What's new

Low tier variation problems: Who's struggling and why

Skedar70

Noob
you do know that Reo has actually been playing a lot more lately and has said he's actually not bad anymore right?
I never heard him say Warrior is bad. I base my opinion on what I see. REO tries to make every variation work cause he is an actual lab monster. I see his streams, whenever he picks Warrior he is doesn't even come close to winning a set.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
If comparing tools aren't enough you guys may wanna think about Warrior's matchup chart
I can name at least 15 zoners post patch who can win Warrior without even touching him. The rest basically outfootsie him very hard. He has 4-6s 3-7s everywhere.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Scar and REO aren't the right hands? Who is worthy of such power then? Is Sonicfox the only one who should demonstrate to the community the hidden power of Warrior?

Warrior is garbage bro.
Its too early to say that even if you are right - which I don't believe you are.

He went from low tier to mid tier. What would be the point of these players learning a new character that isn't high tier and isn't even his best variation?

He doesn't have many bad matchups though. I think he's pretty honest, but he has some nice options and damage. He doesn't outright win against many characters if you try to play him in one archetype and his slow walk-speed means you need to take what is there. He's not garbage though. He just takes patience.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I never heard him say Warrior is bad. I base my opinion on what I see. REO tries to make every variation work cause he is an actual lab monster. I see his streams, whenever he picks Warrior he is doesn't even come close to winning a set.
Regardless of how good anyone gets, they are still them. REO is a very aggressive player. He plays best when he can dictate the pace. Warrior is best played reactively. With Warrior, you must let your opponent pick the time and place - but his tools let you handle it. Its not the way MKX is generally played and doesn't fit with what REO looks for. REO is one of the best ever, but Warrior strictly contrasts with his chosen archetype.
 

Skedar70

Noob
Regardless of how good anyone gets, they are still them. REO is a very aggressive player. He plays best when he can dictate the pace. Warrior is best played reactively. With Warrior, you must let your opponent pick the time and place - but his tools let you handle it. Its not the way MKX is generally played and doesn't fit with what REO looks for. REO is one of the best ever, but Warrior strictly contrasts with his chosen archetype.
So how is warrior supposed to be played? You say his tools can handle it. What do you mean be that?

His tools are the overhead strike which is useless unless you are at point blank from the opponent. If you dont instant it or do it full screen you will get jabbed or hit out of it because it has a huge hurtbox and no priority.

The self destruct which only useful if you are(again) at point blank with the opponent or else you will lose 10% for nothing. If you activate self destruct in the neutral you will either get punished or waste 10% life if you don't land a hit so its very risky.

His pimp slap which is negative on block so you can't continue pressure after you cancel any string into it. If you use meter it has push back the the only thing you can use to enforce the plus frames is b22 which is slow and leaves you negative and you just wasted a bar and are back in the neutral with nothing for it.

The only dirt he has is if he corners you but then again its not that big of deal like say for example Raiden or Subzero. His combos don't give you much corner carry either(depending on the stage). Just play the keep away game with him and he has absolutely nothing.

He is very meter hungry with no way of building the meter been saying the same thing for a long time this patch didn't change Warrior at all. He actually got nerfed with the removal of armored launchers.
 

HateMe!

Noob
You're acting like I said he's best in the game when that's not at all what I said, you're just a fucboi trying to shove words down my throat cause I've got a different opinion to you.
Boi, gotta love TYM

I actually genuinely asked, I spent some time with him in practice lately but came to conclusion either I can't find his dirt or there isn't any - Which makes him really weak in MKX where everyone has dumb shit.
What are the 'stupidly high damage' combos? I know corner can get up to 50-60% for 1-2 bars and that's ok, but you deal 20% to yourself in the process.
I don't think his 50/50 is something to be excited about because you have to use meter (which you don't have) every time for ex iastrike and you can get hit out of it/opponent can react if you fuck it up, and only low option is safe, both have no range.
And how do you actually get in and start your pressure, and what does it look like?
 
Reactions: GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
So how is warrior supposed to be played? You say his tools can handle it. What do you mean be that?

His tools are the overhead strike which is useless unless you are at point blank from the opponent. If you dont instant it or do it full screen you will get jabbed or hit out of it because it has a huge hurtbox and no priority.

The self destruct which only useful if you are(again) at point blank with the opponent or else you will lose 10% for nothing. If you activate self destruct in the neutral you will either get punished or waste 10% life if you don't land a hit so its very risky.

His pimp slap which is negative on block so you can't continue pressure after you cancel any string into it. If you use meter it has push back the the only thing you can use to enforce the plus frames is b22 which is slow and leaves you negative and you just wasted a bar and are back in the neutral with nothing for it.

The only dirt he has is if he corners you but then again its not that big of deal like say for example Raiden or Subzero. His combos don't give you much corner carry either(depending on the stage). Just play the keep away game with him and he has absolutely nothing.

He is very meter hungry with no way of building the meter been saying the same thing for a long time this patch didn't change Warrior at all. He actually got nerfed with the removal of armored launchers.
You clearly only think MKX can be played one way. I can't change the way you're wired to think in MKX. I'm not even sure where to start.

OK, try this. You're Warrior. Your opponent is _______________.

Let your opponent start his offense. If he does ______________, you counter with ________________.

Once you get a knockdown, you _____________________. If he gets one, you __________________.

