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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Been trying to learn the A-list version of this character but I just don't get it.

From what I can see, Dizzy knee is really good as a whiff punisher, but I'm not really able to use it for pressure. I think I'm relying on it too much and that's not the crux of the character.

Not sure what f24 charge is really supposed to do. Frame data says it is + on block full charge, but from my testing it was quite negative.

Perhaps I should be use 121 charge more?

Basically, the gist I'm getting with this character is I'm supposed to use the charge moves for pressure, but I'm really just not understanding how they are supposed to be properly used.

Anyone have a general idea of how A-List is supposed to work?
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Just saw Michaelangelo play some A-List Cage on ECT stream. The gist I'm getting is his charge moves aren't for "dash cancel for moar pressure" but as a sort of way to keep the opponent guessing.

I dunno, I was using knee->run->cancels as sort of Kabal-style NDC's. I guess I went wrong there.
 
Fergus

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
A-List is strong because of the meterless + on block confirms you can get off 113 (altho a bit tight in terms of execution) and F3.

So you can kinda form a gameplay around the following

11 then throw, F24 overhead, more 11s
113 Run cancel to beat the opponent trying to interrupt the above or act as a ghetto mixup between 11 F24 or 113 RC.

F3 poking/whiff punishing at neutral and RC it, confirm on hit into a combo or continue pressure on block (maybe above flowchart) and do stuff like F24 to beat buttons as you're massively + or even another F3 RC if you have enough stamina.

I personally think the 11/113 pressure is the best use of A-List.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Tony at Home said:
Been trying to learn the A-list version of this character but I just don't get it.

From what I can see, Dizzy knee is really good as a whiff punisher, but I'm not really able to use it for pressure. I think I'm relying on it too much and that's not the crux of the character.

Not sure what f24 charge is really supposed to do. Frame data says it is + on block full charge, but from my testing it was quite negative.

Perhaps I should be use 121 charge more?

Basically, the gist I'm getting with this character is I'm supposed to use the charge moves for pressure, but I'm really just not understanding how they are supposed to be properly used.

Anyone have a general idea of how A-List is supposed to work?
Click to expand...
Most of his strings canceled into Shadow Kick Run Cancel are plus on block, some are heavily plus on block. F24 SKRC is plus on block, but you have to do the RC as soon as you can, otherwise you'll started using up the plus frames and will be negative.

The character does the same as the other variations, but in it's specific way. This is the most technical and most execution heavy variation, and you have to get the RC's on point if you want to use him.
 
Devin Thorn

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
a-list feels very difficult to use, enough so that it seems your better off not using him online usually as it's easy to get boned trying to do rc pressure with him with this awesome net code + shitty pings
 
kelevra

kelevra

Steel cable bungee jumper
I really dont get the whining for buffing his pokes.
Land a d4 Skrc into a mixup 3 times in a Match and I promise you that your opponent will be shitting his pants at d4 range (because its retarded good)
 
NapalmCL

NapalmCL

Professional training dummy
kelevra said:
I really dont get the whining for buffing his pokes.
Land a d4 Skrc into a mixup 3 times in a Match and I promise you that your opponent will be shitting his pants at d4 range (because its retarded good)
Click to expand...
I dont know of anyone who has been whining for better pokes. Mostly just the lack of reliable AA.
 
Derocus

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
I don't know why all you guys think Johnny's D4 has good range. I played Kano first, and the range on his d4 was way bigger. Actually, a lot of characters' d4 have better range than Johnny's.
Johnny's d4 can't connect at the starting position. I don't like that :v
 
Movieland KerrHolden

Movieland KerrHolden

Noob
Derocus said:
I don't know why all you guys think Johnny's D4 has good range. I played Kano first, and the range on his d4 was way bigger. Actually, a lot of characters' d4 have better range than Johnny's.
Johnny's d4 can't connect at the starting position. I don't like that :v
Click to expand...
there are better for sure (kano, Dvorrah), but that certainly doesnt make JC's bad.

its also more integral to his game then a bunch of other characters (again, not to be read as an absolute) due your opponents fear of f24. people are gonna be blokcing high a lot against JC and you need to use d4's to check them and condition them into blocking low.

its also really important to variations like a list and stunt double because things like d4 xx bf4rc and d4 xx mimic are really strong in setting up JC's gameplan.

so its not so the actual move in its base form being celebrated, but what you can get out of its use. he gets more out of D4 than a lot of other characters.
 
Fergus

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
Some true blockstrings to use after nutpunch or d4 in corner.

