General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber Sub Zero petition!

[ThePunisher026]

I said this in a previous post on the Cyber Sub Zero boards, and I'm serious about it. I started a petition to try getting NRS to fix his Ice Ball. Truthfully, I figured we (or I if you guys don't support me on it) have nothing to lose. Also, I'm curious to know if it'll actually work. At least let Cyber Sub Zero have a fighting chance!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/397/260/113/fix-triborg-in-mkxl/#sign

 

[Krabman]

Give tremor a 7f d1 first

 

[Lokheit]

Sometimes I wonder if people know that human Sub-Zero's iceball is 31 frames.

 

[Osagri]

Plz

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Sometimes I wonder if people know that human Sub-Zero's iceball is 31 frames.

Does that stop your F4, B12, or B2 from stringing meterless into combo?

 

[Vigilante24]

CSZ tears taste so good.

 

[Lokheit]

Does that stop your F4, B12, or B2 from stringing meterless into combo?

I think CSZ got a hit, don't get me wrong, but he can still combo from many strings and just like Sub-Zero, the number of strings he can combo from increases in the corner.

CSZ still has one of the best mobilities in the whole game plus some setups. Sub-Zero has F4 jailing into anything (but no pressure after that), good but not as good mobility and no dirt on most variations. I don't agree with most of the things that hit Tri-Borg in the patch but that iceball was crazy fast when compared with similar moves (not to mention it has the same damage scaling than Sub-Zero EX Iceball, making it superior to his regular Iceball in speed and damage scaling).

 

[14K]

I said this in a previous post on the Cyber Sub Zero boards, and I'm serious about it. I started a petition to attempt NRS to fixing his Ice Ball. Truthfully, I figured we (or I if you guys don't support me on it) have nothing to lose. Also, I'm curious to know if it'll actually work. At least let Cyber Sub Zero have a fighting chance!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/397/260/113/fix-triborg-in-mkxl/#sign

I really appreciate this and what ur doing, and that goes for any characters that needs buffs or need their stuff unnerfed like what happened to CZ0. but this seriously will be of no effect, if they knew what they where doing, this wouldnt be a problem in the first place correct?... It is a fact that CZ0 needed a couple changes, but they went overboard because they dont know what they are doing so they are just covering all their basis... I say this for CZ0 but that goes for any character that is in the same place he is atm... You obviously have the support of the CZ0 guys that have been hammering at this issue since the patch day, but i still dont think they will do anything about it because if "you" dont know what your doing wrong, you wont be able to fix it correctly even if you try this is an aparent issue with NRS games... they cannot keep it in their pants and let the game evolve, because they want to drop support for it and are afraid that something on the dlc characters will be discovered and be complitely broken, so they just reck the DLCs so much so that nothing could be remotely decent...

PS: High5 to Tom Brady for showcasing something obviously broken to an already extremely good character... Way to be Johnny Cage never let them take u alive...

PPS: try to share this petition on other mediums as well might cause more of an impact

 

[DDutchguy]

While I do think Cyber Sub is in the low end of the tier list, a petition like this isn't necessary in my opinion. Hell, just make F13~Iceball work again and I'll have everything I want.

 

[ThePunisher026]

While I do think Cyber Sub is in the low end of the tier list, a petition like this isn't necessary in my opinion. Hell, just make F13~Iceball work again and I'll have everything I want.

@DDutchguy That's what I put in the description

 

[SaltShaker]

I'll sign, though patches are all but done now so I doubt this will make a difference. All the fighting in the world didn't get Injustice Scorpion buffed after he was nerfed to oblivion. At this stage it's either stick to CSZ and try to make him work somehow someway as a Low Tier Hero, or move on to a clear cut viable character.

Sometimes I wonder if people know that human Sub-Zero's iceball is 31 frames.

I agree. Since it's an iceball they work exactly the same for both characters. Clearly that's what makes sense. If nobody listens, remind them that all backdashes work the same too.

CSZ tears taste so good.

Your tongue is one of the first to taste those tears high on top of Wrestler Jax Mountain, as they drop down lower and lower to lesser characters and variations. I can imagine they must taste delicious from up there.

 

[Lokheit]

I agree. Since it's an iceball they work exactly the same for both characters. Clearly that's what makes sense. If nobody listens, remind them that all backdashes work the same too.

That's not what I meant but I guess that's my fault for not providing a whole argument. Just a reminder that it could be worse, as I said in my other post I think Tri-Borg didn't deserve most of the stuff he got in the patch, but I think the iceball was too fast for that type of move, specially given the character's ability to maneuver and access to setups (some of that got hit by the patch though).

I think some strings not connecting into Iceball isn't a problem. He wouldn't be the first character unable to combo from either a Low or an OH without meter midscreen. There were other things that hurt him way more than his iceball getting a speed nerf IMHO.

