General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

[TeknoOdin]

^ That. I think this board focuses too much on Bone Shaper. As a day 1 Shinnok player as well (not sure tbat matters?) I've found Imposter blows BS out of the water in some matches, and it doesn't make sense why some people use it to me.

this imposter is the strongest when used right ..BS is just and easy to use variation (like inferno scorpion)

I think the topic should be changed entirely. The scrubs and frauds have all been exposed and moved on.

Now, with the latest patch (and possibly an update otw with Tremor and the classic skin pack 2), new brutalities have been introduced into the game for many characters.

Help me find Shinnoks guys. I feel he's got to have a hidden one somewhere.

yes all this bored seem to care about is whining about BS instead of finding some tasty hidden brutalities that are still laying in wait ,come on guys lets catch up to the rest of the roster

 

[4x4lo8o]

Not sure if this is common knowledge, but after landing a neutral jump kick you're guaranteed an ex-Scepter Quake. Njk is already really good, ex-quake follow up is an extra 12% damage into another hard knockdown. You can even follow up quake with that dash up neutral jump cross up thing like after 1123

 

[ArmedCalf]

I'll just straight up admit I have nothing to contribute I'm making a video that's basically a compilation of every Imposter combo I use. Gonna post it on here to see what the gang thinks.

 

[Invincible Salads]

i don't think they should nerf shinnok anymore, or the character would probably end up back at square 1 again. He seems to be in a good place now, like people said top tier, but not broken. I was playing in the lab with him and i realized that you can armor between the last hit of hellsparks and the meterburned hit. so even then it doesnt guarantee you anything by spending the meter.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Btw shinnok steals the punch from tremor.

i don't think they should nerf shinnok anymore, or the character would probably end up back at square 1 again. He seems to be in a good place now, like people said top tier, but not broken. I was playing in the lab with him and i realized that you can armor between the last hit of hellsparks and the meterburned hit. so even then it doesnt guarantee you anything by spending the meter.

Theres no real point to MB the last hit IMO because it wouldnt lead to anything, not even being safe if they have a armored move, which is why I would MB the first spark xx f4 and pray I completed the link.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Theres no real point to MB the last hit IMO because it wouldnt lead to anything, not even being safe if they have a armored move, which is why I would MB the first spark xx f4 and pray I completed the link.

i think they can armor thru the first spark too between the meterburn. Anyways, shinnok was ass, then got buffed, then got normalized. from what i've seen so far, he definitely shouldnt be touched, not until we've given him more time and he somehow proves that he can roflstomp the rest of the cast with ease.

what do you guys think about this characters other variations? need tweaks?

 

[True Grave]

This annoys me...Dark beam and his MB Hell Spark (first hit MB) CAN BE ARMORED!!!
Stop listening to top players who suddenly pick up a character because the easy mode in him is strong (Bone Shaper) Us day 1 Shinnok players know his weakness and laugh at the uneducated fools who think otherwise. They're bandwagon players so let them be. If you don't think so than you're greatly mistaken.

For the record, the only thing I've ever wanted for a buff was an overhead starter and to be safe on block after 3 blocked Hell Sparks. I can deal with being punished if my opponent blocks 2 Hell Sparks while the 3rd one whiffs. Everything else that was added was just a bonus. If you seriously can't up your game and deal with nerfs that MIGHT occur then you shouldn't be playing a character like Shinnok. Instead, tier whore and be done with the crying!

 

[legion666]

This annoys me...Dark beam and his MB Hell Spark (first hit MB) CAN BE ARMORED!!!
Stop listening to top players who suddenly pick up a character because the easy mode in him is strong (Bone Shaper) Us day 1 Shinnok players know his weakness and laugh at the uneducated fools who think otherwise. They're bandwagon players so let them be. If you don't think so than you're greatly mistaken.

For the record, the only thing I've ever wanted for a buff was an overhead starter and to be safe on block after 3 blocked Hell Sparks. I can deal with being punished if my opponent blocks 2 Hell Sparks while the 3rd one whiffs. Everything else that was added was just a bonus. If you seriously can't up your game and deal with nerfs that MIGHT occur then you shouldn't be playing a character like Shinnok. Instead, tier whore and be done with the crying!

What do you mean by being able to armor Dark beam and HS MB 1st hit?

