General/Other - Shaolin Kung Jin (Shaolin) Discussion Thread

[TackyHaddock]

What about 23 being a 7 frame high to mid pop-up opposed to whatever it is now? So we have an option to punish with meterless damage. More meterless damage options would be the deciding factor of ShaoJin being A+ to S

23? are you referring to 24?

 

[Trustypatches]

I see Shaolin as potential S tier in the beta build (thanks to nerfs of other characters, some of which I saw as potential bad MU's) so in short I would say no to any buffs other than fixes on some of his whiff issues.

With ex cartwheel, ex chakram, a great low starter and a fairly react-able oh, the character has more than enough ways to open someone up imo. Not to mention how rewarding his throw is, with how it effectively gives a guaranteed run up b1 midscreen on top of the 12%. I also think the character doesn't even need to open you up 100% of the time, seeing how many of his blockstrings into upkick shaolin drop do up to 7.13% chip and build half a bar while still remaining safe.

Personally I think that if this character could make you guess that much off of a 13 frame low with that much range it would be silly. With the 2 being an oh, the mixups would be: b12xx ex chakram, b1xx ex chakram, b12xx ex cartwheel and if there was any good fuzzy to deal with this something like b1xx ex cartwheel would still exist to mess with it. Also forgot to mention that the safe meterless option that does chip and builds bar (b12 xx upkick shoalin drop) would end up still being a mixup thanks to b12.

 

[Trustypatches]

From 111 or 221 it jails (although there is a gap in 221 string), and from the OH or Low string the chakram does not jail on return.

The chakram doesn't usually jail on return from the f24 (oh) string, however it is pretty range dependent. If you do f24 at further ranges it shouldn't have the gap on return. But yeah b12 xx ex chakram should always have a gap because of how advancing the 2 is.

 

[TackyHaddock]

I see Shaolin as potential S tier in the beta build (thanks to nerfs of other characters, some of which I saw as potential bad MU's) so in short I would say no to any buffs other than fixes on some of his whiff issues.

With ex cartwheel, ex chakram, a great low starter and a fairly react-able oh, the character has more than enough ways to open someone up imo. Not to mention how rewarding his throw is, with how it effectively gives a guaranteed run up b1 midscreen on top of the 12%. I also think the character doesn't even need to open you up 100% of the time, seeing how many of his blockstrings into upkick shaolin drop do up to 7.13% chip and build half a bar while still remaining safe.

Personally I think that if this character could make you guess that much off of a 13 frame low with that much range it would be silly. With the 2 being an oh, the mixups would be: b12xx ex chakram, b1xx ex chakram, b12xx ex cartwheel and if there was any good fuzzy to deal with this something like b1xx ex cartwheel would still exist to mess with it. Also forgot to mention that the safe meterless option that does chip and builds bar (b12 xx upkick shoalin drop) would end up still being a mixup thanks to b12.

Yeah those points all make sense. I may just need to find ways to adjust my playstyle to be less predictable and have more success with F2 in particular, as well as ex cartwheel. F2 is an iffy tool when it comes to oki because it can be interrupted by so many different moves given the amount of startup that it has - I may just need to use it more after a j1 or j2 rather than as a starter by itself.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

23? are you referring to 24?

Yeah idk why I said 3. Shows I never use that booboo move

 

[Trustypatches]

Yeah those points all make sense. I may just need to find ways to adjust my playstyle to be less predictable and have more success with F2 in particular, as well as ex cartwheel. F2 is an iffy tool when it comes to oki because it can be interrupted by so many different moves given the amount of startup that it has - I may just need to use it more after a j1 or j2 rather than as a starter by itself.

There are more tools to use for opening people up other than his standard low/oh's anyway. + frames off late NJP is a good example that I've started using more recently. After his NJP at the latest point you can actually jail a d4, meaning it must be at least +9, though I'm sure someone has tested and knows if it's more. I often open people up for not respecting options after late njps. Personally I also like to throw a lot with Jin. s1 throw, throws off any kind of + frames and more. Just because of how run up b1 is near guaranteed after it. It will only be avoided by backdashes or armor.

Btw, be careful going for f2 off jump ins as it won't jail, leaving a gap that can be armored.

 

[TackyHaddock]

Yeah idk why I said 3. Shows I never use that booboo move

I agree that having 24 be a popup for meterless damage, the string is fairly useless as is

There are more tools to use for opening people up other than his standard low/oh's anyway. + frames off late NJP is a good example that I've started using more recently. After his NJP at the latest point you can actually jail a d4, meaning it must be at least +9 though I'm sure someone has tested and knows if it's more. I often open people up for not respecting options after late njps.

Btw, be careful going for f2 off jump ins as it won't jail, leaving a gap that can be armored.

that's interesting about the late NJP, I will have to look into it further. In general I have been trying to use NJP less, because I tend to overuse it in the neutral and other situations when certain characters can punish it hard (but this is just the standard NJP, not really focusing on executing it late).

