Low tier variation problems: Who's struggling and why

[Pan1cMode]

Warrior is garbage and the worst character in the game. I have no idea why you guys just don't recognize it. Very meter hungry and no way of building it. He can't do a thing without meter and he doesn't have pressure or projectiles to be able to build it. Slow movement speed (doesn't mater if its the slowest or not its still slow af). The opponent just keeps away and its GG. If Warrior ever corners you just block one of his negative strings and its your turn again so get out and keep away again. Very slow jump speed and a huge hurtbox so you can't jump over projectiles if you have that idea. Hollywoods zoning??? WTF since when is hollywood a zoner of course any character can get in on that zoning. Try real zoners like Quan, Kitana, Pyromancer.

Worse than high tech though?

 

[RevetLeafing]

Worse than high tech though?

HighTech is still good

 

[Skedar70]

Worse than high tech though?

Not sure but I think yes. I saw the match of the yung brothers and the walk and run speed of Jacquie seem to help a lot to get in. The cancels and her plus frames also helped a lot to stay in and do something while building bar. Jacquie also has an absorb/reflect that can also help against zoners. He did struggle more when he was using High tech than when he used full auto. Warrior has nothing like that.

 

[RevetLeafing]

Not sure but I think yes. I saw the match of the yung brothers and the walk and run speed of Jacquie seem to help a lot to get in. The cancels and her plus frames also helped a lot to stay in and do something while building bar. Jacquie also has an absorb/reflect that can also help against zoners. He did struggle more when he was using High tech than when he used full auto. Warrior has nothing like that.

Yung makes High Tech look really viable

 

[Skedar70]

Yung makes High Tech look really viable

Yes he does. But he didn't completely convinced me about it. I saw that when you switched to Pyro he was forced to switch variations because he was getting behind in games. He was doing a good job in getting in on you but I could see he was struggling so he had to switch. Out of the high tech variation I only saw him use the cancels and at times the reflect so I'm not sure if it was Jacquie standard moves that were actually making the variation look good.

 

[Rude]

You don't play Warrior, you don't know shit sir. "disc in neutral to assist them" lol go record Kano spam knives after knives, switch to Warrior, try to duck a knife and throw out disc then come back here and tell me you don't get hit by the next knife and the disc is completely useless
"Holy shit you guys, Warrior players have to make reads to get in. Woe is them". Exactly like pre patch Bo, which is wow, not low tier lol, and when he's in he doesn't even play footsie as well as others
"Even if you're hitting in the upper 40% at the cost of 10% life that's still a favorable trade off" first he must sacrifice 3-5% of the previous combo for F4 hard knockdown into self destruct setup, then in order to reach 40% he has to spend another bar and end the combo with soft knockdown of BF4. The corner also makes his combos harder and less damaging. Favorable trade off yes, but isn't it too low outcome for such resource spent for such character like Warrior?
B2 is a 17f high and even after d4 on hit (+16), he can be low-poked out of his B2 lol. He has no other long range normals, everyone can walk out of his range and whiff punish.
Even REO, the tech monster left some hints behind for you guys to know how bad Warrior is. He spent time with Warrior for a month and all he has is one Warrior thread with the "tech" (watch it, it's tutorial how to spend 20% of health into 30% meterless combo into self destruct setup) and one Warrior online set (in which he didn't come close to winning a set)
For the last time, please take Warrior to the lab before discussing and saying anyone of us is huge downplayer.
@HateMe! I'm done. People still think Warrior can disc inbetween projectiles to get in

I never said I play Warrior. I said I fight against a warrior.

If you're fighting against Kano and he wants to zone, you duck knives and work your way in. Or you use your armor. It's not rocket science.

But to say he loses to Hollywood because of zoning is laughable. Yes, b2 is a high but that's what disc is for. It forces the opponent to block which opens up the use of your highs.

Given that you have to guess between + armored backhand at the end of any string or more pressure, seems fine. What, you want him to be + all the time?

You say the trade off is favorable, then downplay the trade off.

No one saying Warrior is top tier, but it's nowhere near as bad as you say.

Predator's base start-of-the match options are very good, so it's not like he can't get the first hit and start his offense.

You're using REO's ONLINE casuals as a talking point? Sure, k.

