Question - Fisticuffs What changes would you do to Fisticuffs?

[Cossner]

A-list is good and has lots of mix ups, I agree with that. Stunt double loses pressure but gains huge damage.
I consider those two variations (apart from the hitbox issues that specially hurt those two variations, and that I hope today are fixed) pretty good.

But FC (I'm focusing on it) loses all of this and gains what? A chip buff which is extremely unsafe to activate and very few rewarding? Because speedbag is not a threat anymore in terms of pressure, the opponent can just poke out very easily, even with bad reactions. That insane chip you talk about needs fistbump activated and the options to use it were reduced with the speedbag nerf.

His mix up game is not so great compared to others, if you block him high you are never eating great damage. If the opponent knows the matchup is very easy to fuzzy-guard the 11 f2 / 113 mix up, which is one of his main tools. Furthermore, and this is crucial, there's no way in this variation to make safe the string 113 without using meter, which reduces more your options to mix up safely. And if you use the metered forceballs to be safe after 113, you are just pushed out of range and the pressure is over, the plus frames you get just allow you to try f3 or f34, which is not a fantastic option...This situation only favors A-List that has a cancel to continue pressure.
D4 is ridiculous, I'm ok with that, but that's not variation specific.

Which are those normals that anti-air so consistently? Because 1 and F4 lose against jumpins too often to be reliable. And his flip kick antiairs but does very poor damage and has almost vertical hitbox, like his uppercut...

He doesnt lose any of that in FC what are you talking about. His mix up game is great. So according to you is bad because 113 is unsafe unless he uses meter"? What about the rest of us with unsafe 50/50s with or without meter? You have plenty more options than "just f3" which makes me think you're extremely flowcharty. And yeah, I get 130% antiaired and anti crossed up every single time by JC. It's unbelievable that you haven't even figured it out.

Just saying: If your goal here is to improve the site, or to reduce the clutter of perceived foolishness, it would help if you didn't add to the fires by way of a caustic attitude. I highly doubt that fools will listen to those who say things to them with an antagonistic or venomous approach. Whether or not those you patronize are indeed dum-dums, their indignation over your apparent unfriendly attitude – and your continued antagonism in your replies – has lead to a circle of bitterness and spite. That's not helping anyone.

So... Please, Cossner, consider a little change in your approach? Although you may be quite tired of foolish antics from certain TYM-goers, a change in attitude can make a huge difference!

(Also: This attitude thing applies to everyone, but change starts with the self.)

And it all started because I said "maybe the character is fine and you're just bad". Sadly, that's the case 99% of the time, and no one has the balls to tell these people. I honestly don't care, I'm done with this crap. Kthxbye

 

[Asodimazze]

All this chat is pretty pointless, the reality is just that Fisticuff sucks.
Let's see what the patch brings

 

[rafaw]

He doesnt lose any of that in FC what are you talking about. His mix up game is great. So according to you is bad because 113 is unsafe unless he uses meter"? What about the rest of us with unsafe 50/50s with or without meter? You have plenty more options than "just f3" which makes me think you're extremely flowcharty. And yeah, I get 130% antiaired and anti crossed up every single time by JC. It's unbelievable that you haven't even figured it out.

And it all started because I said "maybe the character is fine and you're just bad". Sadly, that's the case 99% of the time, and no one has the balls to tell these people. I honestly don't care, I'm done with this crap. Kthxbye

AA by normal?

 

[Cossner]

All this chat is pretty pointless, the reality is just that Fisticuff sucks.
Let's see what the patch brings

I really hope they increase the hitbox of d4 so "normals whiffing" won't happen to everyone against JC.

 

[thlityoursloat]

He doesnt lose any of that in FC what are you talking about. His mix up game is great. So according to you is bad because 113 is unsafe unless he uses meter"? What about the rest of us with unsafe 50/50s with or without meter? You have plenty more options than "just f3" which makes me think you're extremely flowcharty. And yeah, I get 130% antiaired and anti crossed up every single time by JC. It's unbelievable that you haven't even figured it out.

And it all started because I said "maybe the character is fine and you're just bad". Sadly, that's the case 99% of the time, and no one has the balls to tell these people. I honestly don't care, I'm done with this crap. Kthxbye

You have balls for telling people in an online forum that they suck at a game? dam dawg you have dem bawlls

 

[Cossner]

You have balls for telling people in an online forum that they suck at a game? dam dawg you have dem bawlls

 

[coconutshrimp]

Fisticuffs imo lacks the tools he needs to pressure. SD has the mimics, A-List has his cancels, and Fisticuffs has b1212 which can be armored through by the third hit. His Fist bump should give him the same increase chip and should get an EX verison that frame traps or gives increased damage in general. Pushback on b1212 should be reduced slightly and maybe give him his own unique ender like a command grab or something that involves those brass knuckles. Props to you for sticking with Fisticuffs. I use SD and after messing around with fisticuffs for a bit, it is definitely more limited with the pressure tools and much more limited in general without the mimics or cancels that sd and a-list have. He's practically variationless in fisticuffs.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Because I'm honestly the only person who truly still plays fisticuffs all the time, here is my buff wishlist.


