Here's how you balance Reptile.

[Raiman]

I don't think Sub needs to be buffed or nerfed. He's fine. I don't think Raiden needs to be touched, I don't think Cage needs to be touched, hell, aside from the reset stuff, Cyrax is perfectly fine. I've even said you don't even have to touch Kung Lao's spin or low hat to fix him, and those two things are some of the most whined about shit on this site.

Again, a lot of you guys for nerfing shit don't even play close to high level. So a lot of you DON'T 100% understand what you are asking for with nerfs and shit. You guys just see "I hate it...OP!" I'm sick of it. Go the fuck back to SFIV.

So what 95% of people aren't competitive players, we still would like to have a chance at winning every now and then, but people like you shit on everyone who plays casually, and think our opinion doesn't matter. your not as good as me therefore you don't know anything. i've never played one fighting game before mk, the only reason i play this fighting game is because its better than all the others and the only one that is fun to me. i never played gay ass street fighter so stop saying go back to it. you sound like an immature close minded little girl. you reptile players are more closeminded than any kung lao raiden or kano player

 

[Lyuben]

Well you did make this thread to mock those who wanted a nerf. You are surprised when they defend their ideas?

Take a chill pill as well.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Damn... so much hate being thrown around here. NRS has done a great job balancing this game as its been said to be the most balanced fighter at EVO just look at our top 8.

Next patch should just address the random glitches ie blocked EX ffball and leave the fighters alone.

 

[CitizenSnips]

The only reasonable nerf to his elbow dash imo is to remove the meter gain he gets from doing it without hitting anything.

The recovery times are fine. At EVO I pretty much got punished on a blocked elbow dash every time. Not to say I was throwing it out there blindly, some people are very good at baiting it. I can see maybe a damage nerf to it (11% down to 8% I think would be ok) but to make it come out slower or reduce it's speed would hurt his combos badly and also hurt his pressuring a lot.

Online it can be an issue, but then again there is a ton of stuff that online makes an issue. Raiden's teleport, breaking grabs, Kung Lao as a whole and such online is sometimes too unbearable to fight against. But that does not mean they need to be fixed.

 

[THTB]

we still would like to have a chance at winning every now and then

This is...wow. You want a chance at winning every now and then? Either get better, or just stick to playing your friends. I don't even have a problem with casual players...because surprise, surprise, I was at one point a casual player (And technically still am for whatever games I play not MK9). I have a problem with a casual player, who likely will stick to just playing online where shit doesn't even matter balance-wise there, suggesting balance changes because they "want to win every now and then". Newsflash, balance changes won't make you win anymore than you already are...you just think they will.

But yeah, if there was something legitimately wrong about Reptile that needed to be fixed, best believe I'll be one of those people that will give suggestions and listen to others, like I have done. I love Reptile, and he's my favorite character in MK period, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna suggest buffing or nerfing stuff for ANY character if it doesn't really need to be. Hell, Mileena is a terrible matchup for Reptile, and I would never suggest buffing Reptile or nerfing Mileena in any way to change that matchup unless the overall effect was for the better of the entire game. There's just legitimately not a big problem with Reptile aside from the forceball glitch and maybe the oki game he has after landing an elbow (Which I suggested a nerf for that I wouldn't have any issues towards and would fix an issue without destroying a lot of other things). But yeah, I'm close-minded for sure.

Lyuben, my OP had a bit of trolling in it, and was a bit of a mock, but it was serious at the same time.

Snips, those two nerfs together would be fine as well. Hell, throw on the techroll nerf, and you won't see me complaining about it at all.

 

[salvificblood]

Reptile's dash really doesn't need to be nerfed. It's annoying as hell to deal with, but so are a lot of things in this game; Sub-Zero's ice clone is incredibly annoying for a lot of the cast but the dash and the ice clone are not overpowered or in need of a nerf. I must admit, when i first saw Chri G's reptile, I thought, man that's stupid but it takes a lot of work to play Reptile at that level and it's Reptile's primary mobility tool, you have to seriously think about what it does to his footsies, as THTB has pointed out, if you start adding extra time to the cooldown and whatnot. It would make Reptile very clunky and quite easy to read and contain, in my opinion. Right now he's a well-balanced character because you can cut off a lot of his options just by standing in his way. I honestly think if people work through some of these matchups, they won't feel as intimidated by them as they do now.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

....and leave ALMOST ALL the fighters alone.

