MsMiharo
Kuff Bano
As you may or may not know I've dedicated quite some time exploring Commando Kano's different whiff issues. bugs and general strategies. I am by no means a top player but consider me a lab rat who's spent way too much time these few months with a cold and MKX at my hands.
In order to be a complete character, ie a FUNCTIONING character, Commando Kano needs these fixes desperately IMO. I'm not going to say he's unviable, I'm not going to downplay or upplay him. I'm going to state what I consider bugs and/or very poor design that severely hinders him. This is a list of Commando specific things. Cybernetic has no glaring issues and Cutthroat... Well let's hope NRS doesn't "fix" him anymore.
Choke
What's wrong with it?
Choke is a great move. In fact it's the basis of my style of Commando. It's got great meter build (b13 choke is ~1/4 of a bar, safe on block, has no holes and leads into a mixup of sorts where you can parry, EX grab, etc) and works as an anti-air. HOWEVER it does have some severe issues.
It is listed as a high but it won't hit 100% on crouch blockers:
I made a salty video on the issue here:
Basically it can be crouch blocked (not neutral crouched. Well it can be as well but that is expected). What this means is that it can't be thrown out in neutral willy nilly. But wait why would you do that? Well choke jails from d1, making d1 tick throws into a semi-mixup because you can try to jump d1 command grab but you can't jump d1 choke. This doesn't work on all characters however since they can pretty much just low block. Furthermore throwing out EX choke is decent as an armored reversal but again this can be crouch blocked.
It whiffs after F33 (and b3):
I am not the biggest fan of the F33 string. But the fact is that it's the only tick string we have to work with so it could be used a lot more if choke would connect on hit. Let me explain. F33 is a mid-low string. If your opponent decides to take the second hit (the low) they can FULL COMBO PUNISH your tick throw. They can also jump after the second hit and full combo punish (Also they can backdash, but more on that in a bit). Doing F33 choke would make them have to guess. If they eat the second hit or try to jump they'll get choked. If they don't they'll get thrown. This could be especially deadly in the corner where backdash is less of an option. Sure they escape both choke and grab but if your opponents starts backdashing in the corner you can just do F33 and full combo punish on a read. The same whiff issue occurs with a b3 from afar, but this is no issue as b31 jails.
It randomly whiffs after f4:
Ok there's two things going on here. First of all Choke whiffs A LOT of times after a F4. One could argue that this is design due to F4 being a lunging attack. With that I can agree, to a certain extent. The problem is F4 is Commando's longest reaching normal, meaning that in some match up's you're going to use it a lot to get in. Mixing it up with Choke is a good way to catch your opponent of guard, since they're both safe. However Choke will whiff unless you did your F4 pretty close to the opponent. You're safe even on whiff but you lose damage and you're now minus. This is especially gruesome considering F4 is great for catching jumps but then Choke whiffs even more.
This issue if perhaps a luxury thing but it has a huge effect on Commando's pressure game. He's already the variation with the worst reach and least damage so losing out on what should be hitting (for 11% damage, mind you, this is not huge damage, doesn't grant a combo, etc) is annoying. This is further complicated by the fact that this bug exists:
Basically it doesn't jail properly. It literally jails 50% of the time vs. Cassie (plus others) which she can OS out of. If you just drop block for a split second, mash a poke and block again you will get out of Choke. She can even EX flipkick you on a read.
Suggested fix:
Make Choke have a slightly increased downward hitbox and slightly increased forward hitbox. That would make it connect more frequently after f4 (even if it hits them out of the air) without necessarily making it connect 100% of the time, so you still have to think of your spacing. Furthermore it should make it hit crouch blocking opponents and those that have just been hit with a low. I'm hesitant to say this though because Choke already has an awesome hitbox, but IMO it needs slightly more.
