General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber Sub Zero petition!

[The_Tile]

Make a thread about the buff he needs, don't make another thread about "UHHH, he got nerfed this is unfair". I've viewed 5 of those threads, just make one detailing the buffs.

Why exactly are you posting here and why the fuck would we need another thread? Like you said, there's already enough threads about CSZ being nerfed with all the things that need to be changed on the first couple of pages so why litter the forums with even more moaning.

People get the point now, the message is out and it's pretty much public consensus he was over nerfed. Its probably not gonna make a difference because NRS pretty much confirmed no more patches, but it helps when people have somewhere to vent without people like you popping in trying to make a point when there's no point to be made. It's just unnecessary.

 

[Kindred]

Make a thread about the buff he needs, don't make another thread about "UHHH, he got nerfed this is unfair". I've viewed 5 of those threads, just make one detailing the buffs.

Did you even read the petition linked in the OP? It clearly states we want the iceball to be fixed so we can link combos again. Nobody is saying "BUFF him!" only. The same requests are coming back over and over again:

- Iceball back to it's original startup frames but make the recovery longer to stop players who throw it non stop full screen
- Don't make drone summon or whiff dive kicks scale combo

 

[ThePunisher026]

Most of you guys are responding to nothing I've said in the first place. At what point did I make a point where his 7 - 3 being in his favor was not a problem. The only thing I really feel and I know others agree with me, is his start up frames for his ice ball. I truly don't mind it at all what they did to slow him down and make him a bit more equal. The main issue for strictly Cyber Sub is the ice ball start up in my honest opinion. I don't understand why so many of you are all pulling things out of context when it's something as small as that. Finally, if NRS can fix the netcode, they can fix this. Regardless of who may criticize what we're trying to do, we're going to keep trying to make him useful again. So thank you, guys who signed I'm glad you guys are supportive. Everyone else, I hope you'll help and if not, then fine. We'll simply do this without you.

 

[GAV]

I love how people cry "OMG So OP!" after 2 weeks of the character being out...

We also love how much everyone over-reacts to nerfs on day 1.

 

[Kindred]

We also love how much everyone over-reacts to nerfs on day 1.

Yup when ppl over-react over a single nerf, it's crazy. Not much of an over-reaction occured when CSZ's 1112 was nerfed.

Currently, CSZ didn't get nerfed in this patch, he got sodomized. That's why people are reacting so strongly because he got wrecked unjustifiably. Nobody, unless they've never played MKX, can deny he was hit wayyy too hard with this patch. He did avg damage (30% meterless), and had good tools that were easy to defeat when you learned the MU. Yes he needed certain tweaks like a longer recovery after the iceball, a more punisheable dive kick but what he got essentially turned him into Cyber Sub-Shitty

 

[MadeOfMetal]

If anyone tried arguing sub-zero didn't need nerfs they're horribly wrong. They did hurt him really bad tho. What you all should do is make a reasonable buff list to make sure he gets what he needs to be a good character not a stupid one.

"BUFF CSZ" ok, but what are reasonable and unreasonable buffs?


@SaltShaker you make this thread I have a feeling a lot of people don't know what they need exactly lol.

good luck, noone on this community can even agree on tier lists, let alone Buff requests.

half the people don't even know what a Vortex is.

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

Exactly. Thank you, sir! It's not like we're upset he can't do tons of damage with no meter. The problem mainly comes from the freeze ball because now most combos require spending 1 bar in order to do so. To put in perspective, imagine playing your favorite character but in order to do mid screen combos, you most likely have to spend a bar. It's unnecessary and I want you guys to tell me how the hell it makes sense. At least we're doing something about it.

Kano, Jacqui and Takeda say wassup.

 

[Kindred]

Kano, Jacqui and Takeda say wassup.

I really hope you aren't saying this as a way to insinuate that these three can't combo either so it's okay if CSZ can't either.

 

[14K]

Kano, Jacqui and Takeda say wassup.

LOOOOOOOOL oh boy Takeda is the poster child for the weakest character out there atm... and Kano man, that low damage he does is offensive, specially after the super nerfs he got lately... Jacqui is not the greatest i give you that but even then, im pretty sure she can be better than CZ0

 

[SaltShaker]

Kano, Jacqui and Takeda say wassup.

Not some of your best work.

