Low tier variation problems: Who's struggling and why

[God Confirm]

Everything here sound like a reasonable fair character. He has his options and leaves the opponent options. Perfect balance. This doesn't make him bottom tier. Why the downplaying? why does the Cyrax community say he is bottom tier?. Everything here describes a perfect mid tier character.

name me 3 characters you'd place close to cyrax between or next to on the tier list so i know where you are placing him




cyrax is a bunch of fun no matter what tho

What matchups do you guys think Cyrax wins? I'd like to see the light of this great mid tier character.

im not sure that he is mid tier, im not placing him anywhere

but i think goro and jason are probably pretty good, both characters are beasts but their slow mobility gives you a lot more options with bombs. characters without double armor who cant make up for it by dominating the neutral like Jax I think will also be mops. Although he does have double armor in PU so ehh who knows. Risk reward heavily against pressing that button for him tho

 

[RevetLeafing]

Very pleased to see no one has put Tanya in bottom 5.

 

[Skedar70]

name me 3 characters you'd place close to cyrax between or next to on the tier list so i know where you are placing him




cyrax is a bunch of fun no matter what tho


im not sure that he is mid tier, im not placing him anywhere

but i think goro and jason are probably pretty good, both characters are beasts but their slow mobility gives you a lot more options with bombs. characters without double armor who cant make up for it by dominating the neutral like Jax I think will also be mops. Although he does have double armor in PU so ehh who knows. Risk reward heavily against pressing that button for him tho

Dude my tier list only has 4 steps. I think the game is in a pretty good balanced state right now and the better player will always win.

High: Mileena
Mid: Most of the Cast (Cyrax)
Mid-Low: Lackey F/T, Maybe one of Bos variation or Leather face.
Low: Warrior Predator, High Tech Jacquie

 

[God Confirm]

Dude my tier list only has 4 steps. I think the game is in a pretty good balanced state right now and the better player will always win.

High: Mileena
Mid: Most of the Cast (Cyrax)
Mid-Low: Lackey F/T, Maybe one of Bos variation or Leather face.
Low: Warrior Predator, High Tech Jacquie

yeah then you are wrong about cyrax

 

[Skedar70]

yeah then you are wrong about cyrax

No I'm not. Cyrax is heavenly downplayed.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Can we stop with the mini Leatherface downplay? I feel like we're placing him way too low here.

 

[God Confirm]

No I'm not. Cyrax is heavenly downplayed.

a minute ago you didn't even know what the character has lol

 

[cambros22]

I think he wins against:

Hi-Tech,
Warrior,
Marksman,
Lackey,
Inferno,
Balanced,
Kenjutsu.

He does not have much winning matchups, but that's fine. He has A LOT of even matchups.

What makes cyrax vs marksman a winning mu for him?

 

[xMEECH]

Not that their low tier, but getting armor removed on EXBF3 was a huge blow to Cutthroat and Cybernetic. Their only armored move now other than their xray is ex upball, which is like over -30 on whiff and will whiff if you're like inches away from him. When you get a knockdown on Cutthroat or Cybernetic, just step back a bit, out of range of upball. He can't do anything.

 

[xMEECH]

How is commando kano @CrazyFingers? I love the variation but feel it is lacking.

Commando does fine in certain matchups. His command grab mindgames make it easy to open people up up close, easier than cybernetic imo. He also has the best wakeups by FAR of any of kanos variation, exdf1 (18% unbreakable damage, hard knockdown where you're so plus you can forward dash in and easily meaty their wakeup) and ex command grabs are a blessing. The parries are really really good still, I just wish they were more plus on hit.

 

[Kroaken]

Dude my tier list only has 4 steps. I think the game is in a pretty good balanced state right now and the better player will always win.

High: Mileena
Mid: Most of the Cast (Cyrax)
Mid-Low: Lackey F/T, Maybe one of Bos variation or Leather face.
Low: Warrior Predator, High Tech Jacquie

Maybe I'm missing something as I only play hunter and a little hqt but... predator is still predator in warrior. Disc alone is an amazing tool. Great d4. Very far advancing strings....

He's his worst variation imo but he still seems alright to me.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

What makes cyrax vs marksman a winning mu for him?

Marksman has poor wakeups, his zoning is not good against Cyrax and his pressure is kinda meeh because of the stamina nerf.

 

[cambros22]

Marksman has poor wakeups, his zoning is not good against Cyrax and his pressure is kinda meeh because of the stamina nerf.