Luxury buff:
Make Choke more + on hit. Being -5 (according to in game data, actually you're slightly plus b but not enough for any decent oki) after your main (or one of your main) pressure tools is really not that great. Even in the corner it's hard to get a decent oki game after it's hit. If Choke were to be slightly plus we could start some offense after landing it or go for armor break in the corner. Even EX Choke makes oki impossible as it knocks them too far away.
Knife and EX Knives
What's wrong with it?
It whiffs so much it hurts
In theory both Knife and EX Knives are great tools for pressure. Knife is pretty much safe (-7), has good plus frames on hit (+7), EX Knives are +9 on block and +19 on hit. This could be used sort of like Tempest Lao's hat where you can keep the pressure up and force armor or make them eat a grab, etc. But it doesn't work like that.
Here's an 11 minute video of how badly it whiffs versus the whole cast after doing 32 or b13:
and here's the thread I made on it if you want to read all about it: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ex-knife-frame-trap.56001/
Now you might think "wait a second MsMiharo why'd you pick those two strings??? Why not something else???". First of all b13 and 32 are Commando's best strings (even before buff to 32). They're both mid, start up in 9 frames. 32 is -1 and leads to full combo on hit, you can stagger b13 if you want to, etc. S3 has shit range and B1 can be low profiled but overall they're great strings.
Also they actually hit when they should. Jailing from 112 or S2 would be nice but they don't hit all crouch blocking opponents. Hell sometimes even the second 1 in 112 (which is a mid) whiffs on crouch blockers. Furthermore 112 has a gap (for whatever reason).
THE ONLY 100% CONSISTENT THING COMMANDO CAN DO TO JAIL INTO KNIVES MIDSCREEN AND CORNER IS S4. And that's a 15 frame high. So, no that's not going to happen. Every other string or normal will whiff in some situations vs some characters. Especially in the corner. Either the first knife whiffs or the second on both. Either way you lose a bar, you lose your pressure and if you're unlucky, you get full combo punished.
This problem is a problem for Cutthroat as well but at least he can jail from b12 and b121.
Suggested fix:
Just make the high hit crouch blockers and the mid hit mid. Also do something about the corner where it seems like the hitbox on the knife starts too far on Kano's hand to make it hit.
Luxury buff:
None. Knives are a super solid tool when they work.
Command grabs
What's wrong with it?
It whiffs on everything
I don't know if I'm asking too much but I don't like throw immunity. At all. Command grabs are relatively low damage (16-17%, 19-20% if EX'd) compared to the risk of throwing them out there (full combo punish into 30-40%). But fine I'll accept that for instance moves that put the opponent in an airborne state can be throw immune. Throw in some (ok let's be serious A LOT OF) specials that can be throw immune as well. But check out this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/making-ex-command-grabs-whiff.56378/ Why on earth can such a huge part of the cast just profile your EX Command grab? And even worse, why can so many just use their sweep to not only deal a chunky 7% but make you waste a bar? Like come on, look at this:
There's so many matches I've lost due to EX command grabs whiffing on normals for whatever reason. Meter is precious for Commando so wasting a bar and getting full combo'd is not fun at all.
Suggested fix
Make them have more priority and hit low profiling moves. Command grabs require good reads and we should be awarded for it, not punished. Bear in mind that Commando has shit tick throw setups so it's not like we're just facerolling our controller and command grabbing everyone all the time.
Luxury buff
None. If you want to be generous you could up the damage on EX command grab by 1-2%.
TL;DR Commando whiffs stuff. Fix please.
Btw I know people think 32 1+3 EX should scale less. And I wouldn't mind it but IMO Commando is about solid reads and not about big combo damage. Now you could look at Sun God Kotal or Wrestler Jax or Ferra/Torr and say that grapplers have big combo damage in this game but let's not go there. The 1+3 part could be -6 or so though, to discourage opponents from pressing buttons after 32.
*insert youtube-voice* Am I whining? Did I miss anything? Let me know in the comments and be sure to hate me in the comments and please like and subscribe it helps out a lot.
