Low tier variation problems: Who's struggling and why

[CrazyFingers]

As badly as Inferno has been handled over the course of the game's life, I'm not gonna do the cliche TYM thing and say it's bottom 5 with no winning matchups. (I don't meant to sound like a bigot but some of these 2015'ers should seriously have a look at MK9 Sheeva or Injustice 1 Joker to know what a character with no advantageous matchups in an NRS game really looks like). There are probably some core assets of Scorpion that still do their job in some matchups.

So in summary, is Inferno:

Redundant?
Absolutely. 100%

Bottom tier?
Can't say. Again, I don't know for sure how it's matchup chart stacks up against the rest of these supposed contenders for bottom 5 variations.

Joker in Injustice was sad and I don't know how anyone ever mained that man and didn't go ballistic.

 

[Alright RyRy]

KW Goro has to be in a list of horrible variations. There are very few MUs that you would want to choose it over Tigrar Fury or Dragon Fangs.

The only + to this is the chest lunge, it is amazing, a 10 frame TRUE mid. Good punisher.

But other than that, you have 0 reason to choose it over the other 2 variations imo.

 

[CrazyFingers]

KW Goro has to be in a list of horrible variations. There are very few MUs that you would want to choose it over Tigrar Fury or Dragon Fangs.

The only + to this is the chest lunge, it is amazing, a 10 frame TRUE mid. Good punisher.

But other than that, you have 0 reason to choose it over the other 2 variations imo.

unless of course, you love old school football helmets.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Just give KW less scaling on his ground pound and an air ground pound?

 

[Zionix]

KW Goro has to be in a list of horrible variations. There are very few MUs that you would want to choose it over Tigrar Fury or Dragon Fangs.

The only + to this is the chest lunge, it is amazing, a 10 frame TRUE mid. Good punisher.

But other than that, you have 0 reason to choose it over the other 2 variations imo.

Poor variation, relative to the others, not in the overall game.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Poor variation, relative to the others, not in the overall game.

I disagree. I feel very strongly when I say this variation is bottom 15.

 

[Pan1cMode]

As badly as Inferno has been handled over the course of the game's life, I'm not gonna do the cliche TYM thing and say it's bottom 5 with no winning matchups. (I don't meant to sound like a bigot but some of these 2015'ers should seriously have a look at MK9 Sheeva or Injustice 1 Joker to know what a character with no advantageous matchups in an NRS game really looks like). There are probably some core assets of Scorpion that still do their job in some matchups.

So in summary, is Inferno:

Redundant?
Absolutely. 100%

Bottom tier?
Can't say. Again, I don't know for sure how it's matchup chart stacks up against the rest of these supposed contenders for bottom 5 variations.

Are you going to tell me that high tech Jacqui has winning matchups?

 

[STRYKIE]

Are you going to tell me that high tech Jacqui has winning matchups?

Yes, High Tech beats Inferno.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Yes, High Tech beats Inferno.

She legit doesn't though

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Yeah .. so..

I play against a Cyrax semi-main and originally, I got bopped every time and just say there, originally consoled because the combos look cool as fuck. The after numerous losses and feeling like I could do nothing but watch myself die to.cool looking combos I said 'eh, how do I block that?' and said 'oh, so when I do this, do this, or when I do that, do this' and magically, I stopped losing as much and started not only winning , but bullying poor Cyrax.

If you think Cyrax is good, take the time to learn to play against him. Everything he does has an answer (or damn near) and once you know those answers, he starts not being able to do much.

Want a skilled and competitive players opinion of him? Hell, in last week Kombat Cup, MrAquaman mentions he usually enjoys playing less represented characters and characters thought to not be that great, so he took Cyrax to the lab.. and quickly decided Cyrax wasnt worth the trouble of fooling with.

 

[The_Tile]

Dude my tier list only has 4 steps. I think the game is in a pretty good balanced state right now and the better player will always win.

High: Mileena
Mid: Most of the Cast (Cyrax)
Mid-Low: Lackey F/T, Maybe one of Bos variation or Leather face.
Low: Warrior Predator, High Tech Jacquie

You're wrong about Warrior Predator too. Just wait till someone gets round to using him in tourney and you'll see he's not low tier lol.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You're wrong about Warrior Predator too. Just wait till someone gets round to using him in tourney and you'll see he's not low tier lol.

He is. He was already not so good, and the latest patch made him even worse

 

[The_Tile]

He is. He was already not so good, and the latest patch made him even worse

Stupidly high damage which is actually practical, +6 very fast armor move (easily one of the best on the game), unreachable launching 50/50s, can also launch off a throw, end every string in -3 (IIRC) with pimp slap.

