Enter the Bane: General Discussion

[masuhdunkillyall]

Tell your friends to delayed wake-up. That alone kills 50% of his game. Then have them pick a strong zoner. That will kill all of it.

That, and backdashing alot + saving meter for armored b3 or f3. Too many people don't know how to play against Bane.

 

[xengsu]

Delayed wake-upp is good against any character, or do you mean because of the armored command grab?

 

[big_aug]

Delayed wake-upp is good against any character, or do you mean because of the armored command grab?

Banes entire game revovles around knockdowns and the wakeup game. If you throw off the timing, it can be a major problem. For example, BF2 is full combo punishable on block or whiff. You can make it whiff by getting up late. If the timing is off, you can blow him up on a lot of stuff. Command grab is another good example.

Pretty much his entire game plan can be disrupted by it and nobody ever does it.

 

[xengsu]

You learn something every day, thanks big_aug.
one more question , im doing pretty good with bane but i have the problem when the enemy is super defensive and semi zoning, when i jump in i get a uppercut, and my other attacks have low range, the only thing that works is D1 poke but i cant seem to open them up, any tips?

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

If they're blocking the d1 it means they're watching their ankles and blocking low, so you can go for bf2, f2d or grab. If they're jumping means you can dash or venom uppercut/ring slam depending on the range.

If they're getting hit by d1 you can combo into v.uppercut or bf2, or you can start pressure with b1/b2, raw grab, f2d (small gap here), d2 xx grab or 11 into whatever.

If you're getting in range to connect the d1 you've basically done the hard part, now it's Bane time.

 

[chief713]

You learn something every day, thanks big_aug.
one more question , im doing pretty good with bane but i have the problem when the enemy is super defensive and semi zoning, when i jump in i get a uppercut, and my other attacks have low range, the only thing that works is D1 poke but i cant seem to open them up, any tips?

If you're hitting people with D1, you're already opening them up. It's +17 advantage on hit. Now look at the startup of his normals and the options you get from them.

- 11 (9f + 7f) comes out in 16 frames. From it, you can go into 112D which is an overhead and can be canceled into command grab which catches them on both hit and block.

- B1 comes out in 17 frames. B11 ticks into command grab on block. If you can confirm that B11 hits then you can either go into B112 xx command grab for decent damage or for 2 bars, bounce cancel B11 for grown man damage.
B112 is safe on block.

- B2 comes out in 18 frames. B21 is low overhead and +3 on block. B23 is -16 on block but ticks into command grab and launches for a combo on hit.

- F2D comes out in 24 frames. It's an overhead with the same properties as 112D. Can go into F2D2 to make it safe and if they like to escape or F2Dthrow if they like to block.

- Command grab comes out in 20 frames. If they get hit by that other shit, they'll start blocking and you can use this.

- Elbow comes out in 20 frames. Pretty ass option because it's so unsafe and does so little damage, but when ppl start backdashing and jumping away to get out of the above mixups, then this is really the only thing with the speed and range to stop them unless you got big nuts and preemptive dash or j2 respectively.

 

[OutlawNightmare]

I've always been a fan of making the hard read on a backdash and dashing with them.

You can feel their butt clenching though the internet.

 

[big_aug]

I've always been a fan of making the hard read on a backdash and dashing with them.

You can feel their butt clenching though the internet.

I do it all the time. Feels good. Some characters you just know they are going to try and abuse their back dash because they don't have anything else.

You don't have to ever do it vs Gorilla Grodd though. You get his free. When a Grodd tries a back dash, I can't help but laugh

 

[countrypistol]

Is there a way of setting up the dummy so it does wake up d1, but with delayed wake up set to random? I want to try and develop some hard knock down set ups that cover both regular and delayed non invincible wake ups, but can't find a suitable dummy set up.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Hello I'm a Brainac refugee and would like to join u guys can I get a link to the discord and some good advices on where to start

 

[OutlawNightmare]

Hello I'm a Brainac refugee and would like to join u guys can I get a link to the discord and some good advices on where to start

Boop. https://discord.gg/kDqz9mX

 

[Wetdoba]

Is there a way of setting up the dummy so it does wake up d1, but with delayed wake up set to random? I want to try and develop some hard knock down set ups that cover both regular and delayed non invincible wake ups, but can't find a suitable dummy set up.

Im not sure you can set the dummy to do all that but Ive been looking at set ups that cover both short and long delayed get ups and the best Ive found so far off command grab on hit is B21 and F2D2.