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In order to be a complete character, ie a FUNCTIONING character, Commando Kano needs these fixes desperately IMO. I'm not going to say he's unviable, I'm not going to downplay or upplay him. I'm going to state what I consider bugs and/or very poor design that severely hinders him. This is a list of Commando specific things. Cybernetic has no glaring issues and Cutthroat... Well let's hope NRS doesn't "fix" him anymore.
Choke
What's wrong with it?
Choke is a great move. In fact it's the basis of my style of Commando. It's got great meter build (b13 choke is ~1/4 of a bar, safe on block, has no holes and leads into a mixup of sorts where you can parry, EX grab, etc) and works as an anti-air. HOWEVER it does have some severe issues.
It is listed as a high but it won't hit 100% on crouch blockers:
I made a salty video on the issue here:
Basically it can be crouch blocked (not neutral crouched. Well it can be as well but that is expected). What this means is that it can't be thrown out in neutral willy nilly. But wait why would you do that? Well choke jails from d1, making d1 tick throws into a semi-mixup because you can try to jump d1 command grab but you can't jump d1 choke. This doesn't work on all characters however since they can pretty much just low block. Furthermore throwing out EX choke is decent as an armored reversal but again this can be crouch blocked.
It whiffs after F33 (and b3):
I am not the biggest fan of the F33 string. But the fact is that it's the only tick string we have to work with so it could be used a lot more if choke would connect on hit. Let me explain. F33 is a mid-low string. If your opponent decides to take the second hit (the low) they can FULL COMBO PUNISH your tick throw. They can also jump after the second hit and full combo punish (Also they can backdash, but more on that in a bit). Doing F33 choke would make them have to guess. If they eat the second hit or try to jump they'll get choked. If they don't they'll get thrown. This could be especially deadly in the corner where backdash is less of an option. Sure they escape both choke and grab but if your opponents starts backdashing in the corner you can just do F33 and full combo punish on a read. The same whiff issue occurs with a b3 from afar, but this is no issue as b31 jails.
It randomly whiffs after f4:
Ok there's two things going on here. First of all Choke whiffs A LOT of times after a F4. One could argue that this is design due to F4 being a lunging attack. With that I can agree, to a certain extent. The problem is F4 is Commando's longest reaching normal, meaning that in some match up's you're going to use it a lot to get in. Mixing it up with Choke is a good way to catch your opponent of guard, since they're both safe. However Choke will whiff unless you did your F4 pretty close to the opponent. You're safe even on whiff but you lose damage and you're now minus. This is especially gruesome considering F4 is great for catching jumps but then Choke whiffs even more.
This issue if perhaps a luxury thing but it has a huge effect on Commando's pressure game. He's already the variation with the worst reach and least damage so losing out on what should be hitting (for 11% damage, mind you, this is not huge damage, doesn't grant a combo, etc) is annoying. This is further complicated by the fact that this bug exists:
Basically it doesn't jail properly. It literally jails 50% of the time vs. Cassie (plus others) which she can OS out of. If you just drop block for a split second, mash a poke and block again you will get out of Choke. She can even EX flipkick you on a read.
Suggested fix:
Make Choke have a slightly increased downward hitbox and slightly increased forward hitbox. That would make it connect more frequently after f4 (even if it hits them out of the air) without necessarily making it connect 100% of the time, so you still have to think of your spacing. Furthermore it should make it hit crouch blocking opponents and those that have just been hit with a low. I'm hesitant to say this though because Choke already has an awesome hitbox, but IMO it needs slightly more.
Luxury buff:
Make Choke more + on hit. Being -5 (according to in game data, actually you're slightly plus b but not enough for any decent oki) after your main (or one of your main) pressure tools is really not that great. Even in the corner it's hard to get a decent oki game after it's hit. If Choke were to be slightly plus we could start some offense after landing it or go for armor break in the corner. Even EX Choke makes oki impossible as it knocks them too far away.
Knife and EX Knives
What's wrong with it?