 

[Invincible Salads]

What do you mean by being able to armor Dark beam and HS MB 1st hit?

i think he's sa ying what i was saying. Theres enough time between the normal hellspark hit and the meter burn hit to armour through.

the ai in training mode was doing it to me quite a lot.

 

[legion666]

i think he's sa ying what i was saying. Theres enough time between the normal hellspark hit and the meter burn hit to armour through.

the ai in training mode was doing it to me quite a lot.

Are serious?!) because I swear that was the first thing I checked when Shinnok only got the ability to MB HS and it wasn't possible if MB is hit as soon as possible after the 1st spark hits:/

 

[Helter Skelter]

Just make Dark Beam and Amulet Strike and Amulet Curse +3 on hit and -7 on block.

Amulet Curse is such a pointless move currently. I'm not spending a bar to eat a projectile when I can just teleport in or trade flick with my opponent. Just adjust the frames and give it armor.

I actually agree with him needing to be slightly adjusted but why are people complaining about his 7f Low which he has had since day 1.

I would happily be plus +9 on MB Hell Sparks if it would make people complain less.

Only things I really want are reverse Jell Sparks for a bar and armor on Amulet Curse for a bar.

I've used the character since day 1 and he could never be nerfed into a form worse than what he started in.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Are serious?!) because I swear that was the first thing I checked when Shinnok only got the ability to MB HS and it wasn't possible if MB is hit as soon as possible after the 1st spark hits:/

You can only armor between the 3rd Spark and the MB Spark, everything else is a blockstring

 

[legion666]

You can only armor between the 3rd Spark and the MB Spark, everything else is a blockstring

I know that since the day he got the ability to MB HS. But people are trying to tell me here you can armor between the 1st spark and MB ) which I am doubting

 

[4x4lo8o]

I know that since the day he got the ability to MB HS. But people are trying to tell me here you can armor between the 1st spark and MB ) which I am doubting

Yeah, I'm saying they're wrong. The only time you can armor out is between the 3rd hit and the mb. If you MB any other spark there's no gap for armor

 

[True Grave]

@4x4lo8o @legion666 It was a block string when he was +24, but now that it's +14, your opponent can armor though if they do it to the frame.

Yeah, I'm saying they're wrong. The only time you can armor out is between the 3rd hit and the mb. If you MB any other spark there's no gap for armor

I'd like to know what you're doing when you MB the second Hell Spark because if you're +14 and your F2 is 16 frames on startup then that leaves 1 frame for armor. I said 1 frame and not 2 because my opponent has to let go of block which is 1 frame. If you run then go into f4, well, that's even worse. So what do you do?

I know that since the day he got the ability to MB HS. But people are trying to tell me here you can armor between the 1st spark and MB ) which I am doubting

Again that was when he was +24 lol.

If you guys don't believe then take Shinnok into the Lab and record him doing those block strings and MB Hell Sparks and watch yourself being able to armor.

Also, MB the 3rd Hell Spark "properly" is a very useful tool. If my opponent blocks the third Hell Spark, they can actually jump and after leaving the ground, if you know the window time, you can MB them while they're in air.

I wouldn't be saying any of this if I hadn't seen it with my own eye and then gone to the lab to test it. Please hit the lab so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

 

[legion666]

@4x4lo8o @legion666 It was a block string when he was +24, but now that it's +14, your opponent can armor though if they do it to the frame.



I'd like to know what you're doing when you MB the second Hell Spark because if you're +14 and your F2 is 16 frames on startup then that leaves 1 frame for armor. I said 1 frame and not 2 because my opponent has to let go of block which is 1 frame. If you run then go into f4, well, that's even worse. So what do you do?


Again that was when he was +24 lol.

If you guys don't believe then take Shinnok into the Lab and record him doing those block strings and MB Hell Sparks and watch yourself being able to armor.

Also, MB the 3rd Hell Spark "properly" is a very useful tool. If my opponent blocks the third Hell Spark, they can actually jump and after leaving the ground, if you know the window time, you can MB them while they're in air.

I wouldn't be saying any of this if I hadn't seen it with my own eye and then gone to the lab to test it. Please hit the lab so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

As I understand you mean being able to armor after the MB Hell Sparks hits?

