General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber Sub Zero petition!

[MadeOfMetal]

Not signing it cause although I believe he is pretty bad now, I have no sympathy for characters in need of buffs. Not after how they dealt with Kenshi in this game.

This is whats wrong with the community.

Screw everyone else's Character, just make mine better.

you can't get buffs if mine don't get any.

Nerf their character because mine is mid tier and im salty about it.

it is a childish mentality, and that is the only thing that needs to be nerfed, the notion that we can't lab up a matchup for a month before we get a character nerfed.

 

[Zabru]

Thats the most (soap bar in my mouth) way of thinking, and thats why this community is for the most part garbage... childish mentality of well my character isnt "good" so i dont want other characters to be good either... smh, do your thing dude, no one is forcing you to help/ contribute anything, no need either to post that you dont want to contribute

EDIT: lolol at the censored words in this thread

Why would I encourage NRS to buff a character that even after nerfs is stronger then my main? My main that I have been asking for buffs for an entire year yet is still the worst character in the game. Yet CSZ is out for not time at all and should get buffed why? Cause he's DLC? That just wouldn't be right and every time another character is nerfed it's a tiny buff for me.

I need this man, I really do. So your just gonna have to hold this. They don't buff characters cause the player base wants them to. NRS has taught me that lesson. CSZ is just as doomed as Kenshi is, get over it.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

First Kitana's f1 overhead. She's on the roster way before Tremor and Cyber Sub-Zero.

You already got your buffs, pls no more buff kitana pls no.

 

[14K]

Why would I encourage NRS to buff a character that even after nerfs is stronger then my main? My main that I have been asking for buffs for an entire year yet is still the worst character in the game. Yet CSZ is out for not time at all and should get buffed why? Cause he's DLC? That just wouldn't be right and every time another character is nerfed it's a tiny buff for me.

I need this man, I really do. So your just gonna have to hold this. They don't buff characters cause the player base wants them to. NRS has taught me that lesson. CSZ is just as doomed as Kenshi is, get over it.

Kenshi got buffed on a couple occasions already?!?!? his not top of the crop but he is quite decent, only the balanced variation could use some more help the others are somewhat fine...You dont know much about CZ0 if you think Kenshi is worse than him...

Ur problem is not that you need this, Your problem is with that attitude, your whats wrong with this community and you are your characters own worse enemy, The community needs to Force NRS to learn how to do things properly because apparently they cannot do it on their own...

Oh im well over it, im not playing this game anymore due to this last patch... BUT as a PART of the community and a former CZ0 main its my duty to help and vocalize my discontent for the way they do stuff because i did pay good money for this game... and this goes for any character that needs it, be it CZ0 Kenshi or anyone else... We want a Game that is within reason as balanced as possible so that tornaments are interesting to watch with as much character variety as possible, not the same tired ol characters over and over and over. But like i said you are free to chose how productive within the comunity you want to be, no one is forcing you to do anything, plz be my guest and feel free to not do anything.

 

[Zabru]

@14K Lol if you look at the kenshi forums I literally said the exact stuff you are saying right now just about Kenshi. I think you misunderstood me. I want CSZ to be buffed. The reason I'm not signing the petition isn't because I have "my character isn't good so yours isn't either" mentality. I've just learnt that no matter how much effort you put into bringing light to the situation, NRS just doesn't really care man.

That's what I meant when I said: "not after how they dealt with Kenshi in this game". Kenshi mains have been doing what you are doing now for a year, so take my word on this when I say if he isn't buffed next patch you might as well forget it.

 

[14K]

@14K Lol if you look at the kenshi forums I literally said the exact stuff you are saying right now just about Kenshi. I think you misunderstood me. I want CSZ to be buffed. The reason I'm not signing the petition isn't because I have "my character isn't good so yours isn't either" mentality. I've just learnt that no matter how much effort you put into bringing light to the situation, NRS just doesn't really care man.

That's what I meant when I said: "not after how they dealt with Kenshi in this game". Kenshi mains have been doing what you are doing now for a year, so take my word on this when I say if he isn't buffed next patch you might as well forget it.

Oh but i know they dont, ill still help ofc, but im quite aware they dont give 2 Shits about it, thats why im not playing this game anymore

 

[exflyingbooty]

@14K Lol if you look at the kenshi forums I literally said the exact stuff you are saying right now just about Kenshi. I think you misunderstood me. I want CSZ to be buffed. The reason I'm not signing the petition isn't because I have "my character isn't good so yours isn't either" mentality. I've just learnt that no matter how much effort you put into bringing light to the situation, NRS just doesn't really care man.

That's what I meant when I said: "not after how they dealt with Kenshi in this game". Kenshi mains have been doing what you are doing now for a year, so take my word on this when I say if he isn't buffed next patch you might as well forget it.

Kenshi has been buffed in a lot of patches, sorry they weren't buffs that you specifically wanted it did happen. Also the kitana and Mileena community have been very vocal about the changes they needed and it happened. So please don't misspread info.

