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Question - Fisticuffs What changes would you do to Fisticuffs?

smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
ismael4790 said:
I don't see any nonsense in a buff like triple chip for fistbump, for example.
Would be a problem if it was combined with old speedbag. But nobody said all suggestions in the thread should be applied together xD

Smokey, I know there are problems in the backbone of this game, like jumpins and njps being too powerful, and antiairs being really bad. But sadly I doubt these things can change, so we give ideas about things that can actually change.
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Triple is too much. All of the buffs you have posted are crazy to even suggest in my opinion. Even at its current frame data b121 string can be made + for a bar with EX forceballs, so you can rail off like 10-15% chip damage or get a good opportunity to throw or go for other pressure or 11/f2 stuff. You can get the chip buff up safely with b2~fist bumb combo ender, and you can still break some characters wake up armour in that situation or start throwing out chippy forceballs from fullscreen. Your first post is asking for cage to have new strings with low starters and permanent chip buff and less pushback on speedbag, you dont see the nonsense? Why do you think it was nerfed, because NRS dont like DJT?
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
@smokey I understand that you are against any kind of buff for Cage except for hitbox fixes, but don't you see that even with triple chip after fist bump EX or the old speedbag he would still be miles away from the top tiers? Just an example:

Tempest vs fisticuff:

Best ji2 in the game --------- Shitty ji2
Best anti air in the game --------- bad anti air
Best punish in the game --------- Best punish is a super short 9 frames
One of the best wake ups ----------- Good wake up
Best meter building ----------- Average meter building
Best pressure ------------- Average pressure
Big damage ---------- Average damage
Extremely good anti wake up ---------- No anti wake up, b12121 only beats the slowest ones
Very good jump and mobility (a teleport and a divekick too) ---------- Floatiest jump in the game, tied with Kung Jin. Good run but bad mobility overall


Like I said before...there is just no comparison. No one picks Fisticuff in tournament for a reason...there are other pressure characters who are miles away from him.
Without buff he will never place high in tournament, he has enormous issues. No one plays him at all, it is as useful as Spectral Ermac or Ruthless Ferra Torr.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
smokey said:
Triple is too much. All of the buffs you have posted are crazy to even suggest in my opinion. Even at its current frame data b121 string can be made + for a bar with EX forceballs, so you can rail off like 10-15% chip damage or get a good opportunity to throw or go for other pressure or 11/f2 stuff. You can get the chip buff up safely with b2~fist bumb combo ender, and you can still break some characters wake up armour in that situation or start throwing out chippy forceballs from fullscreen. Your first post is asking for cage to have new strings with low starters and permanent chip buff and less pushback on speedbag, you dont see the nonsense? Why do you think it was nerfed, because NRS dont like DJT?
Click to expand...
As i said before, all my suggestions obviously shouldn't be applied together, that would create a monster.
They were sorted from more to less possible, and some of them don't ask much.
I don't expect him to get a low starter, but hey, call me a dreamer just for asking the B1 have the 10 frame startup nrs actually said in the patch and not the 11 it really was...

And by the way, I also play the three variations, but right now Fisticuffs in almost every situation feels like going to a gunfire with a nunchaku. Yes, if you use it good you will hit someone, but eventually you are going to get killed.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Asodimazze said:
@smokey I understand that you are against any kind of buff for Cage except for hitbox fixes, but don't you see that even with triple chip after fist bump EX or the old speedbag he would still be miles away from the top tiers? Just an example:

Tempest vs fisticuff:

Best ji2 in the game --------- Shitty ji2
Best anti air in the game --------- bad anti air
Best punish in the game --------- Best punish is a super short 9 frames
One of the best wake ups ----------- Good wake up
Best meter building ----------- Average meter building
Best pressure ------------- Average pressure
Big damage ---------- Average damage
Extremely good anti wake up ---------- No anti wake up, b12121 only beats the slowest ones
Very good jump and mobility (a teleport and a divekick too) ---------- Floatiest jump in the game, tied with Kung Jin. Good run but bad mobility overall


Like I said before...there is just no comparison. No one picks Fisticuff in tournament for a reason...there are other pressure characters who are miles away from him.
Without buff he will never place high in tournament, he has enormous issues. No one plays him at all, it is as useful as Spectral Ermac or Ruthless Ferra Torr.
Click to expand...
Im not above any sort of buff for cage, i'll take what im given but im not gonna lose sleep over the fisticuffs nerfs. Im also not going to plague the forums with a bunch of crybaby overpowered suggestions because if you are in it to win tournaments then quite honestly move on and play a different character, or grin and bear it in the hopes that you level up enough to get past tough matchups. This is what actual players will do, they will go and practice and lab out the different characters and find something that works. Every game has top and bottom tiers, but its only MKX where everyone is secretly on the NRS balance team but doesnt even play the game because they are too busy crying on the forums about it.