It whiffs so much it hurts
In theory both Knife and EX Knives are great tools for pressure. Knife is pretty much safe (-7), has good plus frames on hit (+7), EX Knives are +9 on block and +19 on hit. This could be used sort of like Tempest Lao's hat where you can keep the pressure up and force armor or make them eat a grab, etc. But it doesn't work like that.
Here's an 11 minute video of how badly it whiffs versus the whole cast after doing 32 or b13:
and here's the thread I made on it if you want to read all about it: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ex-knife-frame-trap.56001/
Now you might think "wait a second MsMiharo why'd you pick those two strings??? Why not something else???". First of all b13 and 32 are Commando's best strings (even before buff to 32). They're both mid, start up in 9 frames. 32 is -1 and leads to full combo on hit, you can stagger b13 if you want to, etc. S3 has shit range and B1 can be low profiled but overall they're great strings.
Also they actually hit when they should. Jailing from 112 or S2 would be nice but they don't hit all crouch blocking opponents. Hell sometimes even the second 1 in 112 (which is a mid) whiffs on crouch blockers. Furthermore 112 has a gap (for whatever reason).
THE ONLY 100% CONSISTENT THING COMMANDO CAN DO TO JAIL INTO KNIVES MIDSCREEN AND CORNER IS S4. And that's a 15 frame high. So, no that's not going to happen. Every other string or normal will whiff in some situations vs some characters. Especially in the corner. Either the first knife whiffs or the second on both. Either way you lose a bar, you lose your pressure and if you're unlucky, you get full combo punished.
This problem is a problem for Cutthroat as well but at least he can jail from b12 and b121.
Suggested fix:
Just make the high hit crouch blockers and the mid hit mid. Also do something about the corner where it seems like the hitbox on the knife starts too far on Kano's hand to make it hit.
Luxury buff:
None. Knives are a super solid tool when they work.
Command grabs
What's wrong with it?
It whiffs on everything
I don't know if I'm asking too much but I don't like throw immunity. At all. Command grabs are relatively low damage (16-17%, 19-20% if EX'd) compared to the risk of throwing them out there (full combo punish into 30-40%). But fine I'll accept that for instance moves that put the opponent in an airborne state can be throw immune. Throw in some (ok let's be serious A LOT OF) specials that can be throw immune as well. But check out this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/making-ex-command-grabs-whiff.56378/ Why on earth can such a huge part of the cast just profile your EX Command grab? And even worse, why can so many just use their sweep to not only deal a chunky 7% but make you waste a bar? Like come on, look at this:
There's so many matches I've lost due to EX command grabs whiffing on normals for whatever reason. Meter is precious for Commando so wasting a bar and getting full combo'd is not fun at all.
Suggested fix
Make them have more priority and hit low profiling moves. Command grabs require good reads and we should be awarded for it, not punished. Bear in mind that Commando has shit tick throw setups so it's not like we're just facerolling our controller and command grabbing everyone all the time.
Luxury buff
None. If you want to be generous you could up the damage on EX command grab by 1-2%.
TL;DR Commando whiffs stuff. Fix please.
Btw I know people think 32 1+3 EX should scale less. And I wouldn't mind it but IMO Commando is about solid reads and not about big combo damage. Now you could look at Sun God Kotal or Wrestler Jax or Ferra/Torr and say that grapplers have big combo damage in this game but let's not go there. The 1+3 part could be -6 or so though, to discourage opponents from pressing buttons after 32.
*insert youtube-voice* Am I whining? Did I miss anything? Let me know in the comments and be sure to hate me in the comments and please like and subscribe it helps out a lot.
@ando1184
@bdizzle2700
@countrypistol
@Derptile
@FlappyDaniel
@MrInsaynne
@SaltShaker
@The Hex Man
@Youphemism
@ETC AdmiralAugustus
@Phosferrax
@FireBreather
@kabelfritz
Last edited:
I didn't say people aren't using 32 outside of punishes, I'm saying when going for a combo ex ball cancel combos do more damage and it makes going for 321+3MB combos not worth it.