 

[babalook]

Honestly even if they fix his iceball, he'll still suck. The only thing good about him was his corner game and they ruined it. This character should not have been nerfed again, he was nowhere close to broken.

 

[14K]

Honestly even if they fix his iceball, he'll still suck. The only thing good about him was his corner game and they ruined it. This character should not have been nerfed again, he was nowhere close to broken.

shussssh friend we are all tier whores here, we just want our oh so broken character back thus the petitions and the "crying" we CZ0 mains just need to lab it up, clearly there is something super amazing still left to be found here...smh

 

[KIllaByte]

I didn't know an ice ball immediately determines what character is number 1 or not. You guys are something else, lol. Nice attempt though! I'm sure you gave that your all.

Most combos that we learned for a month of play literally don't work as a result of that garbage.
It is absurd to ask both us and casual players to just re-learn a character for the sake of re-learning a character.

 

[_xFriction]

i wouldnt even miss the old corner game if i could have old ice ball back :/

 

[GAV]

Yup when ppl over-react over a single nerf, it's crazy. Not much of an over-reaction occured when CSZ's 1112 was nerfed.

Currently, CSZ didn't get nerfed in this patch, he got sodomized. That's why people are reacting so strongly because he got wrecked unjustifiably. Nobody, unless they've never played MKX, can deny he was hit wayyy too hard with this patch. He did avg damage (30% meterless), and had good tools that were easy to defeat when you learned the MU. Yes he needed certain tweaks like a longer recovery after the iceball, a more punisheable dive kick but what he got essentially turned him into Cyber Sub-Shitty

I play him a little though and I was having success zoning - and zoning isn't really my thing. I didn't lab. I just jumped online for player matches like I always do.

He has a hot zone and its from mid screen to 3/4. If you play to keep them back, its hard for them to get a touch. Of course, they eventually will - and subsequently run up - and his attacks are unsafe now. Still he has armor and really good attacks for getting his touch to re-establish his game.

He's no longer S+ tier, but he's still B+ to A- if you play him right - and that right about where Tremor is. It just takes someone notable to show everyone.

Its a big fall, and I get why people are pissed, because they already played him one way successfully - and that way no longer works. He's no longer the 3/4 to 1/4 range assassin. Now, he's just the 3/4 to 1/2 screen assassin.

Now, I was getting upper 30's - and now I'm getting lower 30's. I don't know how much the scaling has hurt the heavy hitters because I never got to that level in terms of combos, but I know how to play him. I knew the meta and I know the meta - which is what to do - and it has changed, but not to the point where he's no longer viable.

Tanyas and Tremors everywhere were saying the same things - and they're B+ to A- characters now too. Its not easy to go from the best character to having characters that have better arsenals, but if you stick with him - you'll overcome it because you'll keep getting better, keep finding tech, and start recognizing and making the most of opportunities you never thought were there before.

I know you see it as trolling, but I really believe that this is what we're going to have from here on - so its tough love.

Lobbying at this point, in my mind, is pointless. If its not, I won't be mad - but knowing what I know - I would be very surprised.

Now, I may be wrong in terms of viability. I was wrong about Balanced for a while. I'm usually right though. I was right about Kano, Predator, Sonya, Cassie, and many others. I'm not the best, but I do put in some work - and I stay quiet when I don't know.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I play him a little though and I was having success zoning - and zoning isn't really my thing. I didn't lab. I just jumped online for player matches like I always do.

He has a hot zone and its from mid screen to 3/4. If you play to keep them back, its hard for them to get a touch. Of course, they eventually will - and subsequently run up - and his attacks are unsafe now. Still he has armor and really good attacks for getting his touch to re-establish his game.

He's no longer S+ tier, but he's still B+ to A- if you play him right - and that right about where Tremor is. It just takes someone notable to show everyone.

Its a big fall, and I get why people are pissed, because they already played him one way successfully - and that way no longer works. He's no longer the 3/4 to 1/4 range assassin. Now, he's just the 3/4 to 1/2 screen assassin.

Now, I was getting upper 30's - and now I'm getting lower 30's. I don't know how much the scaling has hurt the heavy hitters because I never got to that level in terms of combos, but I know how to play him. I knew the meta and I know the meta - which is what to do - and it has changed, but not to the point where he's no longer viable.

