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General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Rude said:
So, I've been working on Necro Shinnok and Bone Shaper.

I'm having some difficulty applying his mb Hellspark pressure.

As I understand it, if you do something like f41 MB Hellsparks, you can follow up with another f41 in Bone Shaper. In practice, i set the AI to reversal armor. So far, i get armored out of my follow ups.

How do i assure that my follow up after mb Hellsparks is air tight? So far, the pushback even on mb Hellspark after the first fireball pushes them back. If i try to run, i take armor.

How should i fix this?
Click to expand...
Very short run after MBing the first spark and instantly do a F4. You don't have much time, so you have to practice it a lot to get it consistently.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Braindead said:
Very short run after MBing the first spark and instantly do a F4. You don't have much time, so you have to practice it a lot to get it consistently.
Click to expand...
All right. I'll just need to lab it a LOT more.

Thanks.

Generally speaking, when I'm practicing frame traps i set the AI to Reversal Sub EN Slide or Reversal EN Lao spin.
 
SPY

SPY

Noob
Rude said:
All right. I'll just need to lab it a LOT more.

Thanks.

Generally speaking, when I'm practicing frame traps i set the AI to Reversal Sub EN Slide or Reversal EN Lao spin.
Click to expand...
Reversal backdash will make things easier.
*Don't want to bore you, but frame trap is when opponent have enough frames to try to act, but not enough to actually hit or jump out. Shinnok f42d1~HS1mb-f4etc is one continuous string, which you extend at cost of one bar.
 
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legion666

legion666

Champion
Rude said:
So, I've been working on Necro Shinnok and Bone Shaper.

I'm having some difficulty applying his mb Hellspark pressure.

As I understand it, if you do something like f41 MB Hellsparks, you can follow up with another f41 in Bone Shaper. In practice, i set the AI to reversal armor. So far, i get armored out of my follow ups.

How do i assure that my follow up after mb Hellsparks is air tight? So far, the pushback even on mb Hellspark after the first fireball pushes them back. If i try to run, i take armor.

How should i fix this?
Click to expand...
You need to do f41d2xxHS MB 1st hit, Run xx f41d2xxHS etc. The run cancel is very tight but doable. It has to be a very short run into f4, if you do it right the run animation doesn't even come out, Shinnok just moves a step forward and does f4 very quickly.
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
wow the shinnok community is in denial. face it your character is top tier what is wrong with that ? this is not weak one anymore.... you are still good players :p
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
Evil_Riu48 said:
wow the shinnok community is in denial. face it your character is top tier what is wrong with that ? this is not weak one anymore.... you are still good players :p
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Everyone agrees that he is top tier, in the sense that he is like top 10, maybe just outside top 5, BUT nowhere near top 1 as you were saying, there are just other characters who have better dirt.
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
legion666 said:
Everyone agrees that he is top tier, in the sense that he is like top 10, maybe just outside top 5, BUT nowhere near top 1 as you were saying, there are just other characters who have better dirt.
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dirt is not the only thing that makes a character top. matchups are really important and he has an answer for anything others characters have in bone shapper
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Evil_Riu48 said:
dirt is not the only thing that makes a character top. matchups are really important and he has an answer for anything others characters have in bone shapper
Click to expand...
I agree. So far I haven't seen any MU that gives problems to Bone Shaper. This alone makes him a very solid character.

However I don't see him obliterating many characters either. Without meter Bone Shaper becomes a lot less scary. I think once people learn the MU and start pressing his "weakness" it will be a lot easier for them.

Right now it's just new and has that "holy crap" reaction around him. And I really don't want a scare to break out and end up getting him nerfed -_-
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
Braindead said:
I agree. So far I haven't seen any MU that gives problems to Bone Shaper. This alone makes him a very solid character.

However I don't see him obliterating many characters either. Without meter Bone Shaper becomes a lot less scary. I think once people learn the MU and start pressing his "weakness" it will be a lot easier for them.

Right now it's just new and has that "holy crap" reaction around him. And I really don't want a scare to break out and end up getting him nerfed -_-
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i don't think he need a nerf i think he is find the way he is now. i think patients is key when fighting against bone shaper. hopefully he does not get nerf.
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
Braindead said:
I agree. So far I haven't seen any MU that gives problems to Bone Shaper. This alone makes him a very solid character.

However I don't see him obliterating many characters either. Without meter Bone Shaper becomes a lot less scary. I think once people learn the MU and start pressing his "weakness" it will be a lot easier for them.