 

[True Grave]

As I understand you mean being able to armor after the MB Hell Sparks hits?

That is correct sir.

 

[legion666]

That is correct sir.

Me and @4x4lo8o thought you were implying armoring through in between the 1st spark and MB hit because you said:

This annoys me...Dark beam and his MB HELL SPARKS (FIRST HIT MB) CAN BE ARMORED!!!
Stop listening to top players who suddenly pick up a character because the easy mode in him is strong (Bone Shaper) Us day 1 Shinnok players know his weakness and laugh at the uneducated fools who think otherwise. They're bandwagon players so let them be. If you don't think so than you're greatly mistaken.

For the record, the only thing I've ever wanted for a buff was an overhead starter and to be safe on block after 3 blocked Hell Sparks. I can deal with being punished if my opponent blocks 2 Hell Sparks while the 3rd one whiffs. Everything else that was added was just a bonus. If you seriously can't up your game and deal with nerfs that MIGHT occur then you shouldn't be playing a character like Shinnok. Instead, tier whore and be done with the crying!

Also if you MB the 1 st Spark +14 is enough to do a short run into f4, which is guaranteed, it can not be armored out of.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I was under the impression that we were discussing armoring between a regular spark and the last hit when you mb(ie, the 4th hit if MB at the end, the second hit if you MB after the 1st spark). In which case there's a gap if you MB at the end, but not if you MB the first or second sparks.

However as far what you're talking about, that's also a blockstring. If they block the first spark and you MB it and then run and f4 it's airtight if you execute it right. There's no chance to get armor out.

Edit: exactly what legion said

 

[legion666]

@4x4lo8o @legion666 It was a block string when he was +24, but now that it's +14, your opponent can armor though if they do it to the frame.



I'd like to know what you're doing when you MB the second Hell Spark because if you're +14 and your F2 is 16 frames on startup then that leaves 1 frame for armor. I said 1 frame and not 2 because my opponent has to let go of block which is 1 frame. If you run then go into f4, well, that's even worse. So what do you do?


Again that was when he was +24 lol.

If you guys don't believe then take Shinnok into the Lab and record him doing those block strings and MB Hell Sparks and watch yourself being able to armor.

Also, MB the 3rd Hell Spark "properly" is a very useful tool. If my opponent blocks the third Hell Spark, they can actually jump and after leaving the ground, if you know the window time, you can MB them while they're in air.

I wouldn't be saying any of this if I hadn't seen it with my own eye and then gone to the lab to test it. Please hit the lab so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

It also sounds like you are the one who needs to hit the lab. First of all because you don't understand the reversal system in this game. When you do armored attack as a reversal, which means on the first frame possible,it doesn't take that 1 extra frame to come out of block- it happens instantly.
Secondly because there are a whole lot of videos in this thread where people are doing this true blockstring on the dummy set to armored reversal:

 

[4x4lo8o]

Also @KHAOTIC True Grave if I understand right you're saying they can armor after the dark beam in the vortex?
If you time your f4 right there's no gap. If you go for the throw or overhead there is a gap they can armor out of, but they can't armor through f4

 

[True Grave]

@4x4lo8o @legion666 I went into the lab and I was wrong in the sense that using F4,1,d2, Hell Spark, run F4,1,d2 can't be interrupted, but if you 112 Hell Spark run into F4,1,d2 it can be.

Also here's this for a debunk. It's super tight to pull off, but it can be done as shown in the video.

 

[4x4lo8o]

@4x4lo8o @legion666 I went into the lab and I was wrong in the sense that using F4,1,d2, Hell Spark, run F4,1,d2 can't be interrupted, but if you 112 Hell Spark run into F4,1,d2 it can be.

Also here's this for a debunk. It's super tight to pull off, but it can be done as shown in the video.

The armor only comes out because you timed the f4 wrong

 

[True Grave]

The armor only comes out because you timed the f4 wrong

No, I did it several times and couldn't armor. I started watching his animations and was able to pull off that armored move.

 

[4x4lo8o]

No, I did it several times and couldn't armor. I started watching his animations and was able to pull off that armored move.

I can't think of a way to conclusively demonstrate that you're right or wrong, but the frame data and my personal experience have supported the idea that you can't armor, so for now I'm just going say agree to disagree.