 

[Rude]

Warrior is garbage and the worst character in the game. I have no idea why you guys just don't recognize it. Very meter hungry and no way of building it. He can't do a thing without meter and he doesn't have pressure or projectiles to be able to build it. Slow movement speed (doesn't mater if its the slowest or not its still slow af). The opponent just keeps away and its GG. If Warrior ever corners you just block one of his negative strings and its your turn again so get out and keep away again. Very slow jump speed and a huge hurtbox so you can't jump over projectiles if you have that idea. Hollywoods zoning??? WTF since when is hollywood a zoner of course any character can get in on that zoning. Try real zoners like Quan, Kitana, Pyromancer.

YoloRollwhateverthefuckhisnameis was the one that made Hollywood Zoning a talking point, not me.

 

[TamedLizard]

Worse than Lackey though?

Fixed.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think warrior is kind of meh but he's not totally butt

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

YoloRollwhateverthefuckhisnameis was the one that made Hollywood Zoning a talking point, not me.

I said Hollywood Zoning is hard for Warrior to get through, that alone makes Cassie a hard matchup for Warrior, and Hollywood is the hardest. Don't act so childish

 

[Rude]

I said Hollywood Zoning is hard for Warrior to get through, that alone makes Cassie a hard matchup for Warrior, and Hollywood is the hardest. Don't act so childish

I'm acting childish by correcting someone trying to blow me up for a taking point you made?

Okay.

 

[Skedar70]

I never said I play Warrior. I said I fight against a warrior.

If you're fighting against Kano and he wants to zone, you duck knives and work your way in. Or you use your armor. It's not rocket science.

But to say he loses to Hollywood because of zoning is laughable. Yes, b2 is a high but that's what disc is for. It forces the opponent to block which opens up the use of your highs.

Given that you have to guess between + armored backhand at the end of any string or more pressure, seems fine. What, you want him to be + all the time?

You say the trade off is favorable, then downplay the trade off.

No one saying Warrior is top tier, but it's nowhere near as bad as you say.

Predator's base start-of-the match options are very good, so it's not like he can't get the first hit and start his offense.

You're using REO's ONLINE casuals as a talking point? Sure, k.

On Disc
You can't get the disc out when you are being zoned. The slow recovery on the disc allows the opponent to throw another projectile which you will have to block or get hit because you don't have enough time to recover and duck/jump it and the disc will go away on block or hit. Some characters have fast mid projectiles that you can't duck nor can you jump over because predator has a floaty slow jump and a huge hurtbox in the air. Your only option is to walk your way in and by that time the opponent has built up enough meter to break if you land a hit or go on the offensive while you are left without meter because you haven't even landed a block string.

On the armor thing.
You can't armor anything if you don't have meter. Scimitar stab no longer launches so you will need 2 bars in order to get something. Since you have no viable projectile and you cant get to your opponent you won't build the meter necessary to get anything going.

Lets say you were able to get in on the opponent. You can go for 50/50 but if you land the hit these won't give you much since you can't launch with them unless you have meter which you don't. If the opponent blocks them you will be negative enough so the opponent just goes on the offensive or escapes you and you are back in the neutral trying to get in.

Self destruct.
Its only good to activate Self destruct if you have landed a hit that will allow you to set it up near the opponent. So basically it only works on the corner after you have landed a hit that allowed a combo into a setup. If you activate it in neutral and are far from the opponent you will still need to get in and then land a hit which if you don't you will just lose 10% of life for nothing. If you activate it close the opponent the recovery is bad so the opponent will full combo punish you. Self destruct is good but only for oki in the corner, and still its not that big of a deal.

Pimp slap.
Pimp slap is a good wakeup but its significantly negative so any string that you do into pimp slap will automatically give up your turn and you are back into trying to get in or holding on your opponents offensive. To make it plus you need to spend meter which you don't have. Even if you do the string has pushback so your only option to check your opponent is a b2 and even this isn't guaranteed because some opponents can low profile it and poke. If you land a hit with ex pimp slap you get nothing because it no longer combos so the opponent doesn't have to respect your armor traps.

The lack of a way of building meter combined with how much you need in order to do something with this variation makes this variation the worse in the game.

REO is not the only one that tried to make this variation work. Scar and Sonic fox also tried. This is the only variation I am fully convinced needs something.