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General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

legion666

legion666

Champion
xGunShow said:
Me vs Wound (Bone Shaper vs Impostor)
:)

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Awesome set!
What I have noticed is that neither you nor Cowboy are punishing each other's Sparks. When you block the 3rd Spark you can do either Ex Shoulder or Ex Scepter regardless of whether you opponent will MB it or not (cause he is at -22 after the 3rd Spark on block and armor will absorb the next hit if he decides to MB). So you armored move hits anyway. Of course Bone Shaper gets a full combo into the restand. Also if the other Shinnok doesn't have meter you can punish Sparks with normal Scepter or Shoulder.
I am very interested to know you opinion on this MU. Who do you think the mirror favors, Impostor or Bone Shaper?!
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
I actually expect Impostor to be buffed with Bone Shaper being nerfed. Because Impostor as a variation never got any buffs exclusive to it. Necro and Bone Shaper did. Impostor just got better with universal buffs. Also it is the only variation that doesn't have any MB/Ex properties on it's variation specific specials. Always felt unfinished to me:/
 
ArmedCalf

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
legion666 said:
I actually expect Impostor to be buffed with Bone Shaper being nerfed. Because Impostor as a variation never got any buffs exclusive to it. Necro and Bone Shaper did. Impostor just got better with universal buffs. Also it is the only variation that doesn't have any MB/Ex properties on it's variation specific specials. Always felt unfinished to me:/
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Mmmm it doesn't really need any. It's pretty solid as is. The Teleport is great already and I don't really know what they would do to Mimicry.
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
ArmedCalf said:
Mmmm it doesn't really need any. It's pretty solid as is. The Teleport is great already and I don't really know what they would do to Mimicry.
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I personally do struggle in the MU where opponent can punish my sparks regardless of whether I MB the 3rd spark or not (like Raiden or Kitana) so you have to MB 1st or 2nd hit always in order to stay safe. As a result you run out of meter fast and without it Impostor doesn't have a single safe string or special. With Kitana you at least get the vortex. But getting Raiden's superman doesn't help in the MU either)
 
Genei Jin

Genei Jin

Mortal
i hope imposter gets buffed. its too meter dependent and the mb hell spark nerf hurts imposter and necromancer much more than it does to bone shaper.

shinnok needs better stolen moves from takeda, jason and predator.

i would buff his amulet blast. its inferior to the bone shaper phazer in almost every way sans the projectile absorb and being mid.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
DownfouralitY said:
Yeah.. I love you @Doombawkz but man this combo is way too hard to pull off to be practical.
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How is everyone having such a hard time with this?

Just because Shinnok doesn't require any heavy execution doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to produce it. If you can land 312 b.f.3 b.f.3 mid-screen this should be no problem.
Don't gimme this guff about "way too hard to pull off to be practical". People have been pulling 1 frame links out in tourney setting since forever. Stop being such babies.

This isn't even a 1 frame link.
 
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DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
Doombawkz said:
How is everyone having such a hard time with this?

Just because Shinnok doesn't require any heavy execution doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to produce it. If you can land 312 b.f.3 b.f.3 mid-screen this should be no problem.
Don't gimme this guff about "way too hard to pull off to be practical". People have been pulling 1 frame links out in tourney setting since forever. Stop being such babies.

This isn't even a 1 frame link.
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Well if you can't land it 10/10 times I generally don't consider it a viable combo to be used very often, and why would you use this when you can get them put back into the restand in boneshaper/mimicry in Impostor with the possibility of doing way more damage? I just don't think it's really worth it
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
DownfouralitY said:
Well if you can't land it 10/10 times I generally don't consider it a viable combo to be used very often, and why would you use this when you can get them put back into the restand in boneshaper/mimicry in Impostor with the possibility of doing way more damage? I just don't think it's really worth it
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Lots of games are decided by 7 or 8 or 10%. Why would I put them in a restand when I could just kill them? Mind you there are other, higher damaging variations to this.
But Shinnok being able to do 31% on an empty tank in any variation (also this works into mimicry, as in you can combo into it) is pretty good when his previous highest was considered to be 21% in boneshaper only.

Also most combos a lot of people do can't be landed 10/10 times. I think 7/10 is a fair threshhold when a 10% damage increase overall is the reward.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
Doombawkz said:
Lots of games are decided by 7 or 8 or 10%. Why would I put them in a restand when I could just kill them? Mind you there are other, higher damaging variations to this.
But Shinnok being able to do 31% on an empty tank in any variation (also this works into mimicry, as in you can combo into it) is pretty good when his previous highest was considered to be 21% in boneshaper only.

Also most combos a lot of people do can't be landed 10/10 times. I think 7/10 is a fair threshhold when a 10% damage increase overall is the reward.
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Well you would put them in the restand because you can chip them out or go for a throw, likely killing them. I just find the other combos way easier to do and way less risk of dropping them and getting blown up. I haven't tested this much so maybe I could get it down eventually
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
DownfouralitY said:
Well you would put them in the restand because you can chip them out or go for a throw, likely killing them. I just find the other combos way easier to do and way less risk of dropping them and getting blown up. I haven't tested this much so maybe I could get it down eventually
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Its not as hard as it sounds. I'm bad at getting the d.1 into 11 because I'm not used to doing it ever, but once I got it in my head to just do it then it was pretty easy.
Its higher damage variations are a bit harder but mostly the same. I think Bone shaper is the only one who can't optimize it.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
So.... I didn't get the patch yet but....


Should we talk about the fact that Bone Shaper's restand is now actually better in the corner, or should we stay quiet about it until TYM forgets about Bone Shaper?

Or does the beam push Shinnok back if the opponent can't be pushed back?
 
Genei Jin

Genei Jin

Mortal
Braindead said:
So.... I didn't get the patch yet but....


Should we talk about the fact that Bone Shaper's restand is now actually better in the corner, or should we stay quiet about it until TYM forgets about Bone Shaper?

Or does the beam push Shinnok back if the opponent can't be pushed back?
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f22 restand pushes shinnok and his opponent out of the corner
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Let's talk about options after the restand.

You can go into dark beam and be at plus, this pushes the opponent back to outside sweep range. If you immediately go into hellsparks, it can be jumped for a free combo by the opponent. But they have to do it on prediction, so you can bait the jump and get an easy anti air.

You also can run in and start pressure after dark beam but not safely, so you can mix it up with run in block and run in pressure.

Dark beam after restand also puts you in scepter slam range, so that's an option but risky.

This is all I got to test last night, gonna lab some more when I get home tonight.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Juggs said:
Let's talk about options after the restand.

You can go into dark beam and be at plus, this pushes the opponent back to outside sweep range. If you immediately go into hellsparks, it can be jumped for a free combo by the opponent. But they have to do it on prediction, so you can bait the jump and get an easy anti air.

You also can run in and start pressure after dark beam but not safely, so you can mix it up with run in block and run in pressure.

Dark beam after restand also puts you in scepter slam range, so that's an option but risky.

This is all I got to test last night, gonna lab some more when I get home tonight.
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I think I'll occasionally still use it. Maybe once or twice every couple of matches.

I like that we have multiple options now. Bone Shaper should feel great now.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
i thought of a fair tweak they could make to shinnok to make his post mb hellsparks game a stronger mindgame. What if f41d2 mb hellsparks RC d1 was the only way to make it still a block string? as in the d1 is the only move that MUST be blocked, while all others still can be backdashed or armored, etc. It'd make a much stronger mind game, and yet still be fair because if you block the d1 it ends right there (unless he goes for d1~EX scoop, but that'd have to be a good read)
 
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