Fixed that for ya, *cough* Quan Chi *cough*

 

[shoshinsha]

Online it can be an issue, but then again there is a ton of stuff that online makes an issue. Raiden's teleport, breaking grabs, Kung Lao as a whole and such online is sometimes too unbearable to fight against. But that does not mean they need to be fixed.

This is in no way directed at you, personally, but I wanted to take the time after reading this to point out that I really find this perspective (which is quite popular) a bit offensive. The online player base of this game is not full of second-class citizens and does not deserve to be treated as such. In fact, the online base is likely quite a bit larger than the offline player base, which means if something is causing problems for people online, it's actually hurting more people than if it were only an offline problem.

There are plenty of players out there, both those who are casual by choice and those who would like to be more serious but are forced to be casual by circumstance (location, age, employment, etc.), and they all deserve an equally good playing experience. I'll probably catch flak for this, but in my personal opinion, nobody--not anyone in this forum, not any casual or more serious player, not even Perfect Legend or Justin Wong or Chris G or Tom Brady himself--has the right to tell another player that his or her gaming experience isn't as important simply because he or she doesn't play the game every day or can't make it to a tournament scene or whatever. We all paid (roughly) the same price for the game, so why should one person get to say, "I have no problem with [whatever], so the thousands of online players who find it frustrating every day should just shut their mouths"?

I'm an old-school player who grew up in the arcades all through the 90's. I remember when we got the first X-Men: Children of the Atom cabinet back in... '94? And I even recall being confused about why the boss characters were suddenly playable one day on our SF2 cabinet. So in that context, I understand the importance of offline play. But things change and evolve. Online IS an important contingent of any game, and dismissing it is just showing that you're not progressing with the times. It's like older people who complain that everyone wants to send them things through email when we have a perfectly good postal system.

A little tip for people out there who think this way: if you ever find yourself thinking, "geez, I could swear everybody's crazy but me," that should be a warning to check your perception of things.

Sorry, Snips, totally not singling you out, you just reminded me of something I'd been wanting to say for a while. Cheers.

 

[shoshinsha]

Reptile's dash really doesn't need to be nerfed. It's annoying as hell to deal with, but so are a lot of things in this game; Sub-Zero's ice clone is incredibly annoying for a lot of the cast but the dash and the ice clone are not overpowered or in need of a nerf. I must admit, when i first saw Chri G's reptile, I thought, man that's stupid but it takes a lot of work to play Reptile at that level and it's Reptile's primary mobility tool, you have to seriously think about what it does to his footsies, as THTB has pointed out, if you start adding extra time to the cooldown and whatnot. It would make Reptile very clunky and quite easy to read and contain, in my opinion. Right now he's a well-balanced character because you can cut off a lot of his options just by standing in his way. I honestly think if people work through some of these matchups, they won't feel as intimidated by them as they do now.

I agree that the cooldown would create more problems than it would fix, but I haven't yet seen an argument about giving it a block-recoil animation that would cause real problems. The only thing I can think of that it would do is make Reptile players have to think more before throwing it out, since it would go from "might be punished if my opponent is on-point" to "probably gonna get hurt if I don't put thought into this."

 

[GNG Iniquity]

The online player base of this game is not full of second-class citizens and does not deserve to be treated as such. In fact, the online base is likely quite a bit larger than the offline player base, which means if something is causing problems for people online, it's actually hurting more people than if it were only an offline problem.

Stop taking online seriously. It's terrible. The problem is online, not the move, I can't do half the crap online that I can do offline; why is this you ask? The netcode is garbage. NRS goofed up with the netcode. You'll drop combos, you'll get input delay, you'll see lag spikes and your games will desync. This is the fault of a piss poor netcode, not elbow dash, Kano's up ball and Raiden's teleport; this game DOES not perform well online.

