ask scorpion thread

[Bildslash]

The pressure depends on what decision the players will be after the reaction. Assuming you (Scorpion) did the reset (Far 2nd Spear ~ D+1) and forced your opponent to stand/block, if they jump, AA or NJP~Teleport. They rest of the options are self-explanatory.

So I'm wondering then, if that d3 is used to bring your opponent out of their grounded position, wouldn't they just jump out of any further pressure once they were brought back into a standing position? That's what I noticed with similar set-ups on my end. It seems like the favorite tactic regaurding low pressure like that. Looks pretty legit though if you figure out a form of pressure which acts as both pressure and potential anti-air.

is good for anti-airing as well, specially since you're pretty close to the opponent.

So basically, doing + ~ has you covered for pretty much all important scenarios.

Meaty D3 seems short and self-explanatory once you know the individual terms.

Just a quick question, can this work after Poke~Spear, nj.P dash B2 jin.K~Teleport jin.K~Teleport? Or is at least possible to do Poke~Spear, nj.P dash B2 jin.K~Teleport 2 1+2 Spear?

Only if for whatever reason they don't block the initial spear following the poke. Do what others have said, + ~ , and you can hit confirm into Spear from there.

Those combos should work as normal because the opponent is forced to stand up.

 

[ELC]

Only if for whatever reason they don't block the initial spear following the poke. Do what others have said, + ~ , and you can hit confirm into Spear from there.

Those combos should work as normal because the opponent is forced to stand up.

What I meant by Poke~Spear is like 1~Spear, 1,1~Spear, 3~Spear, etc.: not, say, D1~Spear on a grounded opponent. And not talking about a follow-up to Meaty D3: F3 3,3 sounds like a nice frame-trap: I'm interested in seeing whether the Meaty D3 will work after the double jin.K~Tele BnB.

 

[Bildslash]

What I meant by Poke~Spear is like 1~Spear, 1,1~Spear, 3~Spear, etc.: not, say, D1~Spear on a grounded opponent. And not talking about a follow-up to Meaty D3: F3 3,3 sounds like a nice frame-trap: I'm interested in seeing whether this will work after the double jin.K~Tele BnB.

Ok, I think I got it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but double Tele doesn't work with that. You can't juggle further other than with + following the double JIK xx Tele. Plus, Tele causes the regular knockdown state.

The second in-combo Spear has this unique property for this special knockdown setup.

 

[ELC]

Gotcha. Still ... the damage difference between the jin.K~Tele x2 BnB and, let's say, Poke~Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K~Teleport dash 3,3 Spear shouldn't be too much considering there's only a 4% difference dropping one of the jin.K~Tele at the end. if dash 2,1+2 Spear works at the end of that, then even better: don't have to worry about the opponent going behind ya.

Shame I have to wait an hour to test this juicy tech out lol.

 

[ELC]

Key

Spoiler

(A) A is optional
[A/B] Exclusively A or B
Pressure-string: 1,1; 2,1; 3,3
Poke: D1; D4; 1; 2; 3

BnB Discretion

Spoiler

What is this now? (jin.P) Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport jin.K xx [Teleport/Air Throw] :36-40% damage.
Why should I care? Since both strings do the same amount of damage, the real difference comes in where your opponent winds up after the combo. Ending with a second Teleport puts them right at your feet, and ending with Air Throw puts them at full-screen. Obviously, one should be favored over the other for certain matchups, such as ending with Air Throw for Johnny Cage and Nightwolf or ending with Teleport for Ermac and Cyrax.
Why shouldn't use "Option 3"? Option 3, or (jin.P) Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport dash 1,1 xx Takedown, does a similar amount of damage, but leaves the opponent at jump distance, which is a huge hole in Scorpion's strategy in terms of what options he has.

Vortex Part I: Mix-Ups

Spoiler

What is this now? (jin.P) [B2 jin.K xx Teleport dash 3,3 Spear/F4 xx Spear] (jover.P) F2,1 xx Teleport :20+% damage with reset plus good advantage.
Why should I care? Scorpion's best 50/50 mix-up can be "looped" with this, since Teleport on standing-hit will stagger the opponent long enough for a dash/jin.P into B2 or F4 xx Spear.

Vortex Part 2: Anti-Air

Spoiler

What is this now? ( [Poke/Pressure-string] xx Teleport dash 3,3 xx ) Spear (jover.P) F2,1 xx Teleport :20+% damage with reset plus good advantage.
Why should I care? Scorpion's best meterless AA combos end with a Vortex setup. Also, due to the decreased advantage on jin.P, this can be "looped" as well if your opponent decides to jump instead of block/duck-block.

