Here's how you balance Reptile.

[THTB]

Okay, for those trying to balance out Reptile, here's the perfect way to do it.



-Remove Invisible Forceball: This one is a given. No explanation necessary.

-Allow opponents to techroll near immediately after being hit with elbow: This one solves 2 problems in one...Reptile building meter and messing with wakeup for hitting you, and being able to punish you with elbow, putting himself in the corner, and then dashing to get out. Of course, this change makes Sub vs Reptile a little bit more difficult, since this change makes using elbow on a cornered Sub not even remotely worth it. But it does fix a problem without adding on layers upon layers of other problems.

-Add recovery frames to elbow on block: SYKE NAH! Really, you guys can't react to 21 frames of blockstun? Watch Tom Brady vs Arturo at EVO. WATCH IT. No really, watch it. Then come back to me and go "Add recovery frames". I will proceed to laugh if you do. But seriously, 21 frames of blockstun combined with 36 recovery frames. IF YOU CAN'T REACT WITH A JAB, STOP PLAYING FIGHTING GAMES.

-Slow down elbow, but speed up lows and dash speed: LOL. No. Another SYKE NAH! Why? Think about it like this...how would you feel if Ryu in SSFIV could cancel his dash into any of his crouching attacks and sped up his dash? Stupid, right? Basically, that's what you do here. Reptile is VERY footsies oriented. He dashes slowly for a reason...d4/f2 xx acid hand. His meter game is REALLY strong...give him a 6f d1 and see how annoying 321, d1 would be.

Add armor to elbow: Okay, I need to stop trolling...

Give back his damage: Okay, for real I'm done trolling...

-No other changes: Yeah, I'm being serious...no trolling. Really, Reptile is fixed after the two actual changes. You have to fundamentally change him in order to make him any more "balanced" and that's something you really don't wanna do in a fighting game. Change those two things, and he's relatively the same, with less "cheese", as some of you want to put it.

 

[Lyuben]

I can't tell if you support the change to recovery frames and support slow down elbow. What is this lol no and syke nah mean? You mean its an obvious change or a bad change? I am confused.

 

[Gamin_Guru]

I can't tell if you support the change to recovery frames and support slow down elbow. What is this lol no and syke nah mean? You mean its an obvious change or a bad change? I am confused.

It's a TRAP!!!

 

[SZSR]

I can't tell if you support the change to recovery frames and support slow down elbow. What is this lol no and syke nah mean? You mean its an obvious change or a bad change? I am confused.

Have you never heard of the word Syke? It's used as a means to explicitly convey sarcasm to a third party.:7up: Lol, I don't know.

It would be pretty good to add that instant techroll so I could get out of a Reptile elbow dashing the crap out of me.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

You know there will be another thread like this next week right lol

 

[THTB]

I can't tell if you support the change to recovery frames and support slow down elbow. What is this lol no and syke nah mean? You mean its an obvious change or a bad change? I am confused.

No, I don't. That's why I wrote out explanations on the things that are involved in those particular changes. Elbow is -15 on block, and the blockstun is 21 frames. This is PLENTY of time for about every character in the game to punish him with at least a jab combo. And providing compensations for a slower startup on elbow causes other problems and just makes a mess...if anything the compensations I see people suggesting would make him even better than if you were to just leave things as is.

Syke Nah shows sarcasm in what I just said.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Okay, for those trying to balance out Reptile, here's the perfect way to do it.



-Remove Invisible Forceball: This one is a given. No explanation necessary.

-Allow opponents to techroll near immediately after being hit with elbow: This one solves 2 problems in one...Reptile building meter and messing with wakeup for hitting you, and being able to punish you with elbow, putting himself in the corner, and then dashing to get out. Of course, this change makes Sub vs Reptile a little bit more difficult, since this change makes using elbow on a cornered Sub not even remotely worth it. But it does fix a problem without adding on layers upon layers of other problems.

-Add recovery frames to elbow on block: SYKE NAH! Really, you guys can't react to 21 frames of blockstun? Watch Tom Brady vs Arturo at EVO. WATCH IT. No really, watch it. Then come back to me and go "Add recovery frames". I will proceed to laugh if you do. But seriously, 21 frames of blockstun combined with 36 recovery frames. IF YOU CAN'T REACT WITH A JAB, STOP PLAYING FIGHTING GAMES.

-Slow down elbow, but speed up lows and dash speed: LOL. No. Another SYKE NAH! Why? Think about it like this...how would you feel if Ryu in SSFIV could cancel his dash into any of his crouching attacks and sped up his dash? Stupid, right? Basically, that's what you do here. Reptile is VERY footsies oriented. He dashes slowly for a reason...d4/f2 xx acid hand. His meter game is REALLY strong...give him a 6f d1 and see how annoying 321, d1 would be.