J2 = 1.25%
BF4 = 2%
114 = 2.75%
214 = 3%
333 = 3%
EX Clone DB1 = 3.5%
EX FB = 4%
EX DB1 = 5.25%

333 xx BF4 = 5% (Meterless)

333 xx EX DB1 = 8.25% (1 Bar, No Clones)

333 xx Ex CLone DB1 > 333 xx BF4 = 11.50% (1 Bar, 1 Clone)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx BF4 = 12.75% (1 Bar, 1 Clone)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx EX Clone DB1 > JI2 > 333 xx BF4 = 20.50% (2 Bars, 2 Clones)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx Ex Clone DB1 > JI2 > 333 xx EX DB1 = 23.75% (3 Bars, 2 Clones)
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Fergus said:
Some true blockstrings to use after nutpunch or d4 in corner.

J2 = 1.25%
BF4 = 2%
114 = 2.75%
214 = 3%
333 = 3%
EX Clone DB1 = 3.5%
EX FB = 4%
EX DB1 = 5.25%

333 xx BF4 = 5% (Meterless)

333 xx EX DB1 = 8.25% (1 Bar, No Clones)

333 xx Ex CLone DB1 > 333 xx BF4 = 11.50% (1 Bar, 1 Clone)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx BF4 = 12.75% (1 Bar, 1 Clone)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx EX Clone DB1 > JI2 > 333 xx BF4 = 20.50% (2 Bars, 2 Clones)

333 xx EX Clone DB1 > J2 > 333 xx Ex Clone DB1 > JI2 > 333 xx EX DB1 = 23.75% (3 Bars, 2 Clones)
Click to expand...
Dont use those enders if you want to be safe though. Instead end in B3,4,3. 3.75%
 
C

currentlemon

Noob
I'm playing Johnny with his Stunt Double variation and have been practicing his combos for a while. When I played my first matches I ended up losing some games as expected. Online is very limiting and I can't get my cancels right due to limited connections (screw you AT&T U-verse). Since I'm new to MKX and still learning the game I should probably stick to training mode for a while.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
F2 skrc is great It's so much more plus on block than f24, but its a shame it's so hard to hit confirm.

@BoricuaHeat I'm not sure that 113 skrc is plus on block. Im sure I've got the cancel as tight as possible and I'm trading with equal start-up moves.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I'm thinking about taking A-List Cage for a spin (just casually for now, not sure if he's in my long term plans competitively), is there a compiled list of normals/strings that are cancellable into SKRC and what they are on block? If not, can I suggest a thread be made for this information?
 
BoricuaHeat

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Phosferrax said:
Was using standing 1 against Scorpions S.1 (9f) and could get it to trade.
Click to expand...
I'm doing the same thing and beating Scorp's 1 with our 1


@STRYKIE I'll be sure to make a thread this week with all the frame data I've got on A List Johnny. To start things off tho, his key normals/strings when SKRC'd on block are as follows: F2SKRC and F3SKRC +15, F24SKRC +9, D4SKRC +7 or slightly higher, 113SKRC +4. I'll be sure to revise them before making the thread but so far these numbers seem to be pretty accurate.
 
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rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
BoricuaHeat said:
I'm doing the same thing and beating Scorp's 1 with our 1


@STRYKIE I'll be sure to make a thread this week with all the frame data I've got on A List Johnny. To start things off tho, his key normals/strings when SKRC'd on block are as follows: F2SKRC and F3SKRC +15, F24SKRC +9, D4SKRC +7 or slightly higher, 113SKRC +4. I'll be sure to revise them before making the thread but so far these numbers seem to be pretty accurate.
Click to expand...
Gezzzzz, this frame datas are on perfect cancels right? still really good.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
BoricuaHeat said:
@STRYKIE I'll be sure to make a thread this week with all the frame data I've got on A List Johnny. To start things off tho, his key normals/strings when SKRC'd on block are as follows: F2SKRC and F3SKRC +15, F24SKRC +9, D4SKRC +7 or slightly higher, 113SKRC +4. I'll be sure to revise them before making the thread but so far these numbers seem to be pretty accurate.
Click to expand...
Thanks man, I look forward to it.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
BoricuaHeat said:
It's ridiculous how good run cancel pressure is in this game, I can just imagine how good it will look once all A List players master these cancels.
Click to expand...
Yes it is, i play mostly SD, but i used to play a-list, and lately im using a-list again to master the cancels, 113skrc113np/backdash is already ridiculous good. F2 is really good too!
 
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