Tanyas and Tremors everywhere were saying the same things - and they're B+ to A- characters now too. Its not easy to go from the best character to having characters that have better arsenals, but if you stick with him - you'll overcome it because you'll keep getting better, keep finding tech, and start recognizing and making the most of opportunities you never thought were there before.

I know you see it as trolling, but I really believe that this is what we're going to have from here on - so its tough love.

Lobbying at this point, in my mind, is pointless. If its not, I won't be mad - but knowing what I know - I would be very surprised.

you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it shows

 

[ThePunisher026]

i wouldnt even miss the old corner game if i could have old ice ball back :/

sir, please sign the petition if you haven't already. That simple comment is exactly what we want

 

[GAV]

you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it shows

You can know for sure though that I believe 100% in what I'm saying.

I'm also trying my best to walk you through my thought process. That's going to speak to readers better than, "He sucks now!"

He had a ton of tools. Now, those tools aren't as good now, but they are still there - and they still combine to create a pretty formidable arsenal.

If I thought he sucked, I would say so - but he doesn't.

 

[SaltShaker]

You can know for sure though that I believe 100% in what I'm saying.

Name 3 Top 20 characters that make you say playing CSZ is a better option than picking them?

 

[Kindred]

I play him a little though and I was having success zoning - and zoning isn't really my thing. I didn't lab. I just jumped online for player matches like I always do.

You preface a post by saying this essentially hurts your credibility a lot and it shows in the rest of your thought process that you really aren't familiar with the character. Just FYI, I played CSZ and Ermac's Master of Souls variation Only.

He has a hot zone and its from mid screen to 3/4. If you play to keep them back, its hard for them to get a touch. Of course, they eventually will - and subsequently run up - and his attacks are unsafe now. Still he has armor and really good attacks for getting his touch to re-establish his game.

I dunno what your talking about. He can't really do damage from far so zoning and keeping people away was never his go to strat. That's crazy if a CSZ did this. He was very strong as a pressure character and was a great ANTI-ZONING character because of his iceball (which made full screen trades very risky for the opponent), the bombs (which forced the opponent to move) and his Dive kick (which closed the distance quickly). Your hot zone is off and it shows you really didn't play him to be honest.

He's no longer S+ tier, but he's still B+ to A- if you play him right - and that right about where Tremor is. It just takes someone notable to show everyone.

He was Never S+ tier. This is your inexperience with the character talking because if you knew his moves and when to block or armor, he was far from difficult to deal with. A high tier challenge, yes, but S+ tier, nobody that plays him would agree with this statement. Now he is bottom tier easily because A LOT of his options were removed and nerfed. If the only nerf was the recovery of his iceball extended, then we could argue that maybe he's A- tier because he would get zoned out more easily and be VERY exposed if iceball was blocked close range. (I don't like to talk tiers anyway because nobody is in accord on a list anyway)

Now, I was getting upper 30's - and now I'm getting lower 30's. I don't know how much the scaling has hurt the heavy hitters because I never got to that level in terms of combos, but I know how to play him. I knew the meta and I know the meta - which is what to do - and it has changed, but not to the point where he's no longer viable.

upper 30s? Maybe in the corner or midscreen after using a bar pre-patch. His BnBs were around 30-32% and now are around 27% with a bar of meter. Sure you may go for swaggy combos but im talking about BnBs like F13~iceball, B1~iceball and 111~iceball.

Lobbying at this point, in my mind, is pointless.

This is the kind of attitude that keeps shit characters shitty and allows NRS to go ape shit with nerfs and buffs.

You clearly aren't very familiar with the character and jumping in online games and beating random online players the game FEELS are at your skill level means nothing in terms of understanding a character and how he's played. You want to know a character? You do what CSZ players do, or any other person that is serious about learning the intricacies of a character; you lab him/her for hours, you play countless games against people that completely wreck you to find holes in your game, and you go on forums to stay up to date on new tech & strats. Playing against a bunch of randies in online ranked is warm up.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Now, I may be wrong in terms of viability. I was wrong about Balanced for a while. I'm usually right though. I was right about Kano, Predator, Sonya, Cassie, and many others. I'm not the best, but I do put in some work - and I stay quiet when I don't know.

you said pre-patch Quan Chi was fine, everyone is whining too much and we need to level up

but you think CSZ in his current form is also fine


just shhhhhh GAV its getting too much

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Have petitions ever actually accomplished anything? Especially MK petitions?
There was Tremor, I guess, but NRS says his inclusion had already been decided before the petition went live, so,

 

[GAV]

you said pre-patch Quan Chi was fine, everyone is whining too much and we need to level up

but you think CSZ in his current form is also fine


just shhhhhh GAV its getting too much

Pre-patch Quan WAS fine.