 

[Kindred]

Seriously ppl just sign the fucking petition so that CSZ can at least be mid tier. Don't settle for mediocrity.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

i signed for Cyrax and CSZ

i also think the adjustments to smoke didn't need to be done, and Sektor was fine.


but i do get that Cyrax was broken as hell.

and Cyber sub zero was very strong.


but this was too much and was handled poorly:



make CSZ's freeze 5 frames faster on Starup. and malke his recovery on freeze 5 frames longer. then he will have his starters back and still won't be able to machine gun freeze. its fair and certainly not asking to much to have that.


Cyrax should have had Net knock them down, instead of restanding them when they drop out. this would have removed Reset and kept his Kombos intact.

He also needs launching armor, and F13 to reach farther, characters like Mileena can abuse B12 without punishment or any option from cyrax.
it also wouldn't hurt to have Metered net after bomb connect. that's a fair adjustment and nothing i have asked for is too much.

get on it NRS

help Triborg live

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I think CSZ got a hit, don't get me wrong, but he can still combo from many strings and just like Sub-Zero, the number of strings he can combo from increases in the corner.

Except while Sub-Zero's B3 is safe everywhere, CSZ's B3 is always punishable, and while Sub Zero's B2 can be made a difficult challenge from behind the clone, all CSZ has is B1~Iceball. Sub Zero gets nearly 40% into set-up, CSZ gets like 30% into nothing other than Slide knockdown

CSZ still has one of the best mobilities in the whole game plus some setups.

Oh yeah? news to me? What's his set-ups? Care to explain what these set-ups are

Sub-Zero has F4 jailing into anything (but no pressure after that), good but not as good mobility and no dirt on most variations.

F33~Ice Blast is much better pressure than absolutely anything CSZ has.

but that iceball was crazy fast when compared with similar moves (not to mention it has the same damage scaling than Sub-Zero EX Iceball, making it superior to his regular Iceball in speed and damage scaling).

No it's not. It's significantly slower than Ermac's Soul Ball, Hat Trick's Hatarang and other moves. Remember, Grand Master is SUPPOSED to have worse options than other characters in the neutral because he has the fucking Ice Clone to make up for it. Also, especially since the Ice Clone basically gives you a free Iceball safely, his needs to slower than the rest of the casts.



Sometimes I swear you people dont even understand what these changes have done to him before speaking on it. The speed of CSZ's Iceball has absolutely nothing to do with the speed of GM's Iceball, they are two different characters who need two different things to be balanced. Or remind me what the speed on CSZ's Ice Clone is again?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

That's not what I meant but I guess that's my fault for not providing a whole argument. Just a reminder that it could be worse, as I said in my other post I think Tri-Borg didn't deserve most of the stuff he got in the patch, but I think the iceball was too fast for that type of move, specially given the character's ability to maneuver and access to setups (some of that got hit by the patch though).

I think some strings not connecting into Iceball isn't a problem. He wouldn't be the first character unable to combo from either a Low or an OH without meter midscreen. There were other things that hurt him way more than his iceball getting a speed nerf IMHO.

well you think wrong. not freaking on ya, but you realize that they could have lengthened his recovery on freeze and kept him from Machine gunning freeze just the same, except he could still use all his starters.

 

[SaltShaker]

That's not what I meant but I guess that's my fault for not providing a whole argument. Just a reminder that it could be worse, as I said in my other post I think Tri-Borg didn't deserve most of the stuff he got in the patch, but I think the iceball was too fast for that type of move, specially given the character's ability to maneuver and access to setups (some of that got hit by the patch though).

I think some strings not connecting into Iceball isn't a problem. He wouldn't be the first character unable to combo from either a Low or an OH without meter midscreen. There were other things that hurt him way more than his iceball getting a speed nerf IMHO.

Nerfs? Fair enough. As I said before (once my original salt induced tirade wore off at least) I don't really have an issue with nerfs, it's the nerfs they decided to go with while saying it's ok for the Top Tier to reign supreme. Sub's iceball is slower because he uses his tools differently. Sub has a "bad neutral" at times supposedly with his lesser normals, but F4, B33, D4, B2, crossup punch, are better than any normals in CSZ entire normals movelist. He shouldn't machine gun Iceball, but making it this slow was very detrimental to what he needs to use it for. Setups, which I keep hearing, are borderline extinct. I mean there's some low budget setups left, but all the "OMG REO's VIDEO" stuff is gone.

Take your Ice ball comparison. Now compare it to DiveKick. Sonya full combos on hit, Jin full combo, etc. CSZ got nerfs to where he has a 7% doesn't even knock down full combo punishable DK. Now tell me how effective it is? This is just one example of the many why the CSZ community seems so upset. The other side is "don't compare character tools", but when you do all you see is inferior tools in every category to be compared.