I'm not trying to condescend. I'm just trying to get you to see what's there if you approach it this way.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Boi, gotta love TYM

I actually genuinely asked, I spent some time with him in practice lately but came to conclusion either I can't find his dirt or there isn't any - Which makes him really weak in MKX where everyone has dumb shit.
What are the 'stupidly high damage' combos? I know corner can get up to 50-60% for 1-2 bars and that's ok, but you deal 20% to yourself in the process.
I don't think his 50/50 is something to be excited about because you have to use meter (which you don't have) every time for ex iastrike and you can get hit out of it/opponent can react if you fuck it up, and only low option is safe, both have no range.
And how do you actually get in and start your pressure, and what does it look like?
He builds meter alright seeing as he can end any string in the pimp slap which is safe, then if he has a bar theres a mind game there if he's gonna armour or not so he can go into another string/poke and build more meter. You're also gonna be scared seeing as he has a really good armour move now.

He doesn't have a get in for free move but his mid range game is really good with D4, which can be cancelled into the OH or pimp slap depending on the range, instant air OH and B2. He just plays footsies or uses strike/throw mixups until he gets his momentum started and that's when he can use the dirty stuff.

He is a little meter intensive so he has to choose between setups and breaker sometimes but that doesn't warrant him being low tier imo.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
Please name these at least 15 zoners who destroy Warrior?
Jacqui Full Auto
Ermac Mystic
Kitana 3 variations
Mileena 3 variations
Sonya Special Forces
Alien Acidic, even Konjurer can bring a lot of troubles to Warrior
Quan Chi of course
HQT himself
TG Goro. The new projectile buff is a nightmare for Warrior
Tremor
Pyro and DN Tanya
Buzzsaw Kung Lao
Hollywood Cassie
Gunslinger Erron Black
Reptile all 3 variations
Pretty Lady Leatherface
Sektor
Shinnok all 3 variations
Liu Kang FF and DF
Kano all 3 variations
Kung Jin Shaolin and Ancestral
They all beat Warrior 6-4, or 7-3. Matchups like Pyro Tanya or Shinnok feels like Lex vs Zod
 
Last edited:

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Jacqui Full Auto
Ermac Mystic
Kitana 3 variations
Mileena 3 variations
Sonya Special Forces
Alien Acidic, even Konjurer can bring a lot of troubles to Warrior
Quan Chi of course
HQT himself
TG Goro. The new projectile buff is a nightmare for Warrior
Tremor
Pyro and DN Tanya
Buzzsaw Kung Lao
Hollywood Cassie
Gunslinger Erron Black
Reptile all 3 variations
Pretty Lady Leatherface
Sektor
Shinnok all 3 variations
Liu Kang FF and DF
Kano all 3 variations
Kung Jin Shaolin and Ancestral
They all beat Warrior 6-4, or 7-3. Matchups like Pyro Tanya or Shinnok feels like Lex vs Zod
This top troll. Super stuff.

A good number of these are 5/5s.

Git gud.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Drunken master.

You can basically loose half your health if you're forced to block stuff with hangover.

He constantly needs to get his drink out so he has decent tools which leaves him vulnerable or you have to spend a bar

Meditate roll is not a great answer to zoners.

Good mixups but has no midscreen presence and reaally struggle to get characters in the corner.

His d1/d3 are complete poop.

D4 is good but has really bad recovery, if you do it and they jump you're guna eat a combo.

Hes basically all the weakness's of bo, with less of the strengths which you have a huge payoff to get (hangover).

Torpedo is awesome as are his drunk punches and b4 sexy stance.

Theres guna be worse variations probably but he's gotta be bottom a 10 variation
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Drunken master.

You can basically loose half your health if you're forced to block stuff with hangover.

He constantly needs to get his drink out so he has decent tools which leaves him vulnerable or you have to spend a bar

Meditate roll is not a great answer to zoners.

Good mixups but has no midscreen presence and reaally struggle to get characters in the corner.

His d1/d3 are complete poop.

D4 is good but has really bad recovery, if you do it and they jump you're guna eat a combo.

Hes basically all the weakness's of bo, with less of the strengths which you have a huge payoff to get (hangover).

Torpedo is awesome as are his drunk punches and b4 sexy stance.

Theres guna be worse variations probably but he's gotta be bottom a 10 variation
I feel like if you could cancel monkey flip recovery frames into drink he'd be so much better and so much less clunky because my problem is always he doesnt get drink for free after mixing with overhead. It is super counter productive to do his overhead mixes because that puts you closer to vomiting. And if you burn the bar on the restand into drink you're not even plus!
 

Wigy

There it is...
I feel like if you could cancel monkey flip recovery frames into drink he'd be so much better and so much less clunky because my problem is always he doesnt get drink for free after mixing with overhead. It is super counter productive to do his overhead mixes because that puts you closer to vomiting. And if you burn the bar on the restand into drink you're not even plus!
Exactly. You're so worried about drinks all the time it completely shits on his utility.

Jason unstoppable gets a full punish on killing him if you finish your combo with fart->drink->ender because of his ressurection.

Side note that if you whiff his drunk punches, holy balls is that negative. Even if it hits them awkwardly out the air you eat a full combo
 

LeftOverShark

Tick Throw Specialist
How is commando kano @CrazyFingers? I love the variation but feel it is lacking.
Commando is godlike in with the current meta. Grapplers are really strong and have mixes. They are by no means mixing characters, but they have mixes. With commando its not a bad thing to be minus. You can use this to your advantage by using ex up ball or command grabs. He also has a great active parry that side switches and does great damage. Oh its also 4 frames. Given his tools and the fact that he is coupled with a solid projectile, commando is really strong!
 

AGRxShiroKuma

The White Bear
Commando is godlike in with the current meta. Grapplers are really strong and have mixes. They are by no means mixing characters, but they have mixes. With commando its not a bad thing to be minus. You can use this to your advantage by using ex up ball or command grabs. He also has a great active parry that side switches and does great damage. Oh its also 4 frames. Given his tools and the fact that he is coupled with a solid projectile, commando is really strong!
What would be a good reason to choose commando over cutthroat?