Right now it's just new and has that "holy crap" reaction around him. And I really don't want a scare to break out and end up getting him nerfed -_-
Click to expand...
That is what I am saying! We, Shinnok players have played him since launch, and only players who don't play him are saying he is the best in the game. And they also like to imply that we consider him low tier. We did consider him low tier, because he fucking was when the game came out. And now, after the buffs a lot of players either starting to use him or losing to him cause they didn't play him before and don't know the MU. But they all are like:" Dat Shinnok community doesn't know their character, or full of downplayers"
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
Evil_Riu48 said:
i don't think he need a nerf i think he is find the way he is now. i think patients is key when fighting against bone shaper. hopefully he does not get nerf.
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Yeah, I mean even if he was the best in the game, it is better for the game to have top tiers which are such because of great footsies and space control in general rather than because of some broken crap like Raiden or prepatch Tanya.
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
legion666 said:
That is what I am saying! We, Shinnok players have played him since launch, and only players who don't play him are saying he is the best in the game. And they also like to imply that we consider him low tier. We did consider him low tier, because he fucking was when the game came out. And now, after the buffs a lot of players either starting to use him or losing to him cause they didn't play him before and don't know the MU. But they all are like:" Dat Shinnok community doesn't know their character, or full of downplayers"
Click to expand...
i use shinnok
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
legion666 said:
That is what I am saying! We, Shinnok players have played him since launch, and only players who don't play him are saying he is the best in the game. And they also like to imply that we consider him low tier. We did consider him low tier, because he fucking was when the game came out. And now, after the buffs a lot of players either starting to use him or losing to him cause they didn't play him before and don't know the MU. But they all are like:" Dat Shinnok community doesn't know their character, or full of downplayers"
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's total bullshit. We've known what is good about this character for awhile now, but when people act like he is the best in the game or that we don't know what we're talking about is just so ridiculous.
 
Sultan

Sultan

Kitana, Scorpion
After about a month of labbing/playing/watching Boneshaper I have a couple observations on my mind:

Boneshaper players need to work on connecting NJP (or finding an alternative altogether) after a max distance Scepter Launch, because myself and other Boneshaper players whiff NJP in that scenario waaayy too much.

Boneshaper players need to start utilizing f4~gun and f41~gun on block more often. It gives you much better spacing than f41d2~gun, allowing for more/better follow up options and pseudo frame traps at the cost of a percent of chip damage.
 
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xInfra Deadx

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Sultan said:
After about a month of labbing/playing/watching Boneshaper I have a couple observations on my mind:

Boneshaper players need to work on connecting NJP (or finding an alternative altogether) after a max distance Scepter Launch, because myself and other Boneshaper players whiff NJP in that scenario waaayy too much.

Boneshaper players need to start utilizing f4~gun and f31~gun on block more often. It gives you much better spacing than f41d2~gun, allowing for more/better follow up options and pseudo frame traps at the cost of a percent of chip damage.
Click to expand...
There's a not so sweet spot from around 3/4 screen where I can't get a neutral jump punch to connect, that the opponent doesn't align right and the combo drops if I do go for a NJP.
 
D. R.

D. R.

Kombatant
I'm going to make a guide when I get a chance post Evo because there is WAY too much misinformation going out about BS Shinnok. Some of you all need to quit talking and actually test things probably, you all know who you all are. It's fucking ridiculous and hinders learning.
 
Sultan

Sultan

Kitana, Scorpion
f41d2~gun leaves you much closer than f4~gun or f41~gun on block. In some matchups you can abuse the added distance from f4~gun. Like say Quan Chi. If Quan blocks f41d2~gun and then pokes out d3, he'll beat basically all of your unarmored followup attacks. Meaning your best option is to just block and let him do what he wants with his plus frames or back off in some way or throw out risky armor.

If Quan blocks f4~gun and then pokes out d3, he's outside of his d3 range, meaning any button you press, like say f4, will effectively counter poke him, netting you a combo. What this means is Quan's options after a blocked f4~gun are more limited than his options after f41d2~gun.

That's just one example of how this could be applied. There are numerous others.
 
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D. R.

D. R.

Kombatant
Sultan said:
f41d2~gun leaves you much closer than f4~gun or f41~gun on block. In some matchups you can abuse the added distance from f4~gun. Like say Quan Chi. If Quan blocks f41d2~gun and then pokes out d3, he'll beat basically all of your unarmored followup attacks. Meaning your best option is to just block and let him do what he wants with his plus frames or back off in some way or throw out risky armor.

If Quan blocks f4~gun and then pokes out d3, he's outside of his d3 range, meaning any button you press, like say f3, will effectively counter poke him, netting you a combo. What this means is Quan's options after a blocked f4~gun are more limited than his options after f41d2~gun.

That's just one example of how this could be applied. There are numerous others.
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Shinnok is still -4 after the gun, regardless of how he got there and where he ends up in proximity to the opponent. A competent opponent will start pressure accordingly no matter the distance. It's nice in theory what you're saying because hardly anyone knows the match up properly but in the long run it will not be practical.
 
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