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Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Metzos said:
Thats the issue, if the Flash player knows what he is doing, there isnt much Darkseid can do. Zoning Flash is irrelevant, his footsies are godlike compared to Darkseid's and lets not forget his safe 50/50's into a shitload of dmg, which lead into ANOTHER guess and then death.

I really dont think Darkseid can do much against a Flash player who knows the MU. From my personal experience thats a losing MU for Darkseid.
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theres gotta be something to exploit in that MU tho? also what makes flashes 50/50's safe? the running man cancels?
 
K

kcd117

Noob
Invincible Salads said:
theres gotta be something to exploit in that MU tho? also what makes flashes 50/50's safe? the running man cancels?
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They are actually unsafe if he commits to lightning kicks, but darkseid gets like 15% dmg on a punish.
I found nothing to exploit honestly. Flash's d2 low profiles every normal we have, it makes his pressure extremely strong against ds cuz even when he is -4 for example if you try to d1 he can low profile it with his d2 and launch you for full combo. You can backdash but his advancing strings will hit you out of it. Mbb3 is darkseid's only reliable anti air and it can't be used against flash bc his j2 breaks armor, so he gets to jump a lot on us too. You can d2 his j2 but his j1 is extremely hard to uppercut, so it is extremely risky to d2 flash out of the air on a reaction.
Flash can d2 every charging minion setup bc it makes the parademon whiff if he times it correctly, and if you teleport it hits darkseid out of everything he can try to do, you can use exploding parademon for setups but they are harder to use on a character like flash.

The best bet is to keep flash out the entire match playing a perfect spacing game with lasers and parademon, once he is in you can't really do anything to stop his pressure.

Also never wakeup against flash, his setups can stuff it and his d2 makes it whiff and launches for full combo. If he is doing running man setups in the corner always delay wakeup to make it easier to see if it's gonna crossup or not.

The matchup is already a nightmare but it can get worse, if flash has the life lead and 4 bars (which he usually has) you already lost.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
kcd117 said:
They are actually unsafe if he commits to lightning kicks, but darkseid gets like 15% dmg on a punish.
I found nothing to exploit honestly. Flash's d2 low profiles every normal we have, it makes his pressure extremely strong against ds cuz even when he is -4 for example if you try to d1 he can low profile it with his d2 and launch you for full combo. You can backdash but his advancing strings will hit you out of it. Mbb3 is darkseid's only reliable anti air and it can't be used against flash bc his j2 breaks armor, so he gets to jump a lot on us too. You can d2 his j2 but his j1 is extremely hard to uppercut, so it is extremely risky to d2 flash out of the air on a reaction.
Flash can d2 every charging minion setup bc it makes the parademon whiff if he times it correctly, and if you teleport it hits darkseid out of everything he can try to do, you can use exploding parademon for setups but they are harder to use on a character like flash.

The best bet is to keep flash out the entire match playing a perfect spacing game with lasers and parademon, once he is in you can't really do anything to stop his pressure.

Also never wakeup against flash, his setups can stuff it and his d2 makes it whiff and launches for full combo. If he is doing running man setups in the corner always delay wakeup to make it easier to see if it's gonna crossup or not.

The matchup is already a nightmare but it can get worse, if flash has the life lead and 4 bars (which he usually has) you already lost.
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sounds like flash's d2 should get its hitbox altered, kinda dumb that it low profiles everything.

how plus is flash off his running stance cancels?

he can actually be zoned out tho?
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
i still feel like im doing something wrong with darkseid, in the matches i play, should i just post vids of em? or can someone here play against me?
 
D

DrZmmm

Noob
I'm thinking about dropping him. It's so hard to get in on anyone who knows what to do against Darkseid. I don't even think he's top 10 at this point now that people understand the mu. Maybe he was top 10 during the game's initial release, but now I'm not so sure. I really like Darkseid and his play style, but I think he needs slight buffing. Nothing over the top just something to make him more viable
 
K

kcd117

Noob
DrZmmm said:
I'm thinking about dropping him. It's so hard to get in on anyone who knows what to do against Darkseid. I don't even think he's top 10 at this point now that people understand the mu. Maybe he was top 10 during the game's initial release, but now I'm not so sure. I really like Darkseid and his play style, but I think he needs slight buffing. Nothing over the top just something to make him more viable
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I don't think he needs any buffs. Once the bs top tiers get their nerf he is gonna be fine. The only thing that hurts the argument of him being top 10 imo is that he has no winning matches against the the remaining 9 characters, while having at least 5 bad MU among them. Once the patch drops he is probably gonna be better, considering he doesn't seem to be a big issue to the point of getting a nerf, and his worst matchups are definitely going to get hit by the nerf bat.
Darkseid is in a good place right now, imo he can be grouped with scarecrow, flash, green lantern, green arrow, and a few other characters that are strong but have weakness at the same time. I can't see him getting any major changes.
 