B1 reduced to 7/8 frames (keeping the entire string -3 still)
B1,B12,B121, to have less pushback. (keeping entire string -3 still)
Shadow Kick to be similar speeds to Mournful Kitana's Shadow Kick (not on block, only startup frames)
ExForceBalls to hit correctly and not be interrupt-able/duckable upclose.
Fist Bump to work similarly to Liu Kang's flame fist activation (Safe way to activate in combos/on block for meter)

 

[Asodimazze]

Because I'm honestly the only person who truly still plays fisticuffs all the time, here is my buff wishlist.


B1 reduced to 7/8 frames (keeping the entire string -3 still)
B1,B12,B121, to have less pushback. (keeping entire string -3 still)
Shadow Kick to be similar speeds to Mournful Kitana's Shadow Kick (not on block, only startup frames)
ExForceBalls to hit correctly and not be interrupt-able/duckable upclose.
Fist Bump to work similarly to Liu Kang's flame fist activation (Safe way to activate in combos/on block for meter)

I like the list, but it's funny how your wishes changed in a few months....

Make fistbump activate faster, so he could for example enable it after a nut punch. That's it.

Besides the obvious fixing of the normals.

 

[ismael4790]

Because I'm honestly the only person who truly still plays fisticuffs all the time, here is my buff wishlist.


B1 reduced to 7/8 frames (keeping the entire string -3 still)
B1,B12,B121, to have less pushback. (keeping entire string -3 still)
Shadow Kick to be similar speeds to Mournful Kitana's Shadow Kick (not on block, only startup frames)
ExForceBalls to hit correctly and not be interrupt-able/duckable upclose.
Fist Bump to work similarly to Liu Kang's flame fist activation (Safe way to activate in combos/on block for meter)

You are not alone, Mike. Fisticuffs loyalist here, no matter what happens

I like your wish list, adding that stuff to FC would make him a force to be reckoned with. Especially the first one and the last one you mention are crucial.
Another additional ideas:

-Speedbag gap moved from the second hit to the third one.
-Different frames on block for even and odd hits of the speedbag. Not 0/-3 as prepatch, but -1/-3 or -2/-3 would be good, so things change a bit depending on where you stagger.

I like the list, but it's funny how your wishes changed in a few months....

Well, it's natural he changes...almost the whole cast has been buffed, and FC Cage has been untouched since the famous nerf. He needs a bit more now to catch up the others.

 

[IrishMantis]

I'm thinking leave everything the way it is.

But give him an Ex Fistpump.
It starts up faster
Last longer
Does more chip
although as vague as those suggestions are can all differ depending on balance
But the cool buff I would like to see from ex Fistpunp would be the ability to cancel into B1 like how SD can cancel mimic load up into MSK or MRS
So he be able to use a bar off F3 to grant a combo or blockstring,

What do you guys think off that?

 

[M.D.]

I'm getting armored mid speedbag on block constantly by kitana ex fans and armored stuff, which is retarded.
Make the speedbag string gapless until you end it.

 

[ismael4790]

I'm thinking leave everything the way it is.

But give him an Ex Fistpump.
It starts up faster
Last longer
Does more chip
although as vague as those suggestions are can all differ depending on balance
But the cool buff I would like to see from ex Fistpunp would be the ability to cancel into B1 like how SD can cancel mimic load up into MSK or MRS
So he be able to use a bar off F3 to grant a combo or blockstring,

What do you guys think off that?

The EX Fistbump would be THE buff. The other ones would help him too, but if I had to choose only one change for FC, that would be the EX Fistbump, Liu style. Would add lots of possibilities to his gameplan.

 

[DrFolmer]

That armor option on the third hit is just lame shit. Some strings should definitely have gaps. Sure, you can just block after two hits and bait out a meter spin from Kung Lao and punish him, but it just feels stupid having to fear extending the speeebag when you finally get in.

fisticuffs should feel like a reward when you get in, even more so than his other variations. Yet A-list is plus on block for days and Stunt Double has blockstrings for days while also being excellent in the neutral - fisticuffs dont get to do fancy special moves to make f3 plus on block. His shitty air normals make it even harder to get in. Sure he has forceballs but still..

I dont know, maybe I'm downplaying - he just looks garbage on paper.