I'm aware of the gap with F2 after a jump in, but it seems to me to at least be one of the less reactable ways to implement F2 (e.g., rather than just running in and starting oki with F2). I don't often see people armor immediately after a ji1 or ji2, so maybe that's why it could be viable despite that gap.

 

[Tweedy]

Does anyone else think that plus frames off of NJPs is wack? I mean you're trying to launch someone for no meter, so you're plus? Not to mention some characters have great NJPs. Not even taking a shot at Jin, I actually hate his NJP. When I use him it whiffs, and I rage.

 

[Trustypatches]

Does anyone else think that plus frames off of NJPs is wack? I mean you're trying to launch someone for no meter, so you're plus? Not to mention some characters have great NJPs. Not even taking a shot at Jin, I actually hate his NJP. When I use him it whiffs, and I rage.

I think it is pretty stupid with Jin honestly, despite how it whiffs with air to airs. It covers so much range, and once he is in the air it is kind of hard to do anything but block with the threat of him letting it go at any point. Then you will end up blocking a late njp and are -9 or potentially -11. Though some characters deal with it a bit better, like Reptile and Lao have armor that can deal with it as soon they see you jumping straight up.

Other characters have it similar, for example Raiden's njp can be really overwhelming in the corner sometimes. (not saying to nerf one of his only good tools in the neutral lol)

 

[Phosferrax]

J2 is fucking whack. What even is that hitbox?

 

[TackyHaddock]

J2 is fucking whack. What even is that hitbox?

don't they call it a disjointed hitbox or something like that? I think both J1 and J2 are solid moves and have their respective uses

 

[Trustypatches]

J2 is fucking whack. What even is that hitbox?

shhhhh don't talk about Jin's jump attacks, if no-one mentions them they will survive the next patch!

 

[Renzokuken]

shhhhh don't talk about Jin's jump attacks, if no-one mentions them they will survive the next patch!

Too late. DJT and REO are already asking for a nerf to Jin's j1 and j2. lol

 

[ID_Moi_LSac]

KJ doesn't need more OH attacks... F3 by itself is really good and so is F2.

If you need more than that to open people up, you can just delay your low after oki (Woundcowboy is really good at doing this with Shinnok) or just go for a classic : D1 - walk back - B12

 

[TackyHaddock]

Too late. DJT and REO are already asking for a nerf to Jin's j1 and j2. lol

Someone must silence those heathens

 

[Renzokuken]

Someone must silence those heathens

I blame Slayer.

 

[stamatis]

Too late. DJT and REO are already asking for a nerf to Jin's j1 and j2. lol

Reo plays Predator,and he wants kj to get nerfed in his air attacks?

 

[Kombat Chef]

I think shaolin is perfect the way it is right now I just hope he doesn't get any nerds by the time xl comes out. I played some shaolin mirrors with @Crawlingshadow and I definitely picked up some dirty shit. Might already be known but I never saw it until I played him

 

[stamatis]

Yeah idk why I said 3. Shows I never use that booboo move

you know it is our best anti-cross up right?

 

[zoofs]

you know it is our best anti-cross up right?

do you mean s2 in general or that full string

if the latter, no lol. S2 is a decent aa but d1/s1 also work completely fine on crossovers, d1 might even be better because it low profiles with a good hitbox

 

[stamatis]

Does anyone else think that plus frames off of NJPs is wack? I mean you're trying to launch someone for no meter, so you're plus? Not to mention some characters have great NJPs. Not even taking a shot at Jin, I actually hate his NJP. When I use him it whiffs, and I rage.

it depends on the char,Kj's NJP on it's way up is -16 on it's way down is +9.
Takeda's NJP on it's way up is safe,or maybe -8............fucker.

 

[Tweedy]

it depends on the char,Kj's NJP on it's way up is -16 on it's way down is +9.
Takeda's NJP on it's way up is safe,or maybe -8............fucker.

Good NJP's are incredibly hard to contest, so the fear of getting hit by a Quan, Raiden, or even a Kung Lao NJP, is going to stop you from contesting it before it becomes plus. For this reason, how minus they are on the way up is completely irrelevant imo.

 

[stamatis]

do you mean s2 in general or that full string

if the latter, no lol. S2 is a decent aa but d1/s1 also work completely fine on crossovers, d1 might even be better because it low profiles with a good hitbox

no,s2 is his best anti cross up.

 

[stamatis]

Good NJP's are incredibly hard to contest, so the fear of getting hit by a Quan, Raiden, or even a Kung Lao NJP, is going to stop you from contesting it before it becomes plus. For this reason, how minus they are on the way up is completely irrelevant imo.

i just mentioned the numbers,everything else is up to you.

 

[TackyHaddock]

do you mean s2 in general or that full string

if the latter, no lol. S2 is a decent aa but d1/s1 also work completely fine on crossovers, d1 might even be better because it low profiles with a good hitbox

have you been messing with shaolin?