Vortex Part 3: BnB

Spoiler

What is this now? (jin.P) Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport F4,3 Spear :34-38% damage.
Why should I care? Use this in place of the Meaty D3 3,3 Frame Trap to set up a vortex, negate wake-ups, and keep most of the BnB damage.[/U]

Meaty D3 3,3 Frame Trap

Spoiler

What is this now? (jin.P) Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport 1,1 xx Spear ... D3 ... 3,3 : 34 - 38% damage with wake-up stuffing meaty followed by frametrap 3,3
Why should I care? Use this in place of the double jin.K xx Teleport BnB if your opponent as some good anti-pressure wake-up options and the extra damage won't end the match. Only works after double spear knockdown.

Just Frame Safe Teleport

Spoiler

What is this now? Since it's more of a timing skill than a muscle memory skill, I'll spare the combo jargon for once. Basically, it's an Air Teleport that is performed so low to the ground that the entire attack is cancelled before it hits. Much safer than regular Teleport.
Why should I care? Ever had trouble getting in without meter against a zoner? This is your answer. Be wary: while possible to do a regular jump then Teleport low to the ground, it's generally better to do an instant air Teleport instead.
Other Relevant Links Safe Teleport Setups

Shoutouts

Spoiler

Shoutouts to @RedDijinn for the BnB tutorial video
Shoutouts to @King for the Vortex tutorial video
Shoutouts to @Check for discovering the Meaty D3 3,3 Frame Trap and Kedra for the tutorial video
Shoutouts to [MENTION=2574]Trini_Bwoi[/MENTION] (whoever the hell you are) for the Safe Teleport tutorial video
Shoutouts to @Slips for helping put Scorpion on the map
Shoutouts to every single one of ya who play Scorpion
Shoutouts to @Storms for bringing this to the front page

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

 

[ryublaze]

How about the safe teleport? D1, Teleport anti-air?

 

[ryublaze]

Ok, I think I got it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but double Tele doesn't work with that. You can't juggle further other than with + following the double JIK xx Tele. Plus, Tele causes the regular knockdown state.

The second in-combo Spear has this unique property for this special knockdown setup.

I think since the opponent is on the ground longer, it's the same as if you choose to hold down while knocked down. Set the AI to "Duck" and "Always Block" so that he stays on the floor. Throw him, teleport then try the d3 tech. It should put the opponent back up.

 

[ELC]

Added just frame teleport and explained what I mean by pokes and pressure-strings in the Key

 

[Kedra]

There is a possibility that this could be removed if there was another upcoming patch.
Johnny Cage's + ~ + is gone and Kenshi hasn't in the recent patch( I hope not lol).

Another sliding knockdown setup:

Do a combo without using the spear from the start. End the juggle with a spear and do a Neutral jump punch then cancelling it to
Whifffed Air Teleport Punch to get close to the opponent while he/she is in a long sliding knockdown. Reset with :en hellfire or any approach.

Example:
Jump In/, + xx Teleport Punch, xx Teleport Punch, l/+ xx Spear(input l for negative edge), NJ/ (end juggle) xx Teleport Punch (reset upclose with :enHellfire or jump in /).

(space reserved for video)

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

After the second chain and d3, do you have frame advantage? or do you have a vortex opportunity? or whatever. Can you please explain to me why in the world should I bother using this. Thanks.

 

[Kedra]

After the second chain and d3, do you have frame advantage? or do you have a vortex opportunity? or whatever. Can you please explain to me why in the world should I bother using this. Thanks.

It shuts down your opponent's wake-up options. No, it has no frame advantage. It's almost a vortex but not close enough because the opponent can either jump, block, guess, etc. Then it's up to you decide to make your move.

 

[ELC]

After the second chain and d3, do you have frame advantage? or do you have a vortex opportunity? or whatever. Can you please explain to me why in the world should I bother using this. Thanks.

Try using it in place of a BnB, specifically this combo: Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport dash 1,1 xx Spear. Only 3% less than the jin.K xx Teleport / jin.K xx Air Throw finishers, and negates attempts to escape pressure during wakeup.

EDIT: It's like a blend of BnB damage and Vortex advantage

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

Try using it in place of a BnB, specifically this combo: Pressure-string xx Spear nj.P dash B2 jin.K xx Teleport dash 1,1 xx Spear. Only 3% less than the jin.K xx Teleport / jin.K xx Air Throw finishers, and negates attempts to escape pressure during wakeup.