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DrZmmm

Noob
kcd117 said:
I don't think he needs any buffs. Once the bs top tiers get their nerf he is gonna be fine. The only thing that hurts the argument of him being top 10 imo is that he has no winning matches against the the remaining 9 characters, while having at least 5 bad MU among them. Once the patch drops he is probably gonna be better, considering he doesn't seem to be a big issue to the point of getting a nerf, and his worst matchups are definitely going to get hit by the nerf bat.
Darkseid is in a good place right now, imo he can be grouped with scarecrow, flash, green lantern, green arrow, and a few other characters that are strong but have weakness at the same time. I can't see him getting any major changes.
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That makes sense. I still think they should buff his normals in some regard. And maybe low omega beam.

I decided to stick with him though. I think I just have to practice my patience with him when my opponent is getting through my zoning or reacting correctly to everything I throw out.
 
SE1Z3

SE1Z3

Noob
That's a really interesting idea, are you specifically referring to when your opponent tries to poke back with a d1 or something? I ask this because I have had success with doing instant Doom Stomp immediately after a hit or sometimes even blocked d1, when the jump of the Doom Stomp causes their d1 to whiff. If there are other situations I'd love to hear more about them.

Xbox: SE1Z3 PSN: Gorvesk Twitter: @franciscapra
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Low Omega Beam should be able to launch for a combo with meter. It should be safe on block with meter in this case as well.

b1u3 shouldn't be so fucking punishable. It ONLY launches if you have meter. I'm not saying make it plus or barely minus, but it's full combo punishable.

Darkseid has an issue with safety because everything he does is damn near full combo punishable. It doesn't matter if it's a normal or special (excluding MB bf3).

Oh, also, before anyone says anything about his trait: I don't wanna hear it. People are figuring out ways around his setups.

Darkseid is death on whiff and block to the max. Safety and having a real punisher (f2 needs to be a mid and maybe a bit faster) are his biggest issues.
 
K

kcd117

Noob
Eldriken said:
Low Omega Beam should be able to launch for a combo with meter. It should be safe on block with meter in this case as well.

b1u3 shouldn't be so fucking punishable. It ONLY launches if you have meter. I'm not saying make it plus or barely minus, but it's full combo punishable.

Darkseid has an issue with safety because everything he does is damn near full combo punishable. It doesn't matter if it's a normal or special (excluding MB bf3).

Oh, also, before anyone says anything about his trait: I don't wanna hear it. People are figuring out ways around his setups.

Darkseid is death on whiff and block to the max. Safety and having a real punisher (f2 needs to be a mid and maybe a bit faster) are his biggest issues.
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I like the mb low laser idea, I think having to spend 2 bars to punish unsafe shit with darkseid makes people disrespect him too much. It being safe would be too much tho, if they give it they need to make it so you can only mb on hit. Making s1 6 frames would also help the punish department big time.

Not being able to punish a cat dash, or a lighning kick properly without 2 bars is the only thing that bothers me about darkseid. The option to mb low laser on hit would help him on his bad matchups without breaking him on the good ones.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
kcd117 said:
I like the mb low laser idea, I think having to spend 2 bars to punish unsafe shit with darkseid makes people disrespect him too much. It being safe would be too much tho, if they give it they need to make it so you can only mb on hit. Making s1 6 frames would also help the punish department big time.

Not being able to punish a cat dash, or a lighning kick properly without 2 bars is the only thing that bothers me about darkseid. The option to mb low laser on hit would help him on his bad matchups without breaking him on the good ones.
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Okay, I can get behind that. Let it launch but have it keep its current frame data. Seems like a fair trade.
 
geezy89

geezy89

Weekend Warrior
kcd117 said:
I like the mb low laser idea, I think having to spend 2 bars to punish unsafe shit with darkseid makes people disrespect him too much. It being safe would be too much tho, if they give it they need to make it so you can only mb on hit. Making s1 6 frames would also help the punish department big time.

Not being able to punish a cat dash, or a lighning kick properly without 2 bars is the only thing that bothers me about darkseid. The option to mb low laser on hit would help him on his bad matchups without breaking him on the good ones.
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Personally I'm okay with the way he is as far as punishing. We have a fast punish with d1 df1, just doesn't do that much damage. Still gives a chance for trait. He gains meter pretty quickly with lasers so using two bars for a hard hitting AND fast punisher seems fair enough to me. I think learning to utilize all of the options with demons is what will keep him afloat. Like someone mentioned earlier, I think explosive demon is under utilized right now.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
kcd117 said:
Not being able to punish a cat dash, or a lighning kick properly without 2 bars is the only thing that bothers me about darkseid. The option to mb low laser on hit would help him on his bad matchups without breaking him on the good ones.
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Darkseid's punishing, along with safety and trait set ups to address @Eldriken 's concerns, are good enough. Those aspects of Darkseid's gameplay are not weaknesses. Footsies are. The character has no useful strings to stop opponents from advancing. The mid-range tools he does possess, namely d+3, d,b+1, f+2,3, and f+3, either have massive recovery frames or poor risk versus reward ratios. To make matters, he has an inconsistent d+2 as an anti-air. I still disagree with any buffs to Darkseid, but I would not mind seeing a universal buff to some of the weaker uppercuts in the game. Darkseid's d+2 is still amazing in comparison to Poison Ivy's 20F d+2 that is -10 on block. LOL. What is the point of such a move?
 