Play in TYM rooms, we all understand this, and won't flaunt out our e-peens because we realize that online sucks fat ass. Play it locally if you can, I'm trying to find local players, still. It's 100x better offline.

 

[Tom Brady]

reptile is fine as is. he does not need to be touched.

 

[CitizenSnips]

Sorry, Snips, totally not singling you out, you just reminded me of something I'd been wanting to say for a while. Cheers.

Trust me, my time spent playig MK so far has been like 99% online. I don't have a car and I am unaware of my local scene if there is any. That said, like InquityDM just posted, the problem is online, not the move itself. I agree that the online community deserves respect because they as consumers drive NRS to want to produce more games, but in terms of balancing issues it's hard to justify something purely off online. If the online had better servers, there would be a ton of things that seem like they need to be fixed would all of a sudden become bareable.

I'm not trying to say the online community isn't worth mentioning, but when it comes to balancing things, specifically elbow dash, you have to be careful of whether or not the balancing will hurt the offline scene as well.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I'm tired of people that are just garbage at the game complaining about shit. THTB makes total sense with everything he's posted. I don't see how people are still arguing about what needs to be changed on reptile. All you guys bitching need to learn how to play the game. I bet more than half of you only play online. I'm not trying to be a dick but people that consistently play against good competition (offline) and understand the game are more credible.

Seriously, reptiles dash (at even moderate lvls of play) is unsafe. Stop comparing it to other moves in the game because nothing is similar to it. His dash makes up for mobility and no fast normals. When it gets block (by GOOD players) it gets punished badly. Reptile has to risk eating a full combo instead of just using d1 to stop pressure, that's just an example. You guys complaining are going to lose to anyone that plays their character well, I don't care who they're using. With the mentality I see here it's hard to think otherwise.

 

[Cburnham81]

This is in no way directed at you, personally, but I wanted to take the time after reading this to point out that I really find this perspective (which is quite popular) a bit offensive. The online player base of this game is not full of second-class citizens and does not deserve to be treated as such. In fact, the online base is likely quite a bit larger than the offline player base, which means if something is causing problems for people online, it's actually hurting more people than if it were only an offline problem.

There are plenty of players out there, both those who are casual by choice and those who would like to be more serious but are forced to be casual by circumstance (location, age, employment, etc.), and they all deserve an equally good playing experience. I'll probably catch flak for this, but in my personal opinion, nobody--not anyone in this forum, not any casual or more serious player, not even Perfect Legend or Justin Wong or Chris G or Tom Brady himself--has the right to tell another player that his or her gaming experience isn't as important simply because he or she doesn't play the game every day or can't make it to a tournament scene or whatever. We all paid (roughly) the same price for the game, so why should one person get to say, "I have no problem with [whatever], so the thousands of online players who find it frustrating every day should just shut their mouths"?

I'm an old-school player who grew up in the arcades all through the 90's. I remember when we got the first X-Men: Children of the Atom cabinet back in... '94? And I even recall being confused about why the boss characters were suddenly playable one day on our SF2 cabinet. So in that context, I understand the importance of offline play. But things change and evolve. Online IS an important contingent of any game, and dismissing it is just showing that you're not progressing with the times. It's like older people who complain that everyone wants to send them things through email when we have a perfectly good postal system.

A little tip for people out there who think this way: if you ever find yourself thinking, "geez, I could swear everybody's crazy but me," that should be a warning to check your perception of things.

Sorry, Snips, totally not singling you out, you just reminded me of something I'd been wanting to say for a while. Cheers.