 

[Zabru]

Kenshi has been buffed in a lot of patches, sorry they weren't buffs that you specifically wanted it did happen. Also the kitana and Mileena community have been very vocal about the changes they needed and it happened. So please don't misspread info.

Don't be sorry. I understand that they want to buff the series's staples that get people into the game in the first place.

 

[boba_buster]

I saw Madzin pulling some against HoneyBee today, granted they're no way near what they used to be, but some characters have zero dirt on the other hand. Again, I'm not saying that the nerfs the character received in general were fine, I'm not one of the "nerf Tri-Borg" zealots and I think he is low tier, just answering the quoted part.

The maneuver ability that I also mentioned in that phrase is really good. Really hard to zone out (slide goes under Mid projectiles like Sub-Zero's and his dive-kicks while not the best as a proper hit, are the best in terms of repositioning himself).



I think you meant a different move, F33 has some of the biggest gaps when special canceled in Sub-Zero's arsenal. F33 alone as a safe scouting move is ok but you shouldn't abuse it as it's a lost turn. You can't use that string for pressure if you're not intentionally losing the game. If anything you can armor bait with EX Hammer as your slower armor move will hit later and win the armor trade but a move whose only use for a cancel is to take advantage of hitting slower can't be a pressure string.



I was mostly talking about the variations that don't have a klone that almost everyone forgets about when they think about Sub-Zero. Granted this is a negative effect from sharing a moveset that has to be balanced taking the variation with a klone into account, but it still sucks.

^ this
I'm so sick of ppl always acting like sub zero has a Klone in every vari
Every good sub main I know plays at least cryo for many MU's

 

[rev0lver]

As far as the ice ball goes, I think most would agree that the problem is with conversions, not with the speed of it as a zoning tool. Ice ball being a few frames slower isn't a big deal as long as normal combos still work. But the nerfs make us spend resources for mediocre damage. As I said earlier, that wouldn't be a big deal if there were great setup options to end combos with as a tradeoff, but if you have to use an iceball those options are just as mediocre as his damage. It's just odd that they nerf every aspect like that.

I've been thinking a lot of things come down to flaws in Triborg's design in general too. Balancing mostly the same normals through 4 wildly different variations is pretty difficult. What might help CSZ convert, extend his combos, give better setups, etc could potentially break another variation. I wish there were more unique normals/strings in the triborg variations so they could be individually focused on better

 

[KingKhrystopher]

This is why I avoid this site as it is. People love to come into threads and not offer any type of contribution to the thread progressing at all, just post a picture and are done with it. Pathetic. You give me more cancer than any match-up or god tier character I've ever had to face in this game.

 

[RiBBz22]

As far as the ice ball goes, I think most would agree that the problem is with conversions, not with the speed of it as a zoning tool. Ice ball being a few frames slower isn't a big deal as long as normal combos still work. But the nerfs make us spend resources for mediocre damage. As I said earlier, that wouldn't be a big deal if there were great setup options to end combos with as a tradeoff, but if you have to use an iceball those options are just as mediocre as his damage. It's just odd that they nerf every aspect like that.

I've been thinking a lot of things come down to flaws in Triborg's design in general too. Balancing mostly the same normals through 4 wildly different variations is pretty difficult. What might help CSZ convert, extend his combos, give better setups, etc could potentially break another variation. I wish there were more unique normals/strings in the triborg variations so they could be individually focused on better

I see what you are saying in theory, but in reality I don't think the character was that far off. A few minor tweaks could have been made that didn't change his entire game plan, and wouldn't have affected the balance of the other variations IMO.

The amount of nerfs and the way they affected the character were ridiculous. I fully believe there was no attempt to balance the character and instead the goal was just to definitely make the character low enough tier that it would not cause huge ripples at ESL/tournaments. Pretty unfortunate for CSZ mains, because this is the closest thing to Injutice Scorpion level nerfs we have seen. I typically stick with a character through nerfs like I did with Cassie/Scorp, but these changes are so obviously overboard that there is no point.

 

[ZigZag]

I love that people sit here and say "Oh it's okay CSZ gets nerfed (into an abysmal state) because he was strong!"

Meanwhile.. Mileena.

Okay, TYM = It doesn't matter who gets nerfed I just want my main buffed, anyone elses nerfs are justified and people are tier whores.
Yes because all of us day 1 CSZ players are tier whores for getting a good character.

Roll back one patch and we'll be sweet, heck i'll take the Drone summon scaling meaning we can't get free mid combo drones that's fine but the rest of that patch was mind boggling, Heck if I have to spend meter for a low 30% combo I can live with it but I want to have a safe dive kick when it hits the ankle and I want to summon drones mid combo and dive without scaling.

I'm open to reason but why can't this character be strong?
After the vortex was virtually taken from him in the first patch I think he was strong but not broken by any means, If anyone thought otherwise i'm guessing they didn't lab long enough.

 

[Kindred]

I love that people sit here and say "Oh it's okay CSZ gets nerfed (into an abysmal state) because he was strong!"

