General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[BoricuaHeat]

Well i wanted to ask you guys if i am in danger whenever i use b34 skrc ? should i use that at all?
i mean in stuntdouble i use it like b34 mc bf 4 and so on. or should i just stick to 114 ?

F3SKRC grants about the same amount benefits as B34SKRC on block so I suggest using that.

 

[kelevra]

D4SKRC is so good. A-List is ridiculous.

Yeah ive been playing around with it lately and damn people get clipped by the d4-SKRC-f24 so often because most are used to poke after a d4.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Considering starting a new thread in the Johnny sub forums addressing his bugs (NOT BUFF REQUESTS). I don't want to outright tag Paulo without other Johnny players' input. If you guys have anything else from the other variations I'd love to hear it.

I'm SD Johnny main so let me get this started:

1. Stunt Double Shadows go away after Johnny is parried, or X-Rayed. Bug or intended?

2. 1,1,4 is marked as High, mid, mid, but if the opponent is duck blocking from the start, the 4 whiffs. Is it a high or mid?!?!? This really affects SD because it's the string with the most + frames when you Shadow Cancel.

3. Sometimes during a projectile trade, The Mimic Shadow Kick seems to lose it's hitbox, thereby whiffing if Johnny is hit by a projectile first.

 

[Phosferrax]

I think 114 will always be a high-mid. It doesn't always whiff against most characters, it seems to be range dependant. The 3rd point you listed seems like a problem but the 1st problem seems to be in line with how NRS games operate.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

After some further practice on using 113SKRC, I've found that it's actually +4 on block as opposed to +5 which either way still allows for a guaranteed D1 check.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I think 114 will always be a high-mid. It doesn't always whiff against most characters, it seems to be range dependant. The 3rd point you listed seems like a problem but the 1st problem seems to be in line with how NRS games operate.

The 114 thing isn't range dependent, it seems to be hitbox dependent. 114 has a gap between 11(gap)4. If you get your timing right, you can let the first 1 whiff, quickly tap block to block the next 1, and if you timed it right the 4 will whiff. Even when you're point blank. I havent tested on a ton of characters because I havent had time, but the whiff definitely happens on Mileena, Tanya and Sub Zero. This is broken. A mid should hit mid.

As for the clones disappearing after X-Ray and parries...Wouldnt you want the clarification? I mean, why does a parry remove it? An X-Ray I sort of more understand, but a parry? It's ridiculous and makes those match ups harder.

 

[Phosferrax]

After some further practice on using 113SKRC, I've found that it's actually +4 on block as opposed to +5 which either way still allows for a guaranteed D1 check.

Are you sure? Is it not slightly negative?

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Considering starting a new thread in the Johnny sub forums addressing his bugs (NOT BUFF REQUESTS). I don't want to outright tag Paulo without other Johnny players' input. If you guys have anything else from the other variations I'd love to hear it.

I'm SD Johnny main so let me get this started:

1. Stunt Double Shadows go away after Johnny is parried, or X-Rayed. Bug or intended?

2. 1,1,4 is marked as High, mid, mid, but if the opponent is duck blocking from the start, the 4 whiffs. Is it a high or mid?!?!? This really affects SD because it's the string with the most + frames when you Shadow Cancel.

3. Sometimes during a projectile trade, The Mimic Shadow Kick seems to lose it's hitbox, thereby whiffing if Johnny is hit by a projectile first.

113 xx rising shadow is really weird as it:
- works against some character and not otehrs (this i get - different hitboxes and such)
- against the character it works against, works infrequently. if this was a spacing issue that would be one thing, but for some characters 113 will connect when JC is on two player side, and never on the 1p side

it would be nice if it just hit consitently - don't really see a reason why it shouldn't. in the very least, against the characters it does work against, make it work on both sides...

 

[Fergus]

Anyone know if Johnny's d4 got a stealth buff or maybe even less recovery on mimic?

Cuz d4 xx mimic in the corner was unsafe vs Cassie's reversal flip, now after the patch he blocks it.

PS. D4 xx mimic is stupid good.