Add armor to elbow: Okay, I need to stop trolling...

Give back his damage: Okay, for real I'm done trolling...

-No other changes: Yeah, I'm being serious...no trolling. Really, Reptile is fixed after the two actual changes. You have to fundamentally change him in order to make him any more "balanced" and that's something you really don't wanna do in a fighting game. Change those two things, and he's relatively the same, with less "cheese", as some of you want to put it.

Take away the forceball glitch and let the opponent roll tech right after elbow dash is fine. Reptile should be able to elbow dash out of the corner. Just mt opinion. Good stuff though.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Aside from the tech roll and the forceball glitch thtb is just trolling

 

[RapZiLLa54]

I'm with ya man just every week someone comes into this forum not caring to read any of the threads already in place and posts up "nerf his dash I CAN'T PUNISH IT!!!!!!". So regardless of the two threads we have already and the others either buried on this forum or deleted, it shall return!

 

[BlueLightningTN]

-Allow opponents to techroll near immediately after being hit with elbow: This one solves 2 problems in one...Reptile building meter and messing with wakeup for hitting you, and being able to punish you with elbow, putting himself in the corner, and then dashing to get out. Of course, this change makes Sub vs Reptile a little bit more difficult, since this change makes using elbow on a cornered Sub not even remotely worth it. But it does fix a problem without adding on layers upon layers of other problems.

Here are the problems with that:

1) Even if you techroll, I can dash past you while ya roll, and still achieve the issue of making you guess 50/50 as to which way you should put in your wakeup inputs. The dash is just that fast.
2) I still get to build the same meter off the dash spam.

I support the one second cooldown on Elbow Dash after you use it, although your idea would work if the Elbow Dash hit opponents farther.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I really think that a thread should be made, if not already made, that details every characters best way to punish the dash. Im pretty sure every character can punish it with a combo. Save maybe kratos. maybe then we wont have two threads on top threads saying what nerfhammer reptile needs to be smacked with.

 

[sLeeK]

Here's a thought leave reptile alone and worry about cyrax? Lay off the reptilian if you think about it the three dash mix up is just like KLs low hat mix up? Stop crying about dash spam/meter building and deal with it. If your a good enough reptile you should have no problem with this(I know I don't). This reply is not directed towards thtb or the other guywho made the balance thread I am just saying this in general.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I don't understand why elbow dash receives so much hate, you can punish it, and it isn't utterly dominant online like Raiden's instant teleport shenanigans. I'm not going to rotate 334 (insert string upon 4 landing or teleport on block), untechable throws and sweeps.

If there's one character that I fucking loathe, it's Raiden with that crap. Maximum bullshit. Worst thing is, these Raiden players think they're legitimately good.

 

[Massive Kano]

IF YOU CAN'T REACT WITH A JAB, STOP PLAYING FIGHTING GAMES.

A million and one people were trying to get the word out that quick low pokes punished Kano's upball, even online. It didn't work and NRS in their infinite wisdom delivered the truly bullshit nerf of increased recovery AND startup. The WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFs echoed across the land, but the damage was done.

So advice to Reptile fanatics from one who's been there: Nothing is going to save your current dash. Nothing. You can stick to your guns with increasingly exasperated calls to just jab punish or whatever, "going down with the ship" so to speak, or you can do the smart thing and start bombarding NRS with suggestions for substantial but reasonable nerfs in the hopes that it will avert a complete kneejerk overkill reaction like former S-tier Kano got.

The choice is yours.

 

[Gamin_Guru]

Still dont really understand the frames jargon, but if Elbow Dash is -15 on block and block stun is +21, then does that mean we have room for a 6 frame attack ? How many frames are throws or do they vary from character to character ?

 

[Levaranoia]

Okay, for those trying to balance out Reptile, here's the perfect way to do it.



-Remove Invisible Forceball: This one is a given. No explanation necessary.

-Allow opponents to techroll near immediately after being hit with elbow: This one solves 2 problems in one...Reptile building meter and messing with wakeup for hitting you, and being able to punish you with elbow, putting himself in the corner, and then dashing to get out. Of course, this change makes Sub vs Reptile a little bit more difficult, since this change makes using elbow on a cornered Sub not even remotely worth it. But it does fix a problem without adding on layers upon layers of other problems.

-Add recovery frames to elbow on block: SYKE NAH! Really, you guys can't react to 21 frames of blockstun? Watch Tom Brady vs Arturo at EVO. WATCH IT. No really, watch it. Then come back to me and go "Add recovery frames". I will proceed to laugh if you do. But seriously, 21 frames of blockstun combined with 36 recovery frames. IF YOU CAN'T REACT WITH A JAB, STOP PLAYING FIGHTING GAMES.