Like I said, when you see a good player who knows what they're doing with him you'll change your mind and jump on the bandwagon.

He's one of those characters who looks shit if you don't actually do any research at all, looks broken if you do a bit of research but is probably gonna end up sitting around mid/high mid tier. Low tier is ridiculous though lol wtf.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

I stopped losing as much and started not only winning , but bullying poor Cyrax.

 

[HateMe!]

Stupidly high damage which is actually practical

Please elaborate, I wanna know these 'stupidly high damage' combos.

unreachable launching 50/50s,

What unreactable launching 50/50 does he have?

can also launch off a throw,

For a cost of 10% of his own lifebar, even when he fails; also, remember that self-destruct goes away on hit or block as well.

end every string in -3 (IIRC) with pimp slap.

...or you could play HQT and make most strings + on block, not just safe AND have great projectiles as well.

Like I said, when you see a good player who knows what they're doing with him you'll change your mind and jump on the bandwagon.

He's one of those characters who looks shit if you don't actually do any research at all, looks broken if you do a bit of research but is probably gonna end up sitting around mid/high mid tier. Low tier is ridiculous though lol wtf.

Again, please elaborate instead of telling us to 'do a bit of research'.

 

[GAV]

Please elaborate, I wanna know these 'stupidly high damage' combos.



What unreactable launching 50/50 does he have?



For a cost of 10% of his own lifebar, even when he fails; also, remember that self-destruct goes away on hit or block as well.



...or you could play HQT and make most strings + on block, not just safe AND have great projectiles as well.



Again, please elaborate instead of telling us to 'do a bit of research'.

Up-playing and downplaying looks for like thinkers or calls for action. He did none of that, so its just a heads up.

Not everyone has time to make videos so having ways to see what is what here is key.

 

[Skedar70]

Stupidly high damage which is actually practical, +6 very fast armor move (easily one of the best on the game), unreachable launching 50/50s, can also launch off a throw, end every string in -3 (IIRC) with pimp slap.

Like I said, when you see a good player who knows what they're doing with him you'll change your mind and jump on the bandwagon.

He's one of those characters who looks shit if you don't actually do any research at all, looks broken if you do a bit of research but is probably gonna end up sitting around mid/high mid tier. Low tier is ridiculous though lol wtf.

Someone like Scar or REO isn't enough? They can barely get a single game in a set with him. Huge difference when REO uses Hunter.

He is very meter hungry, the +6 armor move requires meter, those launching 50/50 require meter which he doesn't have because he can't pressure you to build it since all of his strings are very negative and you can only do 21 to kind of try to stagger. If you activate the self destruct the opponent just stays away and predator has a slow walk, run, and jump speed so you end up hurting yourself 10% for nothing. In the corner he is ok, but he is no Raiden or Subzero that will get you to the corner in one combo and you will lack the meter to actually do anything anyways. Warrior Predator is the worst variation post patch.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Please elaborate, I wanna know these 'stupidly high damage' combos.



What unreactable launching 50/50 does he have?



For a cost of 10% of his own lifebar, even when he fails; also, remember that self-destruct goes away on hit or block as well.



...or you could play HQT and make most strings + on block, not just safe AND have great projectiles as well.



Again, please elaborate instead of telling us to 'do a bit of research'.

if you've seen Warrior combos you know he hits hard. IAPounce and B3 are only slightly reactable at most and that's only if you're looking for it. It's going to hit you. Plus he has the threat of grab. the 10% health trade means jack shit in in comparison to the 35% he gets meterlessly off of grab and the 40% he gets minimum off of the other options. Finally, not every character can be as stupidly broken as HQT, if that was the case we'd have a problem on our hands. Warrior isn't op op but he isn't weak and quite honestly I'm sick of people saying he's weak.

 

[GAV]

Someone like Scar or REO isn't enough? They can barely get a single game in a set with him. Huge difference when REO uses Hunter.

He is very meter hungry, the +6 armor move requires meter, those launching 50/50 require meter which he doesn't have because he can't pressure you to build it since all of his strings are very negative and you can only do 21 to kind of try to stagger. If you activate the self destruct the opponent just stays away and predator has a slow walk, run, and jump speed so you end up hurting yourself 10% for nothing. In the corner he is ok, but he is no Raiden or Subzero that will get you to the corner in one combo and you will lack the meter to actually do anything anyways. Warrior Predator is the worst variation post patch.

I have no doubt you are being sincere, but I have seen first-hand what Warrior can do now. He's very honest, but still very capable in the right hands.