 

[Airvidal]

#HelpTriborgBeTheBestInTheGame
'cause you need a top tier to win.


s1 being +19 haha come on

 

[ThePunisher026]

#HelpTriborgBeTheBestInTheGame
'cause you need a top tier to win.


s1 being +19 haha come on

Clearly you just wanted something to say. I never said anything about any other buffs except his Ice Ball.

 

[GAV]

 

[I GOT HANDS]

if you think he was number one before the patch, it's time to put the memes down for a month, relearn the game then come back with some stuff that's actually on point



I laugh when people call me a tier whore. I mained Unbreakable > to Hat Trick > to pre-MKXL Hellfire > to post patch CSZ. Every single one of those characters will 7-3 a post POST patch CSZ of equal skill.

 

[Lokheit]

Oh yeah? news to me? What's his set-ups? Care to explain what these set-ups are

I saw Madzin pulling some against HoneyBee today, granted they're no way near what they used to be, but some characters have zero dirt on the other hand. Again, I'm not saying that the nerfs the character received in general were fine, I'm not one of the "nerf Tri-Borg" zealots and I think he is low tier, just answering the quoted part.

The maneuver ability that I also mentioned in that phrase is really good. Really hard to zone out (slide goes under Mid projectiles like Sub-Zero's and his dive-kicks while not the best as a proper hit, are the best in terms of repositioning himself).

F33~Ice Blast is much better pressure than absolutely anything CSZ has.

I think you meant a different move, F33 has some of the biggest gaps when special canceled in Sub-Zero's arsenal. F33 alone as a safe scouting move is ok but you shouldn't abuse it as it's a lost turn. You can't use that string for pressure if you're not intentionally losing the game. If anything you can armor bait with EX Hammer as your slower armor move will hit later and win the armor trade but a move whose only use for a cancel is to take advantage of hitting slower can't be a pressure string.

Also, especially since the Ice Clone basically gives you a free Iceball safely, his needs to slower than the rest of the casts.

I was mostly talking about the variations that don't have a klone that almost everyone forgets about when they think about Sub-Zero. Granted this is a negative effect from sharing a moveset that has to be balanced taking the variation with a klone into account, but it still sucks.

 

[ThePunisher026]

I didn't know an ice ball immediately determines what character is number 1 or not. You guys are something else, lol. Nice attempt though! I'm sure you gave that your all.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I saw Madzin pulling some against HoneyBee today, granted they're no way near what they used to be, but some characters have zero dirt on the other hand. Again, I'm not saying that the nerfs the character received in general were fine, I'm not one of the "nerf Tri-Borg" zealots and I think he is low tier, just answering the quoted part.

I know, but what you saw was smoke and mirrors against a player who doesn't know the match up. CSZ's practical set-up does not exist, if someone wants to tell me what it is and prove me wrong by all means and I'll hold that, but till then we gotta stop saying he has something he doesn't.

The maneuver ability that I also mentioned in that phrase is really good. Really hard to zone out (slide goes under Mid projectiles like Sub-Zero's and his dive-kicks while not the best as a proper hit, are the best in terms of repositioning himself).

Ok so he's got a Slide equal to Sub-Zero's but worse than Reptiles.... he's got a much worse backdash and the worst divekick in the game... and this is the ONLY selling point the character has, his "mobility"

I think you meant a different move, F33 has some of the biggest gaps when special canceled in Sub-Zero's arsenal. F33 alone as a safe scouting move is ok but you shouldn't abuse it as it's a lost turn. You can't use that string for pressure if you're not intentionally losing the game. If anything you can armor bait with EX Hammer as your slower armor move will hit later and win the armor trade but a move whose only use for a cancel is to take advantage of hitting slower can't be a pressure string.

You don't have to cancel it though thats why it's pressure, not a blockstring. And its still LEAGUES better than anything CSZ has which was the only statement, this isn't a Grandmaster thread mate

I was mostly talking about the variations that don't have a klone that almost everyone forgets about when they think about Sub-Zero. Granted this is a negative effect from sharing a moveset that has to be balanced taking the variation with a klone into account, but it still sucks.

You mean Unbreakable and Cyromancer? Fine, I agree they are both underpowered, however the answer isn't buffing their universal tools that affect GM, nor is the answer nerfing CSZ's Iceball so that he is Sub-Zero without the clone. We only got ONE variation brah lets focus on getting it raised above the absolute worst variation in the entire game

 

[14K]

if you think he was number one before the patch, it's time to put the memes down for a month, relearn the game then come back with some stuff that's actually on point



I laugh when people call me a tier whore. I mained Unbreakable > to Hat Trick > to pre-MKXL Hellfire > to post patch CSZ. Every single one of those characters will 7-3 a post POST patch CSZ of equal skill.

That nr 1 Cyber Sub tho! Every pro immediatly dropped what they used to play this oh so amazing character with only 7 - 3s in his favor, first 2 majors with DLC allowed all we saw was Cyber Subs because he was simply to God tier not to use, we are all a bunch of tier Whores #CyberSubtierWhoresDeservedit!