The first hit of both strings wil catch them if they short delay, one being overhead and the other low) and if they long delay the second hit will hit them. If they block either option we are at plus frames, on hit both have good knockdown advantage so back to the blender.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Another thing is delayed wake-up eats of venom time. Another reason why I think NRS made a huge mistake by not allowing elbow to OTG. In fact, the mistake is not having ANY OTG. I don't mind if the charge did damage as he ran them over.

 

[Poser Paul]

Is there a way of setting up the dummy so it does wake up d1, but with delayed wake up set to random? I want to try and develop some hard knock down set ups that cover both regular and delayed non invincible wake ups, but can't find a suitable dummy set up.

Control player 2 and record ai then work off of that

 

[UltraDavid]

Some characters have trouble punishing BF2 well. As he gets he's low invulnerable for whatever reason, meaning characters whose max punishes start low like Canary and Lantern have to find another option. It's not a great move but I think that's important to know.

Also, I may have missed it but haven't seen this mentioned yet: he can now trait up in the middle of a string. The timing is to press trait just immediately before the string button, almost like a double tap. So if trait is T, you can do T1T1T3 to get up to level 3 very quickly during your 113 string. This does add a couple frames of startup to the first hit of the string, so if you need a tight punish you can do 1T1T3. A full combo of T1T1T3 cancel into B3, jump 2, 12FDBF3 is like 700 damage iirc.

Anyway I think Bane is very strong. I'm not sure he'll end up struggling too badly against most of the zoners really. As long as you're willing to slowly walk and block under projectiles, know which projectiles you can safely dash after (like after blocking Aquaman's from the deep) and create roll mixups through, and keep your eyes open for a counterpoke with D1 or B2 or D2 or F2D or command grab, imo you should be doing fine. As in Inj1, venomed BF1 is fools gold in that it seems designed to help you get in but in reality it's just bait for MB B3 and neutral jump into punish. Obviously when you get in it's party time and your mixups can easily roll all the way through a lifebar.

It's way too early for tier talk of course but if Bane doesn't end up high tier, it'll only be if other characters end up even stronger! He's definitely good.

 

[Metzos]

How do you guys deal against Black Canary and Dr. Fate? I seem to be struggling alot against them (online).

 

[Rasssta48]

He is defenetly not bad, but that debuff issue destroys him in late game hard, when both supers(i must notice that damage from Bane super on lever 3 venom just slap in our faces and not worth debuff that comes next) are ready most of the time, both vagers, and all of that just refresh debuff, omg thats horrible, when people simply counter you by using vager to refreash debuff in last seconds( 50% of my losses was because of that, its very hard when you and your opponent go toe to toe. In my opinion all that things(supers, vagers and transitions) must set trait to zero, no matter what state it was on that moment. And am sure that -50%(maybe there is -60%) of damage on lever 3 debuff just too much, no armor and no proper back dash or jumps, if you get them you do funny 18% from meter burned f3(b3) lol. And one more thing - if that cheap Supes trait breaks armors with freakin everyting(pokes and more) so Bane on lever 3 venom should do the same or remove armor break from Supes at all because this counters hard only Bane, not really wise in terms of balance.

 

[UGL Preon]

Things I noticed as Bane in Injustice 2 (Key Venom Related, Button Related, Character Related)

• While F2D being armored in level 3, unless its closing out a health bar or is guaranteeing you the way in against a predictable zoner, its usually not worth it.
• If you're on the 2nd health bar of the opponent and your opponent has clash. If you find yourself in level 3 just do F2DxxF3/b3, f3. That 40-50% unclashable costs you 2 bars. So you'll also be at a meter disadvantage against anyone with meter management since most characters build meter super fast. And you dont want that debuff timer reset.
• Level 3 isnt even what it used to be. Especially when stacking with transitions & interactable. It used to be OD now its just a few extra damage points. Level 2 would suffice.
• Level 3 has weird issues with armor. Seems only Grab and Charge crush armor. With Grab its not always the best due to certain armored moves in the game being plenty grab immune.
• Level 1 may not give you the best damage (Neither does Level 3) in comparison to the first game. But it gives you armor and its blessing is the QUICK cooldown timer. Level 3 is should be behind glass with one of those "Are you sure?" Prompts beforehand.
• D1 on hit, D2xxCommand grab works wonders on most players up close. Usually after one of those the window of opportunity to tick b1xxCG, b11xxCG, b23xxCG widens.
• The Mileage one can get from bf2 is nutty. Most players right now want to abuse their wakeup game. 2 to 3 bf2s is all you'll need. Now on their wake up you can 112dxxCG or 112d2 or go for the meaty b2's, b1's, f2d2. F2D2 and its 11f2d2 counterpart being plus gives you options in and of itself. The MB option waits out 90% of level 1 and level 2 debuff and 40-50% of level 3. While it is death on block it combos off of d1 and is like a nerfed reverse Doomsday Earthshaker to block, catches backdashes/Jumps/Wakeups/Low Crushes/Moderately quick/Can Have Armor it has a lot of utility and is meant more to set the tone of denying options than it is for raw damage.
  
