Doom 4

[SHAOLIN]

I feel that loadouts are there because you now have other things to fight over than just standard weapons. Demons, powerups, and power weapons.

Erm, how exactly are you "fighting over" classes? You choose them before the match begins, and in an arena/competitive shooter, engagements and the better man shouldn't be decided by a pre-match decision. It should be decided by your raw skill.

You misinterpreted what he said. Since we have standard weapons as part of our loadout instead of having it on the map we can focus more on getting power ups, doom runes and special weapons. It also deters people from camping near weapons.

Ultimately they trying to make a fair and balanced multiplayer

 

[Tony at Home]

There's no strong precedent on how doom multiplayer should play. People need to drop the self righteous nostalgia act.

There's alot of false nostalgia about the Doom series around.

Doom 1 death match was literally made on accident.

Doom 2 multiplayer was huge at the time, but it does not hold up. It's a complete camp fest, that really doesn't work.

For all intents and purposes, Doom 4 multiplayer was a blank slate. They are not "betraying" or "selling out". There was nothing to sell.

 

[Landonio]

You misinterpreted what he said. Since we have standard weapons as part of our loadout instead of having it on the map we can focus more on getting power ups, doom runes and special weapons. It also deters people from camping near weapons.

Ultimately they trying to make a fair and balanced multiplayer

...but how does not having loadouts prevent you being able to do those things? That logic makes no sense. Traditional Quake, Unreal, and Halo all had have powerups and power weapons on the map, with no loadouts. Everyone starts with the same "standard weapons" (at least in Halo, and IIRC in Unreal and Quake as well). They were the epitome of "fair and balanced". The entire game was about map control and fighting over those weapons and powerups through teamwork and skill, with very little randomness involved.

And I'm not so much talking about weapons, but also the other non-sense like equipment and "hack modules". Like, wtf? Come on now. No, just, no. Not in Doom.

Also not to mention how every shooter seems to have to have all of these unnecessary colorful customization options and fucking dance celebrations that completely take you out of the experience. These are M-rated games that they are seemingly marketing towards 12-year olds. It's fucking stupid.

My point is shit like this is not added because the developers genuinely feel that the quality of the gameplay will improve or become more competitive. They're added so CoD kids will feel at home and not feel alienated by a shooter (like Halo and Doom) that's supposed to be RADICALLY different than it, and because they feel that direction will sell them the most copies. Hell, I'm honestly surprised that sprint isn't in Doom (or is it there and I just haven't noticed it? idk).

But like I said, I haven't actually gotten my hands on it, so I COULD change my tune if I do, but I'd say it's not likely.

 

[SHAOLIN]

For all intents and purposes, Doom 4 multiplayer was a blank slate. They are not "betraying" or "selling out". There was nothing to sell.

Yeah, most of the complaints I just don't understand you know :/

Like you can't compare any previous Doom multiplayer with this Doom multiplayer, it would be silly if you tried.

 

[SHAOLIN]

...but how does not having loadouts prevent you being able to do those things? That logic makes no sense. Traditional Quake, Unreal, and Halo all had have powerups and power weapons on the map, with no loadouts. Everyone starts with the same "standard weapons" (at least in Halo, and IIRC in Unreal and Quake as well). They were the epitome of "fair and balanced". The entire game was about map control and fighting over those weapons and powerups through teamwork and skill, with very little randomness involved.

And I'm not so much talking about weapons, but also the other non-sense like equipment and "hack modules". Like, wtf? Come on now. No, just, no. Not in Doom.

Also not to mention how every shooter seems to have to have all of these unnecessary colorful customization options and fucking dance celebrations that completely take you out of the experience. These are M-rated games that they are seemingly marketing towards 12-year olds. It's fucking stupid.

My point is shit like this is not added because the developers genuinely feel that the quality of the gameplay will improve or become more competitive. They're added so CoD kids will feel at home and not feel alienated by a shooter (like Halo and Doom) that's supposed to be RADICALLY different than it, and because they feel that direction will sell them the most copies. Hell, I'm honestly surprised that sprint in Doom (or is there and I just haven't noticed it? idk).

But like I said, I haven't actually gotten my hands on it, so I COULD change my tune if I do, but I'd say it's not likely.

Honestly man I got nothing I can tell that you're very passionately against this game & nothings wrong with that. If you want to play arena-style shooter go play the Unreal Tournament 4 Alpha I heard its pretty dope. . .

 

[Landonio]

There's no strong precedent on how doom multiplayer should play. People need to drop the self righteous nostalgia act.

There's alot of false nostalgia about the Doom series around.

Doom 1 death match was literally made on accident.

Doom 2 multiplayer was huge at the time, but it does not hold up. It's a complete camp fest, that really doesn't work.

For all intents and purposes, Doom 4 multiplayer was a blank slate. They are not "betraying" or "selling out". There was nothing to sell.