 

[Name v.5.0]

113 xx rising shadow is really weird as it:
- works against some character and not otehrs (this i get - different hitboxes and such)
- against the character it works against, works infrequently. if this was a spacing issue that would be one thing, but for some characters 113 will connect when JC is on two player side, and never on the 1p side

it would be nice if it just hit consitently - don't really see a reason why it shouldn't. in the very least, against the characters it does work against, make it work on both sides...

Seems like only SD is broke. That sucks. I'll add this in.

Also. I did a bunch of testing tonight. No other character with an active trait loses it after a parry. Including scorpion fire aura, subs ice aura, reptile stank cloud, kotal totems and blood sacrifice. I really do think this could be a bug.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Are you sure? Is it not slightly negative?

Still trying to figure out the right number but I'm absolutely sure it's plus on block. I'm currently using Scorp to test out the frame data vs our F3 after run canceling 113. So far he beats out F3 with D1 (6 frames), trades with D3 (7 frames) and beats his D2 (8 frames), sooooo +4. I got a video on it but it has some sound in the back ground,

 

[Derocus]

Question for all you Johnny Pros.
What the flying shit can Johnny do against people constantly just jumping over his head?

 

[Name v.5.0]

Question for all you Johnny Pros.
What the flying shit can Johnny do against people constantly just jumping over his head?

D4. You'll low profile almost all air attacks. This is Johnny's biggest weakness. Good luck.

 

[Phosferrax]

Question for all you Johnny Pros.
What the flying shit can Johnny do against people constantly just jumping over his head?

It's hard to train yourself to do it, but standing 1 is a great anti-crossup. Ex nut punch is also good.

 

[Name v.5.0]

It's hard to train yourself to do it, but standing 1 is a great anti-crossup. Ex nut punch is also good.

You'll get beat by several characters trying this....Sonya, Raiden, Kung Jin, Kotal. Be careful who you try to anti air with a jab everyone.

 

[Phosferrax]

You'll get beat by several characters trying this....Sonya, Raiden, Kung Jin, Kotal. Be careful who you try to anti air with a jab everyone.

Jump ins yeah but crossups get beaten.

 

[Derocus]

I will try both. Thanks for the pointers.
It makes me feel like a giant scrub when someone's jumping all over the place thinking they're Injustice's Batman.

 

[Derocus]

Another question. What does D4 jail into? :v

 

[smokey]

Question for all you Johnny Pros.
What the flying shit can Johnny do against people constantly just jumping over his head?

Options include but not limited to;
EX Nutpunch if you have bar
Standing 1 , d1 or d4 if you can time it, all can beat crossups, but arent the most reliable.
NJP if you make the read on their crossup, but you have to jump with them.
Backdash or run into trip guard works if you are expecting the jump also, you can space yourself so that you can f3/f2/d4 them as they land.

 

[RamenO]

Considering starting a new thread in the Johnny sub forums addressing his bugs (NOT BUFF REQUESTS). I don't want to outright tag Paulo without other Johnny players' input. If you guys have anything else from the other variations I'd love to hear it.

I'm SD Johnny main so let me get this started:

1. Stunt Double Shadows go away after Johnny is parried, or X-Rayed. Bug or intended?

2. 1,1,4 is marked as High, mid, mid, but if the opponent is duck blocking from the start, the 4 whiffs. Is it a high or mid?!?!? This really affects SD because it's the string with the most + frames when you Shadow Cancel.

3. Sometimes during a projectile trade, The Mimic Shadow Kick seems to lose it's hitbox, thereby whiffing if Johnny is hit by a projectile first.

Please, PLEASE let these get fixed. The X-Ray and Parry thing is annoying as all get out. I mentioned it on the previous page as well, but the projectile trade thing just flat out breaks Johnny's zoning game as well, especially when you meter burn the mimic SK. You waste meter for nothing! 114 is also a nasty one.