-Slow down elbow, but speed up lows and dash speed: LOL. No. Another SYKE NAH! Why? Think about it like this...how would you feel if Ryu in SSFIV could cancel his dash into any of his crouching attacks and sped up his dash? Stupid, right? Basically, that's what you do here. Reptile is VERY footsies oriented. He dashes slowly for a reason...d4/f2 xx acid hand. His meter game is REALLY strong...give him a 6f d1 and see how annoying 321, d1 would be.

Add armor to elbow: Okay, I need to stop trolling...

Give back his damage: Okay, for real I'm done trolling...

-No other changes: Yeah, I'm being serious...no trolling. Really, Reptile is fixed after the two actual changes. You have to fundamentally change him in order to make him any more "balanced" and that's something you really don't wanna do in a fighting game. Change those two things, and he's relatively the same, with less "cheese", as some of you want to put it.

This is the truth. REPTILE is fine the way he is. I only ever hear scrubby players complaining about elbow dash. What I really wanna know is all of the people complaining about reptile's elbow dash, what character do you main?

 

[Levaranoia]

A million and one people were trying to get the word out that quick low pokes punished Kano's upball, even online. It didn't work and NRS in their infinite wisdom delivered the truly bullshit nerf of increased recovery AND startup. The WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFs echoed across the land, but the damage was done.

So advice to Reptile fanatics from one who's been there: Nothing is going to save your current dash. Nothing. You can stick to your guns with increasingly exasperated calls to just jab punish or whatever, "going down with the ship" so to speak, or you can do the smart thing and start bombarding NRS with suggestions for substantial but reasonable nerfs in the hopes that it will avert a complete kneejerk overkill reaction like former S-tier Kano got.

The choice is yours.

No kano's upball was pure bullshit. You could literally do 2 of them in a row next to a person with no way of being punished.

 

[colt]

HIs forceballs no longer pops up.
Elbow no longer has collision or a follow up attack in it and is just used for moving now.

Think that fixes him?? no???

 

[PND OmegaK]

All this balance talk is giving me ereptile dysfunction.

 

[getcaged]

yeah youre all idiots and reptile d-riders if you think that his elbow dash isnt op its literally the least punishable move ive ever seen and online, how can you say its worse than raidens teleport? raidens teleport doesnt do 12 percent everytime

 

[PND OmegaK]

yeah youre all idiots and reptile d-riders if you think that his elbow dash isnt op its literally the least punishable move ive ever seen and online, how can you say its worse than raidens teleport? raidens teleport doesnt do 12 percent everytime

They didn't design the game mechanics around online play.

 

[Levaranoia]

yeah youre all idiots and reptile d-riders if you think that his elbow dash isnt op its literally the least punishable move ive ever seen and online, how can you say its worse than raidens teleport? raidens teleport doesnt do 12 percent everytime

Actually if you are blocking when he's teleporting then raiden is at the advantage. So that could lead to a throw or whatever mixup that raiden wants to do. So yeah teleport is worse cuz atleast if u block reptile's dash it doesn't put you at disadvantage. Leave this convo to the big boys.

 

[The_Riddler]

Here's a thought leave reptile alone and worry about cyrax? Lay off the reptilian if you think about it the three dash mix up is just like KLs low hat mix up? Stop crying about dash spam/meter building and deal with it. If your a good enough reptile you should have no problem with this(I know I don't). This reply is not directed towards thtb or the other guywho made the balance thread I am just saying this in general.

I'm so confused. How is the 3-dash the same as Kung Lao's low hat mix-up? That just doesn't even make any sense to me.

And why exactly did you say "If your a good enough reptile you should have no problem with this (I know I don't)"? What does you being a good Reptile have to do with other people dealing with Reptile multi-dashing on the opponents wake-up?

 

[The_Riddler]

HIs forceballs no longer pops up.
Elbow no longer has collision or a follow up attack in it and is just used for moving now.

Think that fixes him?? no???

lmao

 

[The_Riddler]

Still dont really understand the frames jargon, but if Elbow Dash is -15 on block and block stun is +21, then does that mean we have room for a 6 frame attack ? How many frames are throws or do they vary from character to character ?

Elbow Dash causes you (the person who blocked the elbow dash) to wait 21 frames (i.e. 21 frames of block stun). Meanwhile, the Reptile is vulnerable for 36 frames (i.e. 36 recovery frames). And 36 - 21 = 15 (i.e. Elbow Dash is -15 on block). You have 15 frames to punish.

Throws are 10 frames for every character.