  
• Using Delayed wakeup on people trying to bully you into armored command grab or applicable option is also paying off for me.
  
  
• For some Zoners if you identify a pattern don't be afraid to roll against Darkseid or Deadshot (provided he fired any of the other kinds of shot that isn't the one bullet straight shot). Also on Black Adams who get "Low Lightning" addicted. MB Roll becomes good on read behind the opponent. If they shoot a long active projectile they won't turn around and full combo punish with b23, 112d, 113, f2dxxb3 depending.
• On an opponent who likes to delay wakeup. B21 and F2D2 and 112d2 are your friend. Leaving you at plus frames when they get up, to stay on the offensive
• Hitting a jump in into b1 or into raw command grab has been pretty dope too. Since a lot of people after blocking a jump in are mashing d1 pretty common now. Not sure who posted but the neutral jump2/jumpd3 cross up or not 50/50 has been a godsend for closing some games/rounds out in the corner.
• The most satisfying thing in this game is when you know they're going to armor your f2 so you bounce cancel it and beat their armor. I'll have to make a compilation of that it happens so often to me.

• Robin's sword flip wakeup gets stuffed with 113 or 112D. And punishing the sword run wakeup has gotten so much easier. As soon as you block hit your punish normal. It's weird and will feel like weird blockstun. But its not hard. Gap in his meterburnable sword flip if you choose to block it as well.
  
  Side Note About Sword Dance: Vanilla version of the game, this 113 tech wasn't a thing. I dunno what tiny fixes they've made since launch but this wasn't at release. Had to patch a console at Momocon that was on day one patch and couldn't stuff it.
• Canary's stage choice is key. Stay away from any interractable that allows her to flip at or over you or break them ASAP. It allows her a free way into cross ups, psuedo cross ups, and big damage for a bar. And her combos are good at stalling out the venom timer.

 

[Wetdoba]

Things I noticed as Bane in Injustice 2 (Key Venom Related, Button Related, Character Related)

• While F2D being armored in level 3, unless its closing out a health bar or is guaranteeing you the way in against a predictable zoner, its usually not worth it.
• If you're on the 2nd health bar of the opponent and your opponent has clash. If you find yourself in level 3 just do F2DxxF3/b3, f3. That 40-50% unclashable costs you 2 bars. So you'll also be at a meter disadvantage against anyone with meter management since most characters build meter super fast. And you dont want that debuff timer reset.
• Level 3 isnt even what it used to be. Especially when stacking with transitions & interactable. It used to be OD now its just a few extra damage points. Level 2 would suffice.
• Level 3 has weird issues with armor. Seems only Grab and Charge crush armor. With Grab its not always the best due to certain armored moves in the game being plenty grab immune.
• Level 1 may not give you the best damage (Neither does Level 3) in comparison to the first game. But it gives you armor and its blessing is the QUICK cooldown timer. Level 3 is should be behind glass with one of those "Are you sure?" Prompts beforehand.
• D1 on hit, D2xxCommand grab works wonders on most players up close. Usually after one of those the window of opportunity to tick b1xxCG, b11xxCG, b23xxCG widens.
• The Mileage one can get from bf2 is nutty. Most players right now want to abuse their wakeup game. 2 to 3 bf2s is all you'll need. Now on their wake up you can 112dxxCG or 112d2 or go for the meaty b2's, b1's, f2d2. F2D2 and its 11f2d2 counterpart being plus gives you options in and of itself. The MB option waits out 90% of level 1 and level 2 debuff and 40-50% of level 3. While it is death on block it combos off of d1 and is like a nerfed reverse Doomsday Earthshaker to block, catches backdashes/Jumps/Wakeups/Low Crushes/Moderately quick/Can Have Armor it has a lot of utility and is meant more to set the tone of denying options than it is for raw damage.
  