My point is everything is becoming "samey". Developers (and moreso publishers) don't have the balls to actually take risks anymore. Everyone's afraid to. Going pure arena in the vain of Quake, which was basically Doom 2.0, and building off of that would have been a risk in this day and age due to the arena shooter being all but extinct. That's what a lot of people ASSUMED they were going to do (including myself), but were let down. It would have most certainly paid off if done right though, IMHO. That's why I commend a company like Dice for going full-on WW1 in the midst of the "futuristic shooter era", and doing so against EAs initial idea of what it should be.

Everyone wants to copy everyone else, and creativity within gaming (particularly in shooters) is suffering for it, in turn causing quality and skill gap reductions.

But anyway, sorry for whining and ranting, but this is just something I feel extremely passionately about and something that has bothered me for really long time within the gaming industry. I'm quite opinionated on this subject. My competitive shooter roots are in Halo 1 and 2 (as you can see by my avatar) and the original Counter-Strike, some of the most competitive and pure shooters ever made. I'm an old, cranky, "get off my lawn, kids" kinda guy when it comes to shooters, kind of like Lord Brady is when it comes to fighters. I don't mean to derail the topic or bash the game, so don't mind me.

I'll pick up the game when price drops and hopefully be able to have some fun with it.

 

[Eldriken]

Erm, how exactly are you "fighting over" classes? You choose them before the match begins, and in an arena/competitive shooter, engagements and the better man shouldn't be decided by a pre-match decision. It should be decided by your raw skill.


...and that's a bad thing how?



Now I must mention before I go into any further discussion that I have not played the game, primarily because I heard a lot of bad things from the people that played the beta, on top of it just not being what I was hoping for and expecting. Maybe if I tried it I'd have fun, but those types of games ("hybrid" shooters) generally are not my cup of tea, and I wouldn't see myself playing something like that for any long term amount of time.

I mainly just disagree strongly with that type of developer philosophy (a form of "selling out") and refuse to support companies that rip mechanics and aspects from other games and try to shoehorn them into their game and attempt to design their product around such shoehorned aspects, and not around what originally worked for them in the first place and what is proven to work. It's what killed the Halo franchise and why I absolutely despise 343 as company. They care much more about lining their pockets and appealing to young kids/the CoD crowd instead of making the best quality and most competitive game possible, and they don't care how many hardcore fans, that made the Halo name what it is today, they leave in the dust.

What's ironic and kinda funny though is that Call of Duty, that game that originally started this "copy and paste what's popular" and "the more casual the better" craze within the gaming industry, is suffering the same fate. The whole thing has come full circle, and people are finally backlashing against the whole futuristic setting, abilities, and gameplay aspects that were ripped straight from games like Titanfall, Halo, Crysis, etc (not to mention the fucking supply drop garbage). Shit that doesn't belong in Call of Duty, an ARCADE shooter that has always been based in a REALISTIC setting. There's a reason the Infinite Warfare trailer is the SECOND MOST disliked video in the HISTORY of YouTube. If only people would take that kind of stand against modern Halo and 343's bullshit. One can only dream. MCC for life (and CoD4 Remastered come November).

Also, much respect to Dice for not giving a FUH and going back to WW1 for the next Battlefield, which is fucking awesome. They even did it against EA's original wishes, and convinced EA to let them see through their vision. And the game looks amazing because of it. If only we could get Treyarch to do someting like that so we could get World at War 2. *sigh*

But anyway, maybe I'm just too old school for this generation. *another sigh* /end rant.

Never said it was a bad thing. I was just agreeing with what Metroid said. I'd prefer it to be old school arena style.

 

[Element_]

There is always gonna be criticism to any game. why it doesn't do this or why it doesn't do that. Especially with the history Doom has as a franchise. I myself, actually love it, think its fun. Big hitter in 2016 so far ! But with all that yarda yarda aside. Do you guy's think this is better than Borderlands 2? What are your opinions on them? BL2 had Offline multi-player which was great, i know. Just trying to see how it vouches against other good 1st person shooters

 

[Tony at Home]

Wouldn't really compare it to Borderlands, plays much too differently, and pretty much different genres.

Best basis for comparison is probably Serious Sam. In fact, Serious Sam would give you a better idea of how this game plays than Doom 2 would.

 

[Element_]

Wouldn't really compare it to Borderlands, plays much too differently, and pretty much different genres.

Best basis for comparison is probably Serious Sam. In fact, Serious Sam would give you a better idea of how this game plays than Doom 2 would.

It obviously plays different...we know! God...i was asking people what could potentially make it better, because BL2 was good. Your a very aggressive poster..aren't you? lol

 

[Tony at Home]

It obviously plays different...we know! God...i was asking people what could potentially make it better, because BL2 was good. Your a very aggressive poster..aren't you? lol

What?
How did it come off as aggressive?

 

[SHAOLIN]

????

 

[SHAOLIN]

Multiplayer:

Tips: if you keep a hack module in your loadout the time limit resets for the next game.

The critical hit spot is in the back ( I have not tested it thoroughly yet but this does seem like the case when I'm behind somebody and I hit them, gold letters pops up. . .).

 

[Tony at Home]

Just published a POC of the "spend money to summon demons for your team" thing

Tag is:
2RRAYELL

Just a POC. I wanted to make sure SnapMap really did support all the logic and flow control I'd need to do this.