As for reliable anti-airs, I've found NJP to be good if someone is attempting to cross you up. EX NP is also good but as a cross-up defense and a regular AA. D4 is too godlike in any situation, it reminds me of Sonya and Mileena's D4 in MK9 only really being beat out by jump in kicks(which means be careful against Ermac or Scorpion who can convert for big damage). This is all offline, mind you...

Unfortunately for Johnny mains, I feel like he's the toughest fucking character to use online. His links, especially the D1 after F24 seems ridiculous in the underwater environment. I can hit that all day at locals, but shit seems like SF4 1-frame links online. Good luck finding something reliable as an AA online.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

im kind of having trouble with the Shinnok match up, any suggestions?

 

[Name v.5.0]

im kind of having trouble with the Shinnok match up, any suggestions?

I have a couple of good imposter shinnoks on my friends list and i'll be honest with you...I'm starting to think this is a bad MU. You basically cant punish him. His lows and overheads recover a little too quickly when done raw and most times they are canceled into fireworks. The only thing that punishes fireworks is shadow kick which is great except if he meterburns it you get full combo'd. The risk/reward there blatantly says just block and wait it out. But if you do that he has F2 as a footsie tool to get in from pretty far away. He can lock you down and chip the piss out of you if he keeps meterburning the fireworks. You can armor out of it if you can find the gap.

Good Imposters wont willy nilly teleport on you. Offline, and slightly less online, you can punish it with a NJP. Good players will be tricky and whiff it on purpose and then use fireworks or whatever other bullshit. Makes it hard to be on the spot about punishing it. You have to respect Shinnok in the air for the most part.

In fact you have to respect Imposter quite a bit. But once you knock him down, he's yours. He has shit wake ups. The trick I've found to winning is never ending pressure and good reads.

Good luck.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I have a couple of good imposter shinnoks on my friends list and i'll be honest with you...I'm starting to think this is a bad MU. You basically cant punish him. His lows and overheads recover a little too quickly when done raw and most times they are canceled into fireworks. The only thing that punishes fireworks is shadow kick which is great except if he meterburns it you get full combo'd. The risk/reward there blatantly says just block and wait it out. But if you do that he has F2 as a footsie tool to get in from pretty far away. He can lock you down and chip the piss out of you if he keeps meterburning the fireworks. You can armor out of it if you can find the gap.

Good Imposters wont willy nilly teleport on you. Offline, and slightly less online, you can punish it with a NJP. Good players will be tricky and whiff it on purpose and then use fireworks or whatever other bullshit. Makes it hard to be on the spot about punishing it. You have to respect Shinnok in the air for the most part.

In fact you have to respect Imposter quite a bit. But once you knock him down, he's yours. He has shit wake ups. The trick I've found to winning is never ending pressure and good reads.

Good luck.

Shadow kick punish on regular fireworks is tight offline and online its a huge risk, most of the time people are able to duck/block because of delay.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I have a couple of good imposter shinnoks on my friends list and i'll be honest with you...I'm starting to think this is a bad MU. You basically cant punish him. His lows and overheads recover a little too quickly when done raw and most times they are canceled into fireworks. The only thing that punishes fireworks is shadow kick which is great except if he meterburns it you get full combo'd. The risk/reward there blatantly says just block and wait it out. But if you do that he has F2 as a footsie tool to get in from pretty far away. He can lock you down and chip the piss out of you if he keeps meterburning the fireworks. You can armor out of it if you can find the gap.

Good Imposters wont willy nilly teleport on you. Offline, and slightly less online, you can punish it with a NJP. Good players will be tricky and whiff it on purpose and then use fireworks or whatever other bullshit. Makes it hard to be on the spot about punishing it. You have to respect Shinnok in the air for the most part.

In fact you have to respect Imposter quite a bit. But once you knock him down, he's yours. He has shit wake ups. The trick I've found to winning is never ending pressure and good reads.

Good luck.

And I have trouble getting in to pressure him because of fireworks.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Shadow kick punish on regular fireworks is tight offline and online its a huge risk, most of the time people are able to duck/block because of delay.

That's what I meant by the risk in trying to punish it, isn't worth the reward. It's better to just let him blow his meter.