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ask scorpion thread

SpyderJ

SpyderJ

Noob
Im always interested in what people's view of the vortex is. I dont want to start any arguments so ill leave my opinion out of it but I personaly will only use it if I am in a very unfavorable position and am able to catch them with a spear. Only situation, other than that I do not believe it is worth the risk when he can do so damn well without being a risky character.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
I use safe options:

3,3,4
f+3
1,1,1
d+3
d+4

All of these options cannot be punished easily or at all and they lead to jip or jik from my opponent & then the anti-air begins:

njp~teleport
3~teleport
b+2
jik~teleport
:en spear

I also use stagger strings & tick throws:

1,1 - d+3 - 3,3~takedown or spear

jip,1 - grab

and my best tool is grab mix-ups:

I hellfire after a grab to train them to jump upon their wake up then I will shoot a spear instead of hellfire & they will have to use a wake-up attack of get caught in this clever mix-up
 
Y

YougotCaged1

Banned
My playstyle revolves around keeping the opponent guessing whenever they're not hitting me. Mid-full screen, hellfire to bait jumps, catch them with spear or teleport. I tend to bait and punish a lot, and keep my enemy guessing all the time. I love the vortex. I'd only use the unsafe options If I have a breaker or need to make a comeback. Otherwise block strings, tick throws, and pokes work well. I've been havoc great success with jip 1, d1, throw as a vortex tick setup. If they try to crouch without block or break the throw, Scorpions lovely 6 frame decent range d1 stuffs them and they will mostly block afterwards.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I had some more time to mess with the whole 2, 1+2 string hit confirm in training.

The 1+2 would be a practical hit confirm if you didn't have to choose between spear and takedown on hit. If the shoulder was safe on block it would be practical to buffer the spear and hit 1 if you see the move hit. It's not safe though so In this case you would have to recognize if it hits before you could buffer anything and then do either qcb 4 or back back 1.

Btw the 2, 1+2 string does catch people off guard in certain situations but that's about it. Anyone who knows about it will block it all the time after seeing the first 2, that alone gives you a ton of time to confirm that you have to block high. You do have a safe string if you commit to takedown at the end regardless of hit or block but if used as that type of tool you have better options.

BTW Scorpion does have a safe 50/50 with a little more damage after the patch now. If you don't want to risk eating a full combo on a wrong guess you can either f+3 into pressure or f+4 xx takedown for a nice little chunk of damage and it's totally safe. Before the only safe low option was sweep.
 
ELC

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Scoot Magee said:
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I had some more time to mess with the whole 2, 1+2 string hit confirm in training.

The 1+2 would be a practical hit confirm if you didn't have to choose between spear and takedown on hit. If the shoulder was safe on block it would be practical to buffer the spear and hit 1 if you see the move hit. It's not safe though so In this case you would have to recognize if it hits before you could buffer anything and then do either qcb 4 or back back 1.

Btw the 2, 1+2 string does catch people off guard in certain situations but that's about it. Anyone who knows about it will block it all the time after seeing the first 2, that alone gives you a ton of time to confirm that you have to block high. You do have a safe string if you commit to takedown at the end regardless of hit or block but if used as that type of tool you have better options.

Scorpion does have a safe 50/50 with a little more damage after the patch now. If you don't want to risk eating a full combo on a wrong guess you can either f+3 into pressure or f+4 xx takedown for a nice little chunk of damage and it's totally safe. Before the only safe low option was sweep.
Click to expand...
Why are you choosing spear after 2,1+2? Use Teleport.

Not saying it's any more hit-confirmable, but 2,1+2xxTeleport dash Pressure-String xx Spear jx.P F2,1xxTeleport is a valid reset-combo (31% if I'm not mistake too).
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
ELC said:
Why are you choosing spear after 2,1+2? Use Teleport.

Not saying it's any more hit-confirmable, but 2,1+2xxTeleport dash Pressure-String xx Spear jx.P F2,1xxTeleport is a valid reset-combo (31% if I'm not mistake too).
Click to expand...
I'm not but I see what you mean, I don't use the string at all because I don't think it's useful. In a guaranteed damage situation sure that's a great combo but as far as pressure goes I would never use it.

Like I said before, even if it could be confirmed off of consistently the overhead isn't going to hit anyone good anyway.
 
Bildslash

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Toying with Scorpion I came by this more damaging alternative:

j.:fp/:bp, :fp :fp xx Spear, nj.:fp/:bp, ji.:fk/:bk xx Teleport, dash :r + :bk :fk xx Spear - 36%

This is just 2% shy from the damage of the current BnB. The big difference is that you get to send across the screen, which translates in ample time to use :l + :bp or any low attack while Scorpion drags them back.

I'm going to experiment with it. Because if it becomes as easy to land as the current BnB then Scorpion must switch over to this one.
 