In the POC, you kill demons to gain resources, which you can use to go to a place in the stage where you can purchase Baron demons to fight for you. You can see how much monies you've aquired on the top left of your HUD. And the text above the rune informs the player how much the demon will cost to purchase for their team.

For a nice versus mode, the way you accumulate this resource to spend may be capturing a certain point or completing objectives instead of killing dummy demons.

Important to note though : there doesn't appear to be a way to dynamically set the team of the spawned demon to the activator. This requires a slight workaround, but nothing too much.

I'll do my best to take this concept into creating a fun 2v2 map, but sharing now so people have access to this game mode's "recipe"

 

[SHAOLIN]

Just published a POC of the "spend money to summon demons for your team" thing

Tag is:
2RRAYELL

Just a POC. I wanted to make sure SnapMap really did support all the logic and flow control I'd need to do this.

In the POC, you kill demons to gain resources, which you can use to go to a place in the stage where you can purchase Baron demons to fight for you. You can see how much monies you've aquired on the top left of your HUD. And the text above the rune informs the player how much the demon will cost to purchase for their team.

For a nice versus mode, the way you accumulate this resource to spend may be capturing a certain point or completing objectives instead of killing dummy demons.

Important to note though : there doesn't appear to be a way to dynamically set the team of the spawned demon to the activator. This requires a slight workaround, but nothing too much.

I'll do my best to take this concept into creating a fun 2v2 map, but sharing now so people have access to this game mode's "recipe"

I'll download it tomorrow & give you my take on it.

 

[Zionix]

A lot of potential in this game.

But its been poorly executed so far. The direction of the playlists makes it incredibly casual, the leveling up is meaningless and with no ranked it presents no challenge.

Gun balance on the pc version is bad, in that regard I mean, 8/10 players are just running round with one of the shotguns. Why try to aim with a rocket launcher or hellshot, when you literally cannot miss with a shotgun. Both versions have too much range, too much spread (can literally cleave people) and too much damage.

That is not to say a skilled player cannot do well with almost any gun (bar static possibly), but when you think how little skill it takes to 3 shot someone with the shotgun or rinse someone with the chaingun; its rage inducing.

Couldn't care less about demons or their balance, if they were to be competitive, I assume they would have shorter durations or be demon specific.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Super fun single player

Just beat it, really enjoyed it

 

[Mikemetroid]

A lot of potential in this game.

But its been poorly executed so far. The direction of the playlists makes it incredibly casual, the leveling up is meaningless and with no ranked it presents no challenge.

Gun balance on the pc version is bad, in that regard I mean, 8/10 players are just running round with one of the shotguns. Why try to aim with a rocket launcher or hellshot, when you literally cannot miss with a shotgun. Both versions have too much range, too much spread (can literally cleave people) and too much damage.

That is not to say a skilled player cannot do well with almost any gun (bar static possibly), but when you think how little skill it takes to 3 shot someone with the shotgun or rinse someone with the chaingun; its rage inducing.

Couldn't care less about demons or their balance, if they were to be competitive, I assume they would have shorter durations or be demon specific.

PC is a madhouse. Vortex rifles and super shotties. Its gross

 

[The PantyChrist]

Does gears qualify as an arena shooter?

 

[Eldriken]

Does gears qualify as an arena shooter?

I dunno. I'm not sure if an arena shooter has to be in first person.

However, Gears has loadouts, but it has weapon spawns throughout the maps and some are power weapons that each team will fight for. So, maybe it can be considered one?

 

[SHAOLIN]

@Eldriken
@BanTheTesters
@Mikemetroid
@evolution07

Thoughts?

 

[Mikemetroid]

@Eldriken
@BanTheTesters
@Mikemetroid
@evolution07

Thoughts?

I think its kind of sad that you have to ADD free for all to Doom, but great nonetheless.

Don't really care for the DLC unless the weapon is niceee

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Bought doom for the MP, which is great and I love the level of competition and how skillful it is to be greater at this game.

My only issue is matchmaking and the lack of friends to play with (especially after overwatch). The ONE time I got 6 people together to play with it took us 20min to find a match just to have it kick half my team out. Tried again once we had everyone back and people started leaving after another half hour wait.

DLC looks good though, may give it a try if they plan on fixing the servers.

And I'm VERY surprised to not see a competitive scene for this game. The pvp is brilliant and screeeeeeams competitive play. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[BanTheTesters]

@Eldriken
@BanTheTesters
@Mikemetroid
@evolution07

Thoughts?

Its defiantly cool to see ID supporting the Doom scene with free stuff.

Im excited for the new team modes (hold mode and CTF) but im wondering if the community will embrace the more objective base modes or just revert back to playing TD or Deathmatch in general after the shine wears off...

But maybe folks will stick with the new game modes since ID has stated they are free across the board which is a VERY good deal!

 

[BanTheTesters]

Just a heads up, Doom is On sale This week for $39.99 at best buy!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/doom-xbox-one/8383834.p?id=1219332341406&skuId=8383834