  
• Using Delayed wakeup on people trying to bully you into armored command grab or applicable option is also paying off for me.
  
  
• For some Zoners if you identify a pattern don't be afraid to roll against Darkseid or Deadshot (provided he fired any of the other kinds of shot that isn't the one bullet straight shot). Also on Black Adams who get "Low Lightning" addicted. MB Roll becomes good on read behind the opponent. If they shoot a long active projectile they won't turn around and full combo punish with b23, 112d, 113, f2dxxb3 depending.
• On an opponent who likes to delay wakeup. B21 and F2D2 and 112d2 are your friend. Leaving you at plus frames when they get up, to stay on the offensive
• Hitting a jump in into b1 or into raw command grab has been pretty dope too. Since a lot of people after blocking a jump in are mashing d1 pretty common now. Not sure who posted but the neutral jump2/jumpd3 cross up or not 50/50 has been a godsend for closing some games/rounds out in the corner.
• The most satisfying thing in this game is when you know they're going to armor your f2 so you bounce cancel it and beat their armor. I'll have to make a compilation of that it happens so often to me.

• Robin's sword flip wakeup gets stuffed with 113 or 112D. And punishing the sword run wakeup has gotten so much easier. As soon as you block hit your punish normal. It's weird and will feel like weird blockstun. But its not hard. Gap in his meterburnable sword flip if you choose to block it as well.
  
  Side Note About Sword Dance: Vanilla version of the game, this 113 tech wasn't a thing. I dunno what tiny fixes they've made since launch but this wasn't at release. Had to patch a console at Momocon that was on day one patch and couldn't stuff it.
• Canary's stage choice is key. Stay away from any interractable that allows her to flip at or over you or break them ASAP. It allows her a free way into cross ups, psuedo cross ups, and big damage for a bar. And her combos are good at stalling out the venom timer.

Charge, elbow, command grab, venom upper, and F2 all break armor at level 3. The question is why does F2D not now? F2 and F2 both being special normals get armor at level 3 and projectile immunity but inly F2 gets the armor break property. Its really annoying and seems like a weird exclusion having F2D get only 2/3 of the level 3 properties while F2 gets all 3

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Charge, elbow, command grab, venom upper, and F2 all break armor at level 3. The question is why does F2D not now? F2 and F2 both being special normals get armor at level 3 and projectile immunity but inly F2 gets the armor break property. Its really annoying and seems like a weird exclusion having F2D get only 2/3 of the level 3 properties while F2 gets all 3

This was a rough realization for me. I thought it was a bug at first and tested more but it just doesn't break armor. It also seems as if there are more strings/special moves that are grab immune in this game than IJ1.

 

[UGL Preon]

Charge, elbow, command grab, venom upper, and F2 all break armor at level 3. The question is why does F2D not now? F2 and F2 both being special normals get armor at level 3 and projectile immunity but inly F2 gets the armor break property. Its really annoying and seems like a weird exclusion having F2D get only 2/3 of the level 3 properties while F2 gets all 3

You're right. But my go to is usually F2Dxxf3 at level 3. Plus on block and flash parries. Grabbing a grab immune wakeup or button basically nets you nothing but cooldown. At least on block you're plus for the f3 after F2D

 

[countrypistol]

Im not sure you can set the dummy to do all that but Ive been looking at set ups that cover both short and long delayed get ups and the best Ive found so far off command grab on hit is B21 and F2D2.

The first hit of both strings wil catch them if they short delay, one being overhead and the other low) and if they long delay the second hit will hit them. If they block either option we are at plus frames, on hit both have good knockdown advantage so back to the blender.

Would I be right in thinking that if they don't delay at all they can poke out with a d1 or something first?

 

[Wetdoba]

You're right. But my go to is usually F2Dxxf3 at level 3. Plus on block and flash parries. Grabbing a grab immune wakeup or button basically nets you nothing but cooldown. At least on block you're plus for the f3 after F2D

I usually just do F2D2 for plus frames and F2D command grab if I think theres a chance Ill need the flash parry.

 

[Wetdoba]

Would I be right in thinking that if they don't delay at all they can poke out with a d1 or something first?

If they dont delay they cannot D1 out of B2 but they can out of F2D

 

[countrypistol]

If they dont delay they cannot D1 out of B2 but they can out of F2D

Cool. B21 seems pretty good in that situation then. Also has massive advantage on hit too, which is nice.