Meanwhile.. Mileena.

Okay, TYM = It doesn't matter who gets nerfed I just want my main buffed, anyone elses nerfs are justified and people are tier whores.
Yes because all of us day 1 CSZ players are tier whores for getting a good character.

Roll back one patch and we'll be sweet, heck i'll take the Drone summon scaling meaning we can't get free mid combo drones that's fine but the rest of that patch was mind boggling, Heck if I have to spend meter for a low 30% combo I can live with it but I want to have a safe dive kick when it hits the ankle and I want to summon drones mid combo and dive without scaling.

I'm open to reason but why can't this character be strong?
After the vortex was virtually taken from him in the first patch I think he was strong but not broken by any means, If anyone thought otherwise i'm guessing they didn't lab long enough.

I love how people cry "OMG So OP!" after 2 weeks of the character being out...

 

[Sugarwatermixlegit]

At this point we need a petition subfourm. The amount of MK petitions is just insane.

 

[DDutchguy]

I love how people cry "OMG So OP!" after 2 weeks of the character being out...

The tech that people found in those two weeks was notable enough to warrant a nerf (Reo showed what Cyber Sub could do in the corner and no, not just the B3D4 setup). If it took only two weeks to find all that, imagine what could've been found in the two weeks after that.

 

[14K]

The tech that people found in those two weeks was notable enough to warrant a nerf (Reo showed what Cyber Sub could do in the corner and no, not just the B3D4 setup). If it took only two weeks to find all that, imagine what could've been found in the two weeks after that.

hmm i can imagine yes it has a name Its called Johnny Cage, and he is still around and i hope his not getting nerfed so i can laugh very hard

 

[Kindred]

The tech that people found in those two weeks was notable enough to warrant a nerf (Reo showed what Cyber Sub could do in the corner and no, not just the B3D4 setup). If it took only two weeks to find all that, imagine what could've been found in the two weeks after that.

I can turn your statement around and say; Imagine what counter measures could've been found in the 2 weeks after that.
If nerfs are to be handed out very early, then it has to be like the nerf to the 1112. Very specific. Nerfing a whole bunch of moves this early after a character's release should never be done because the character and the strategies against him are no where near flushed out.

The point i was really trying to make is that the most recent patch seems to be done on a knee jerk reaction...As though the person responsible for it had their dog run over by a CSZ player. It's unwarranted and dumb.

 

[RiBBz22]

The tech that people found in those two weeks was notable enough to warrant a nerf (Reo showed what Cyber Sub could do in the corner and no, not just the B3D4 setup). If it took only two weeks to find all that, imagine what could've been found in the two weeks after that.

Warranting a nerf and balancing a character is 100% different than what happened with Cyber Sub Zero. Cyber Sub was put into an unplayable state. Rather than leaving him in a very strong position, I am assuming the decision was to take so much away that there would be no chance the character could be seen as being OP going into ESL and the EVO tournament season. All posts that generalize what happened to CSZ as "he was very strong, so nerfs are justified" without even researching the impacts are completely idiotic.

 

[JJvercetti]

This is whats wrong with the community.



it is a childish mentality, and that is the only thing that needs to be nerfed, the notion that we can't lab up a matchup for a month before we get a character nerfed.

No, whats wrong with the community is that people are petitioning for things like this when they should have been sticking together when PC got shafted, I bet that the majority of the people who signed this sub petition turned the other cheek when the PC petition was made.

 

[Kindred]

I don't get it though....are there people that ACTUALLY think these nerfs were a good idea or are people just thinking fuck it because NRS is not gonna do jack shit?

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't get it though....are there people that ACTUALLY think these nerfs were a good idea or are people just thinking fuck it because NRS is not gonna do jack shit?

The latter.

 

[exflyingbooty]

If anyone tried arguing sub-zero didn't need nerfs they're horribly wrong. They did hurt him really bad tho. What you all should do is make a reasonable buff list to make sure he gets what he needs to be a good character not a stupid one.

"BUFF CSZ" ok, but what are reasonable and unreasonable buffs?


@SaltShaker you make this thread I have a feeling a lot of people don't know what they need exactly lol.

 

[The_Tile]

If anyone tried arguing sub-zero didn't need nerfs they're horribly wrong. They did hurt him really bad tho. What you all should do is make a reasonable buff list to make sure he gets what he needs to be a good character not a stupid one.

"BUFF CSZ" ok, but what are reasonable and unreasonable buffs?


@SaltShaker you make this thread I have a feeling a lot of people don't know what they need exactly lol.

All people are really asking for is for iceball to link meterless off all his starters again. It's just stupid he can't even get any damage or corner carry off his most utilised strings.

 

[exflyingbooty]

All people are really asking for is for iceball to link meterless off all his starters again. It's just stupid he can't even get any damage or corner carry off his most utilised strings.

Make a thread about the buff he needs, don't make another thread about "UHHH, he got nerfed this is unfair". I've viewed 5 of those threads, just make one detailing the buffs.