This variation lost a few frames on one string and now its dead and buried because the only thing anyone knew how to do with it was spam a dirty string with broken frame data. When was the last time anyone shared something useful with Johnny Cage? Move on and we might actually level up as a community.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
ismael4790 said:
As i said before, all my suggestions obviously shouldn't be applied together, that would create a monster.
They were sorted from more to less possible, and some of them don't ask much.
I don't expect him to get a low starter, but hey, call me a dreamer just for asking the B1 have the 10 frame startup nrs actually said in the patch and not the 11 it really was...

And by the way, I also play the three variations, but right now Fisticuffs in almost every situation feels like going to a gunfire with a nunchaku. Yes, if you use it good you will hit someone, but eventually you are going to get killed.
Click to expand...
This is your thread asking for the buffs man, "what buffs would you give to fisticuffs" and your first post is just a list of buffs that he doesnt need or would completely make him broken. I understand kitana and kenshi got buffs because they cried like little whiny bitches, but at least be realistic about your suggestions man.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
smokey said:
This is your thread asking for the buffs man, "what buffs would you give to fisticuffs" and your first post is just a list of buffs that he doesnt need or would completely make him broken. I understand kitana and kenshi got buffs because they cried like little whiny bitches, but at least be realistic about your suggestions man.
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Well, pay more attention when you read, you even quoted the title in a wrong way. I asked people their ideas for changes, not buffs. If you want to suggest nerfs for Fisticuffs we will hear you :)

I recommend you read again the first post, and if you still think that a 10 frame startup B1 or an improved fistbump (the first two ideas) are not needed or would make him broken, then there's no more to say. The other ideas are lower in the list and as I said are less possible or desired.

And by the way, another idea for Cage, for all variations: Ex shadow kick hitting mid.
For those of you who answered, i liked many of your ideas, keep them coming!
 
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P

P.F.

Noob
smokey said:
Im not above any sort of buff for cage, i'll take what im given but im not gonna lose sleep over the fisticuffs nerfs. Im also not going to plague the forums with a bunch of crybaby overpowered suggestions because if you are in it to win tournaments then quite honestly move on and play a different character, or grin and bear it in the hopes that you level up enough to get past tough matchups. This is what actual players will do, they will go and practice and lab out the different characters and find something that works. Every game has top and bottom tiers, but its only MKX where everyone is secretly on the NRS balance team but doesnt even play the game because they are too busy crying on the forums about it.

This variation lost a few frames on one string and now its dead and buried because the only thing anyone knew how to do with it was spam a dirty string with broken frame data. When was the last time anyone shared something useful with Johnny Cage? Move on and we might actually level up as a community.
Click to expand...
I think the mentality is if NRS is going to be handing out random buffs to the top tier (and some mid tier) characters JC might as well get a piece of the action.

Personally I am a Stunt Double main but I'd like to see something that makes Fisticuffs unique and useful in some way, as I feel FF Kang has more or less invalidated it. Does it have to be a slew of buffs? No, but some decent/unique tools would be nice.

Other than that, the broken hit boxes are something that severely hurts JC and NEEDS to be fixed, I won't stay silent on that.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Hawfy said:
I got a reply from tyler lansdown saying he feels FistyCups works fine & is still hype he aslo didnt answer if his mids where getting fixed :(
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WTF...Works fine and still hype??? Where's the hype? Anybody uses him now xD

I will be extremely disappointed if they let this variation stay as shit tier...
 
Hawfy

Hawfy

"Martini Shot"
ismael4790 said:
WTF...Works fine and still hype??? Where's the hype? Anybody uses him now xD

I will be extremely disappointed if they let this variation stay as shit tier...
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He honestly crushed all of my dreams after his tweet especially when he skipped my first question about the mids.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Fisticuffs needs something new if speedbag stays as it is now. He has no true pressure, since speedbag can be poked extremely easy if staggered, not a great reaction required from the opponent.

I really hope Tyler and 16 bit are trolling since a great part of mk community knows FC Cage is now low tier and too close to variationless Johnny.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I just don't understand why some mid tier characters like cybernetic kano get buffs (like the antiair laser probably leading to combo now) and FC Johnny (which is obviosuly low tier and almost anyone pick him in tournaments) gets ignored now.

I don't see the criteria NRS follows in their patches. Just hard to understand.
 
ienjoywinning

ienjoywinning

Warrior
Seriously tho i hope they give this variation something that gives him a reason to use over the other 2 , punshing people all day sounds really fun :DOGE
 
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