I don't know what happened to Erron Black, but players just stopped using him. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[EntropicByDesign]

This is against a Cyrax at my skill level. My bad for running sets with you if the idea was to come to TYM with it and belittle me? I lost, what, 25/0 and didn't get you below half health once?

I'm trash at MKX, I've never claimed otherwise, and don't get me wrong, the results wouldn't have changed, but I wasn't playing to win (as I stated in my looking for sets post) so much as to work on some things, which I didnt get to do obviously. I also didnt know how to get out the setups you were using as I haven't seen them before, but a better player with more experience who DID know (They arent unblockable, there is a way out, I just failed to find it) could have done fine work. But hey, you got to shit on me for a set - it doesn't change that Cyrax has numerous, glaring flaws.

Shrug. Whatever, I should know better than to expect anything more from TYM.

 

[HateMe!]

if you've seen Warrior combos you know he hits hard. IAPounce and B3 are only slightly reactable at most and that's only if you're looking for it. It's going to hit you. Plus he has the threat of grab. the 10% health trade means jack shit in in comparison to the 35% he gets meterlessly off of grab and the 40% he gets minimum off of the other options. Finally, not every character can be as stupidly broken as HQT, if that was the case we'd have a problem on our hands. Warrior isn't op op but he isn't weak and quite honestly I'm sick of people saying he's weak.

He does 30-35% for a bar, and best he can get meterless is what, 29%? It's bad compared to rest of the cast.

B3/EX iaStrike have no range at all, the overhead option costs a bar and is full combo punishable by everyone. You can get jabbed out of the air as well for a full combo if you fuck it up.
10% health DOES mean a lot - Warrior has to commit to self-destruct setup, losing dmg in the process, and if the opponent breaks the throw, Pred lost dmg from cutting the combo short to setup SD and gets damaged for 10% as well.
Eg. Hunter or Konjurer can also combo off throw with setup, but they don't get hit for 10% if the enemy breaks it.

He IS weak. He doesn't offer anything that other characters can't do better except for great wakeup/get off me move.

 

[The_Tile]

Please elaborate, I wanna know these 'stupidly high damage' combos.



What unreactable launching 50/50 does he have?



For a cost of 10% of his own lifebar, even when he fails; also, remember that self-destruct goes away on hit or block as well.



...or you could play HQT and make most strings + on block, not just safe AND have great projectiles as well.



Again, please elaborate instead of telling us to 'do a bit of research'.

He can get around 50/60% in the corner depending on the starter and how much meter you wanna spend, I'll post annotations later when my friend comes round cause he plays Warrior not me.

Unreactable launching 50/50 is B3 and Instant-AirExOH. Next.

Yeah, the move that allows him to get stupid high damage mixups should maybe go away on hit and block. The move has a downside, boo-fucking-hoo.

Obviously HQT is better than Warrior in every way, HQT is top tier. I'm not arguing Warrior is top tier or the best variation, im arguing he's mid tier, maybe a bit higher.

Also, the whole of my previous post was me elaborating on the final paragraphs.

You're acting like I said he's best in the game when that's not at all what I said, you're just a fucboi trying to shove words down my throat cause I've got a different opinion to you.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

This is against a Cyrax at my skill level. My bad for running sets with you if the idea was to come to TYM with it and belittle me? I lost, what, 25/0 and didn't get you below half health once?

I'm trash at MKX, I've never claimed otherwise, and don't get me wrong, the results wouldn't have changed, but I wasn't playing to win (as I stated in my looking for sets post) so much as to work on some things, which I didnt get to do obviously. I also didnt know how to get out the setups you were using as I haven't seen them before, but a better player with more experience who DID know (They arent unblockable, there is a way out, I just failed to find it) could have done fine work. But hey, you got to shit on me for a set - it doesn't change that Cyrax has numerous, glaring flaws.

Shrug. Whatever, I should know better than to expect anything more from TYM.

lol. I'm really sorry

 

[Skedar70]

I have no doubt you are being sincere, but I have seen first-hand what Warrior can do now. He's very honest, but still very capable in the right hands.

I don't know what happened to Erron Black, but players just stopped using him. Can someone enlighten me?

Scar and REO aren't the right hands? Who is worthy of such power then? Is Sonicfox the only one who should demonstrate to the community the hidden power of Warrior?

Warrior is garbage bro.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Scar and REO aren't the right hands? Who is worthy of such power then? Is Sonicfox the only one who should demonstrate to the community the hidden power of Warrior?

Warrior is garbage bro.

you do know that Reo has actually been playing a lot more lately and has said he's actually not bad anymore right?