 

[thlityoursloat]

That armor option on the third hit is just lame shit. Some strings should definitely have gaps. Sure, you can just block after two hits and bait out a meter spin from Kung Lao and punish him, but it just feels stupid having to fear extending the speeebag when you finally get in.

fisticuffs should feel like a reward when you get in, even more so than his other variations. Yet A-list is plus on block for days and Stunt Double has blockstrings for days while also being excellent in the neutral - fisticuffs dont get to do fancy special moves to make f3 plus on block. His shitty air normals make it even harder to get in. Sure he has forceballs but still..

I dont know, maybe I'm downplaying - he just looks garbage on paper.

He's even garbage-r in practice.

 

[Wigy]

The long and short of it is.

He was nerfed because quan had no way out his pressure.

Quan now has a 6f poke.

Rollback those nerfs now

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Fist bump should have cancel frames (similar to liu kang in flame fist). I don't play that variation of johnny but just throwing that out there.

 

[DrFolmer]

Dat 6 frame poke man...

Still I think he should have his stuff back regardless of his 6 frame poke. Quan players cry when they get pressured to death but say it's balanced to be forced fullscreen and zoned to death. Seriously, why is it too much for Quan to switch variations to deal with pressure when a dude like Kotal Kahn gets buttfucked by Summoner (at least in Sun God and Blood God). All it takes is a switch to Warlock, who also has REALLY GOOD zoning on top of some scary wake up options. And seriously, every time you look at Quans meter it's like he always got 2 bars.. It's not like he's completely out of options.

Why is Quan the only one who doesn't have to switch variations in a bad matchup? I just think that's lame shit. We've all seen how one sided a Summoner matchup can be. It's just sad Fisticuffs gets to fade into obscurity like this because of a stupid matchup.

 

[ienjoywinning]

The long and short of it is.

He was nerfed because quan had no way out his pressure.

Quan now has a 6f poke.

Rollback those nerfs now

Nah , buff quan again

 

[ienjoywinning]

Dat 6 frame poke man...

Still I think he should have his stuff back regardless of his 6 frame poke. Quan players cry when they get pressured to death but say it's balanced to be forced fullscreen and zoned to death. Seriously, why is it too much for Quan to switch variations to deal with pressure when a dude like Kotal Kahn gets buttfucked by Summoner (at least in Sun God and Blood God). All it takes is a switch to Warlock, who also has REALLY GOOD zoning on top of some scary wake up options. And seriously, every time you look at Quans meter it's like he always got 2 bars.. It's not like he's completely out of options.

Why is Quan the only one who doesn't have to switch variations in a bad matchup? I just think that's lame shit. We've all seen how one sided a Summoner matchup can be. It's just sad Fisticuffs gets to fade into obscurity like this because of a stupid matchup.

6f d1 still dosen't make up for him being pressured by death on knockdown

 

[Lokheit]

I think Fisticuffs should've gotten the Deceptive and Unbreakable treatment and make the fist bump fast enough to let you extend combos. You wouldn't have as many options as A-List run cancels, but you would get the opportunity to speedbag after any non launching starter with the added chip from the bump you just activated.

Maybe even get an enhanced nutpunch while the bump buff is active and then lose the buff (so you can use it again in a different string) similar to how Unbreakable loses the aura when he uses the frost bomb. I think this kind of playstyle would make more sense on a a pressure variation like Fisticuffs instead of a defensive one like Unbreakable (who in my opinion should have gotten different kind of buffs).

 

[DrFolmer]

6f d1 still dosen't make up for him being pressured by death on knockdown

Quan has other variations man, that's the point. When Kung Lao gets in, when Tanya gets in, when War God gets in, when SD and A-List gets in, when Jax gets in it's game over in the corner. Should we take away their pressure game too?

Still, despite how stupid Quan looks when he gets that offense going it is sad to see him just get stuck in the corner and get chipped to death.

At least if they made block breakers even a tad worth it this whole matchup would have been solved easily.

 

[EMPR_MURK]

Dat 6 frame poke man...

Still I think he should have his stuff back regardless of his 6 frame poke. Quan players cry when they get pressured to death but say it's balanced to be forced fullscreen and zoned to death. Seriously, why is it too much for Quan to switch variations to deal with pressure when a dude like Kotal Kahn gets buttfucked by Summoner (at least in Sun God and Blood God). All it takes is a switch to Warlock, who also has REALLY GOOD zoning on top of some scary wake up options. And seriously, every time you look at Quans meter it's like he always got 2 bars.. It's not like he's completely out of options.

Why is Quan the only one who doesn't have to switch variations in a bad matchup? I just think that's lame shit. We've all seen how one sided a Summoner matchup can be. It's just sad Fisticuffs gets to fade into obscurity like this because of a stupid matchup.

If johnny gets a 6f d1 thn you might as well give liu one as well.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

@I Am The LK

 

[I Am The LK]

All I see here is a bunch of salty people here. Im a cage main and I believe he needs alot in this variation to be viable. But I ssee some people here that don't main cage that are talking shit all because it's not their character. Cute