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kcd117

Noob
General M2Dave said:
Darkseid's punishing, along with safety and trait set ups to address @Eldriken 's concerns, are good enough. Those aspects of Darkseid's gameplay are not weaknesses. Footsies are. The character has no useful strings to stop opponents from advancing. The mid-range tools he does possess, namely d+3, d,b+1, f+2,3, and f+3, either have massive recovery frames or poor risk versus reward ratios. To make matters, he has an inconsistent d+2 as an anti-air. I still disagree with any buffs to Darkseid, but I would not mind seeing a universal buff to some of the weaker uppercuts in the game. Darkseid's d+2 is still amazing in comparison to Poison Ivy's 20F d+2 that is -10 on block. LOL. What is the point of such a move?
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I agree that he doesn't really need buffs, He is perfectly balanced imo, is just that I really wouldn't mind being able to punish unsafe moves below -15 for good dmg without having to spend 2 bars.
Most d2s in this game could use some help, and air normals need some nerfs as well bc some characters are impossible to anti air on reaction. Batman's j2, harley's j1 and j2, flash's j1 and j2, catwoman's j1 and j2, green lantern's j1 and superman's j1 and j2 are some of the most ridiculous and scrubby air normals I've seen in any fighting game. I don't have an issue with jump attacks being good, but when they become abusable tools with little to no risk involved something has to be done. Sometimes it feels like I'm playing injustice while my opponent is playing the floor is lava, and even tho I can react to jump ins I'm the one taking the risk trying anti air instead of them taking the risk trying to jump at me.
 
WhamBamThanxSam

WhamBamThanxSam

Noob
kcd117 said:
I agree that he doesn't really need buffs, He is perfectly balanced imo, is just that I really wouldn't mind being able to punish unsafe moves below -15 for good dmg without having to spend 2 bars.
Most d2s in this game could use some help, and air normals need some nerfs as well bc some characters are impossible to anti air on reaction. Batman's j2, harley's j1 and j2, flash's j1 and j2, catwoman's j1 and j2, green lantern's j1 and superman's j1 and j2 are some of the most ridiculous and scrubby air normals I've seen in any fighting game. I don't have an issue with jump attacks being good, but when they become abusable tools with little to no risk involved something has to be done. Sometimes it feels like I'm playing injustice while my opponent is playing the floor is lava, and even tho I can react to jump ins I'm the one taking the risk trying anti air instead of them taking the risk trying to jump at me.
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Glad I'm not the only one getting blown up for trying to anti-air Batman's j2. Shit is ridiculous and infuriating.
 
OmGxBdON

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Eldriken said:
Low Omega Beam should be able to launch for a combo with meter. It should be safe on block with meter in this case as well.

b1u3 shouldn't be so fucking punishable. It ONLY launches if you have meter. I'm not saying make it plus or barely minus, but it's full combo punishable.

Darkseid has an issue with safety because everything he does is damn near full combo punishable. It doesn't matter if it's a normal or special (excluding MB bf3).

Oh, also, before anyone says anything about his trait: I don't wanna hear it. People are figuring out ways around his setups.

Darkseid is death on whiff and block to the max. Safety and having a real punisher (f2 needs to be a mid and maybe a bit faster) are his biggest issues.
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Which is why he retarded damage
 
Jonny_2cold

Jonny_2cold

Noob
Eldriken said:
Low Omega Beam should be able to launch for a combo with meter. It should be safe on block with meter in this case as well.

b1u3 shouldn't be so fucking punishable. It ONLY launches if you have meter. I'm not saying make it plus or barely minus, but it's full combo punishable.

Darkseid has an issue with safety because everything he does is damn near full combo punishable. It doesn't matter if it's a normal or special (excluding MB bf3).

Oh, also, before anyone says anything about his trait: I don't wanna hear it. People are figuring out ways around his setups.

Darkseid is death on whiff and block to the max. Safety and having a real punisher (f2 needs to be a mid and maybe a bit faster) are his biggest issues.
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I have been preaching these exact points
 
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Eldriken

Guest
OmGxBdON said:
It's hard to,open people up with a 50/50?
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What 50/50 does he always have access to at any point in a match?

Ohhh, you mean his trait? People are figuring out ways around that shit all the time.

Hell, getting hit by the Parademon tends to botch his whole setup and he gets nothing further from it.
 
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kcd117

Noob
OmGxBdON said:
It's hard to,open people up with a 50/50?
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Not trying to downplay here, but just to clarify, his 50/50 is great but you shouldn't be letting darkseid do raw 50/50s on you. He has ways to condition people to take his 50/50 on setups, but they can be avoided too. Once you play someone that knows the matchup it's definitely not "just 50/50 bro". Darkseid ain't no batgirl.
 
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