ELC

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Combo 1:
2,1+2 xx Teleport PS xx Spear (jover.P) F2,1 xx Teleport

Combo 2:
jin.K xx Teleport, PS xx Spear (jover.P) F2,1 xx Teleport

Which of these would you say is the best for punishing with a setup into the vortex? Combo 2 has better damage, but Combo 1 has faster startup (12f versus jump animation + jin.K animation)

EDIT: I meant punishing the floating ball animation after blocked teleports.
 
Bildslash

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Against what? I suppose you talk about blocked teleports, superman, kano's ball, etc.

You can add :l + :bp prior to the second combo, which would yield the most damage AFAIK.
 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
Hey ELC the 1st combo you posted won't connect because during the 1+2 Scorpion will go underneath the opponent. If the 1+2 does connect, the teleport after that won't connect.

The 2nd combo you posted does 34%. Like Bild-Slash said, adding B+2 at the beginning will do more damage (38%).

I did some tests and I believe these are his highest teleport punish combos leading to vortex:

B+2, JK, Teleport, dash, 1, 1, 1, Spear, JIP, F+2, 1, Teleport (38%) <-- After the first teleport you can do any string. I just like 1, 1, 1.
B+2, JK, Teleport, JK, Teleport, D+1, Spear, JIP, F+2, 1, Teleport (41%) <-- REALLY hard to do
B+2, JK, EX Teleport, Teleport, dash, 1, 1, Spear, JIP, F+2, 1, Teleport (43%) <-- 1 meter, kind of hard to do
 
ELC

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Editted original post with what I was looking for: my bad for the ambiguity.

38% Punish into Vortex set-up sounds good. Thanks Red.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
poke

ex teleport is safe on block. usually I put a 1,1 string after that but lately i have been getting poked out of this pressure right after the ex tp and try to dash and 1,1.

was it always like this? I dont think anyone has ever poked me out of this before the patch
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I know scorpions teleport whiff has been discussed before but I wanted to try some stuff out and I need help from other players on here. I can't test anything out with a real person at the moment and I don't know the next time I'll be able to.

Anyway we all know scorpion can cause a whiff off an instant air teleport and a teleport right before hitting the ground. The IA teleport timing is extremely unforgiving and is extremely punishable if miss timed. The one late in the jump is easier to see coming but easier to time so I've been working on setups revolving around that one. I've only been able to do this vs the training dummy so I need some input from people who can really test it.

Anyway the setup starts off a basic bnb combo off of a spear. So after a spear you would NJP, B+2, jump kick xx teleport 11xx teleport. After the last teleport hits the player ends up at your feet. instantly jump over and do the teleport before hitting the ground. I'm pretty sure this can really mess up wake up attacks and if you see a quick roll you can just teleport in the other direction. If they're holding block when they get up the character will be facing in the other direction and actually make the whiff easier to achieve without the crazy strict timing (though this can probably be easily stopped by quickly releasing and repressing block so I would try to keep it as close to the ground as possible). From here you can choose any of scorpions low or high risk options. If they adjust you can replace the jump in TP with a normal jip.

I'll post a vid when I have a chance but that's just one example. If anyone can try this vs a person with wake up attacks and ect that would be great. If it turns out to be good it'll be a good option for high damage output into a vortex like situation without the teleport stagger.

Again this is just something I've been doing vs a dummy so this could be ineffective vs a person.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
You can use it in the same manor that its used for smoke and thats to lock your opponent into some crazy pressure. You dont have to use it after a BnB combo per se, but it works best that way.

I had the pleasure of playing a few matches against Slips the other night and he used it to pressure the hell out of me and gave me no room to breathe. He would also used it after a tick throw to lock me down. It also stopped me from using wake-ups because he got to the other side so fast that the input got screwed.

The :en version is a thing of beauty. Its more forgiving because of the second hit and you cannot be uppercutted out of it ( I tried w/ Sektor ) so your forced to block and get locked into pressure. I thought I out smarted Slips by letting the :en TP connect but he just did a regular instant TP and locked me down again.

Its worth leaning, I have the :en version down perfect but the normal version is a pain in the ass!
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
IAT doesn't really feel that practical to me cause it's so hard to do consistently. I can get it down pretty consistent on one side but even then theirs room for error that can cost me a match. Has there been anyone that uses the IAT a lot in actual matches without error?
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
I wish I was recording when I played slips because he was doing it perfectly every round.

But you should go into practice w/ Sektor and if you can master his from the left side of the screen you'll have Scorpions from the right side.
 
E

eyehaveyou17

Noob
I understand the set ups use but when a intelligent player tech rolls in messes up your direction and timing. Leading to scorpion possibly whiffing moves and getting punished. So I would rather go for a safe jump or vortex opportunity if I had the chance.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
You have plenty of time to see the tech roll though so you can just use jip or teleport in the other direction.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Tech roll will actually do Scorpion good because if he makes a mistake on the instant TP it will wiff regardless

also what if he grabs or air throws you? you cant tech those.

and another interesting fact in the instant TP has ZERO recovery so you can go into any of Scorpions pressure options, block, poke, etc.
 
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