His wakeups are relativily the same across all variations. I dont think they are bad. 2 hit armor slide, 1 one command grab. markmans was always counter zoning; so he has to get in. if stamina is all that is holding markmans back, because I dont think waleups are the problem, shouldnt outlaw be bad as well. since he has to get in?

 

[Gofer_MK]

Damn dudes, time to drop the stamina nerfs card... find a way to preserve it, do not run mindlessly, you can still do a cancel. Don't be a downer.

 

[Zionix]

No I'm not. Cyrax is heavenly downplayed.

Show us some games against a top player with you as cyrax mopping.

I'd like to hear Reo's thoughts on warrior predator, I don't think he would believe it loses to cyrax. I'd imagine he would go even at least against the best cyrax players with it.

The only thing being downplayed in this thread is warrior.

 

[Kroaken]

Show us some games against a top player with you as cyrax mopping.

I'd like to hear Reo's thoughts on warrior predator, I don't think he would believe it loses to cyrax. I'd imagine he would go even at least against the best cyrax players with it.

The only thing being downplayed in this thread is warrior.

This. Doesn't even have to be a top player imo. Someone who knows the cyrax mu at all.

 

[DarksydeDash]

kenshi balanced and kenjutsu..

:'(

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

His wakeups are relativily the same across all variations. I dont think they are bad. 2 hit armor slide, 1 one command grab. markmans was always counter zoning; so he has to get in. if stamina is all that is holding markmans back, because I dont think waleups are the problem, shouldnt outlaw be bad as well. since he has to get in?

Cyrax breaks the armor of his EX command grab, Cyrax wins the trade against his EX slide (by doing a double bomb setup). Outlaw does not depends on stamina

 

[Dankster Morgan]

So apparently Cyrax only beats low tier characters and gets mopped by top tiers like Sub, Mileena, and Predator. Sounds low tier to me. Not that he is garbage but I think he is portrayed realistically.

 

[Skedar70]

So apparently Cyrax only beats low tier characters and gets mopped by top tiers like Sub, Mileena, and Predator. Sounds low tier to me. Not that he is garbage but I think he is portrayed realistically.

For some people 2-3 losing matches = low tier. Its ok Cyrax players can keep their low tier excuse card for when they lose. Done.

 

[CrazyFingers]

For some people 2-3 losing matches = low tier. Its ok Cyrax players can keep their low tier excuse card for when they lose. Done.

You do understand that about half of the people who are saying he's not that great aren't even Cyrax players right? And therefore don't have that agenda.

 

[Kroaken]

You do understand that about half of the people who are saying he's not that great aren't even Cyrax players right? And therefore don't have that agenda.

I doubt it.

@Skedar70 are you a Kitana player?

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Predator

I don't think he loses to Predador but anyways... yeah, he is low tier ~ low-mid tier... but a very good character though.

My main issues with Cyrax are hit/hurt boxes issues and anti-airs... his anti-airs are pretty good, but it should be better (actually most characters need better anti-airs)... Triborg's S3 and S4 should like 7 frames, and Cyrax's air grab should have bigger hitbox and be like 6 frames when he does it on the ground and 3 frames when he does it in air.

Fixing his hit/hurt boxes issues (especially on his F2) and buffing his anti-airs, he would be a waaaay better.

 

[STRYKIE]

As badly as Inferno has been handled over the course of the game's life, I'm not gonna do the cliche TYM thing and say it's bottom 5 with no winning matchups. (I don't meant to sound like a bigot but some of these 2015'ers should seriously have a look at MK9 Sheeva or Injustice 1 Joker to know what a character with no advantageous matchups in an NRS game really looks like). There are probably some core assets of Scorpion that still do their job in some matchups.

So in summary, is Inferno:

Redundant?
Absolutely. 100%

Bottom tier?
Can't say. Again, I don't know for sure how it's matchup chart stacks up against the rest of these supposed contenders for bottom 5 variations.

 

[Zionix]

I don't think he loses to Predador but anyways... yeah, he is low tier ~ low-mid tier... but a very good character though.

My main issues with Cyrax are hit/hurt boxes issues and anti-airs... his anti-airs are pretty good, but it should be better (actually most characters need better anti-airs)... Triborg's S3 and S4 should like 7 frames, and Cyrax's air grab should have bigger hitbox and be like 6 frames when he does it on the ground and 3 frames when he does it in air.

Fixing his hit/hurt boxes issues (especially on his F2) and buffing his anti-airs, he would be a waaaay better.

The fact that S4 net is probably a better anti air than his grab, is incredible.

Cyrax gets a full net conversion into doubles bombs from every S4 anti air he gets. Its really strong, but too many characters have divekicks or silly jump in punches that it isn't easy to make the right read.