EDIT: It's like a blend of BnB damage and Vortex advantage

So What I think what everyone's telling me to learn this and mix it up with my bnb just to further frustrate my opponent haha.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I just got a chance to play around w/ this and I've concluded that:

1. The timing isn't strict at all & it is guaranteed as long as he slides directly in front of you. The window is from when you recovery until your opponent can recovery, it isn't a huge window but its more than enough time to d+3. Here are 2 example combos that put your opponent directly at your feet:

a. jip,1,1~spear - 2,1+2~spear - d+3​

b. jip,1,1~spear - njp, dash, B+2, jik~teleport - dash, 2,1~spear - d+3​

2. To continue pressure after d+3 use the 3,3 trap so your opponent cant poke or uppercut out of the pressure. If you opponent blocks the d+3 - 3,3 trap:

a. finish the string. 3,3,4 is safe on block​

b. 3,3~takedown and if that's blocked follow takedown up w/ :en takedown​

3. After d+3 follow up w/ d+4 to provoke jip's or jik's and anti air w/ 3~teleport

 

[Shadow VII]

Dat Tech! :top:

 

[Slips]

This new tech is pretty good. I think the best option is d+3 buffered into takedown. Mix it up with d+3 into throw and you gotta a pretty good guessing game there.

Another interesting note, is that the farther away the spear hits (full screen) the more time you have to hit them on the ground before wake-up. If you do jip, 11, spear, 2+1+2 spear, you can actually do b+2 or takedown for free as well before they can do their wake-up attack. So in that scenario you get a free guessing game between takedown and b+2 lol. Too bad you lose out on so much damage though. If you do Scorps normal combos into double spear he doesn't recover in time to do the takedown cause they don't have to drag as far and get to recover faster. Normal vortex gives you more options and more damage rather than this, but its interesting.

 

[YougotCaged1]

Can someone test if jip~21 spear~ njp~ b2, jk teleport, 11 teleport allows you to use d3 to get them up faster. I know it's supposed to be for combos ending in spears but the teleport leaves you right next to them possibly free to d3. Another small little piece of tech I've been using lately is off of the 21 string, you can end it in low slide for a low or finish the string212 for an overhead. Punishable, but it's been catching people off guard for me.

 

[emerc]

I've been using this for awhile against zoning characters, as putting them at full screen/jump is sometimes less beneficial than gambling on the reset.. Had great results with d3~grab as well.

 

[Kedra]

I'm gonna use this next week for the upcoming tournament.
I'm sorry K.O.E_18 if didn't post any vids of human testing, my brothers are busy for the time being.
But I'm sure im gonna record some of my matches next week.

 

[SpyderJ]

What playstyle, strategy, and tools do you use?

I was going to make a poll for this but it would be difficult to actually hit each and every strategy and style with scorpion since there are still more things about him that I'm sure that I don't even know about.

Is your game plan primarily about going for the vortex to catch the opponent in the very risky but very rewarding 50/50 game, or do you like to go all out and put so much pressure on the opponent that you will take their life down little by little and pounce on every opportunity that presents its self. Do you focus more on baiting pressure and jump ins from people and look to AA them with a D+1 / Standing 3 TP, and bait out pressure / combo string and punish with a spear or B+2.

Any specific quirk or niche that you use will be perfect, but it just seems like so many people have very different styles, strategies, and tools that they "focus" on using.

 

[Saint]

The vortex is in a way going all out.

It's only a tactic I will resort to if I'm in trouble and need to turn the tables.

Jump ins are very stupid I feel like, if you play a seasoned player he will punish 9/10 of them.

I like to bait my opponents and capitalize on their mistakes. With my 1 string and AA's.

 

[shoshinsha]

I like to bait my opponents and capitulate on their mistakes. With my 1 string and AA's.

 

[Deadly Torcher]

LOL

I bait & hope I AA them with a spear, then go for the vortex. When they realise they can't jump in, I do hellfire alot so they have to jump, then spear, rince & repeat. Works alot but fails vs the better players.

I only pick Scorp for the vortex, if he didn't have it, I would'nt pick him.

 

[ELC]

Formerly, I usually start off a punish with a vortex going for one overhead iteration and one low iteration followed by a tick-throw. At long-range, I bait jumps with demon fire and punish jumps with a back-dash buffered spear.

Currently, I plan on keeping vortex punish (or a variation) as a way to test the waters, but I also intend to implement more BnBs as well.

 

[J Sleezy]

Bait and punish, then vortex if my opponent is at about 60% and I have life lead. I like playing it safe but with Scorpio thats not such an easy task lol.