it can be rewarded against a more casual gamer or newbie and that's that.

 

[Marinjuana]

Zoning as of lately literally has been just projectile spam.

At what point did it change? Because when I first played SF2 in the late 90s everyone was spamming projectiles. I still don't know how to deal with MK2 Liu Kang's fireball game. Zoning has always been there.