Summoner was S, but he was very beatable. Predator, Tanya, and CSZ weren't, hence the nerfs.

CSZ is B+. Just because one character has more firepower than another doesn't mean the other needs more to be viable.

Not every character is going to be S. B+ CSZ is viable, just like B+ Tremor and B+ Erron Black.

I was on the pity-train for a while too. I thought Sun God needed help. Then, I got over it - put in work, found some new tech - and realized how wrong I was.

The memes were just me having fun, but the advice I'm giving you guys is from my heart. If he gets buffed, I won't be mad because I'm sure he'll still be fine.

I doubt its going to happen though and I hope everyone doesn't just drop him. He's still good and hype as hell to watch, IMO.

 

[GAV]

You preface a post by saying this essentially hurts your credibility a lot and it shows in the rest of your thought process that you really aren't familiar with the character. Just FYI, I played CSZ and Ermac's Master of Souls variation Only.



I dunno what your talking about. He can't really do damage from far so zoning and keeping people away was never his go to strat. That's crazy if a CSZ did this. He was very strong as a pressure character and was a great ANTI-ZONING character because of his iceball (which made full screen trades very risky for the opponent), the bombs (which forced the opponent to move) and his Dive kick (which closed the distance quickly). Your hot zone is off and it shows you really didn't play him to be honest.



He was Never S+ tier. This is your inexperience with the character talking because if you knew his moves and when to block or armor, he was far from difficult to deal with. A high tier challenge, yes, but S+ tier, nobody that plays him would agree with this statement. Now he is bottom tier easily because A LOT of his options were removed and nerfed. If the only nerf was the recovery of his iceball extended, then we could argue that maybe he's A- tier because he would get zoned out more easily and be VERY exposed if iceball was blocked close range. (I don't like to talk tiers anyway because nobody is in accord on a list anyway)



upper 30s? Maybe in the corner or midscreen after using a bar pre-patch. His BnBs were around 30-32% and now are around 27% with a bar of meter. Sure you may go for swaggy combos but im talking about BnBs like F13~iceball, B1~iceball and 111~iceball.



This is the kind of attitude that keeps shit characters shitty and allows NRS to go ape shit with nerfs and buffs.

You clearly aren't very familiar with the character and jumping in online games and beating random online players the game FEELS are at your skill level means nothing in terms of understanding a character and how he's played. You want to know a character? You do what CSZ players do, or any other person that is serious about learning the intricacies of a character; you lab him/her for hours, you play countless games against people that completely wreck you to find holes in your game, and you go on forums to stay up to date on new tech & strats. Playing against a bunch of randies in online ranked is warm up.

So, are you winning with him? Because I'm winning with him. I may not be the best CSZ, but I'm winning with him.

You guys see me as an obstacle to buffs for CSZ. I think your line of thinking is believing in a pipe dream. I even signed your petition. I highly doubt that our petition will make any difference what-so-ever. I'm not blocking buffs. I'm trying to pep talk you into figuring out for yourself that he's still pretty good.

 

[GAV]

Name 3 Top 20 characters that make you say playing CSZ is a better option than picking them?

When I played him today, I beat a good Goro pretty handily. I beat a solid Summoner. I beat a good Flame Fists. I beat a decent Royal Storm. Then, I lost a close set to a swaggy Ninjitsu Scorpion. Then, I lost a close set to a very twitchy GM. Then, I beat up on a pair of Tempests back to back. Everyone I played had heavy winning records.

Then, I switched to Sun God - and tore up that same twitchy GM - before he switched to Cryo before rage quitting. Then, I beat a very good Goro player. Then, I lost a set to a very bad ass Fire BRC.

Do you guys really think I'm lobbying against CSZ? I'm just trying to tell you that he's still pretty good. I think if you could re-learn him, you would see what I'm trying to show you. You just gotta forget about how you played him before and go back to the drawing board. Keep the combos, but change the meta.

Sun God, I've been on since the beginning, but my CSZ isn't that far off of my SG.