Listen the bottom line is the online is so bad in this game that making changes or patches because of how a certain move plays out online is ABSURD! In any other game that has a decent netcode...I would might understand your reasoning a little bit more. But the game's netcode is so awful that you can not adjust elements of the game because of lag. That would make the offline elements of the game broken or overpowered or underpowered.... who knows because you adjusted the core ingredients of the game to help people playing with lag. You cant do that... and I promise you the developers at NRS know this and will not adjust anything in this game to cater to online lag.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

HaHaHa. Damn cheap ass Reptile players getting all angry because their OP elbow dash might be nerfed. These same people cry about Sub Zero not needing a buff and lynch Cyrax at sight. Is it a coincidence? Plain and simple, Sub needs a buff, Reptile needs a nerf, and Cyrax needs to be removed from the game ASAP.

 

[Cburnham81]

reptile is fine as is. he does not need to be touched.

Someone should blow this post up and post it on a banner on the front page of the Reptile forum. eptile:

 

[Levaranoia]

Someone should blow this post up and post it on a banner on the front page of the Reptile forum. eptile:

agreed

 

[Euphoric]

So what 95% of people aren't competitive players, we still would like to have a chance at winning every now and then, but people like you shit on everyone who plays casually, and think our opinion doesn't matter. your not as good as me therefore you don't know anything. i've never played one fighting game before mk, the only reason i play this fighting game is because its better than all the others and the only one that is fun to me. i never played gay ass street fighter so stop saying go back to it. you sound like an immature close minded little girl. you reptile players are more closeminded than any kung lao raiden or kano player

Haha than you're asking for fucking handicaps because you can't be bother to learn or how to react. And you're most likely taking online as an example to argue 'balance issues'. No one gives a flying fuck if you can't win when things are fine, get better. Developers and games need to stop fucking spoon feeding their playerbase because everyone now days is to casual or retarded to think or figure shit out on their own. And this goes beyond FGs.

I come from a competitive Gears of War back ground, and these are the type of people that exactly fucked up the competitive play transition from Gears 1 to Gears 2, because stupid people couldn't adjusted to the Shotgun oriented gameplay and asked for stupid nerfs and other dumb gimmicks that assist them so they can get better. I may not know much about MK as THTB, but I know as much as him and more about the Gears franchise and it's competitive environment, and I saw the same shit happening in it's sequels when new people started playing and didn't know how to play, and the same thing is happening to MK and I really don't want it to see it go down that road. If people who know their shit say, than let it be.

STFU learn and play the game. Lol.

 

[shoshinsha]

Seriously, reptiles dash (at even moderate lvls of play) is unsafe. Stop comparing it to other moves in the game because nothing is similar to it. His dash makes up for mobility and no fast normals. When it gets block (by GOOD players) it gets punished badly. Reptile has to risk eating a full combo instead of just using d1 to stop pressure, that's just an example. You guys complaining are going to lose to anyone that plays their character well, I don't care who they're using. With the mentality I see here it's hard to think otherwise.

If it's already easily punished by full combo by decent players, then what harm would it be to give it a recoil animation on block?

Listen the bottom line is the online is so bad in this game that making changes or patches because of how a certain move plays out online is ABSURD! In any other game that has a decent netcode...I would might understand your reasoning a little bit more. But the game's netcode is so awful that you can not adjust elements of the game because of lag. That would make the offline elements of the game broken or overpowered or underpowered.... who knows because you adjusted the core ingredients of the game to help people playing with lag. You cant do that... and I promise you the developers at NRS know this and will not adjust anything in this game to cater to online lag.

I agree with you that online sucks in this game and was not trying to indicate that it should be a major component of game balance. What I was targeting is folks who take the attitude that online players know nothing, deserve no credit, input, or consideration regarding the game, and that things should only be balanced around the highest level of tournament play. That's an unrealistic, out-of-touch, elitist attitude that does nothing but hurt the game.

 

[Massive Kano]

reptile is fine as is. he does not need to be touched.

Neither does SZ.

 

[Euphoric]

Neither does SZ.

Lol.

Armor on slide isn't that big of a 'buff' or deal to Sub, IMO. Seeing as how several characters have armor so they can absorb one hit, Sub has none, LMFAO. Compared to his other tools, it isn't that big of a buff. Look at his specials, Lol.

You just seem salty, especially for Tom, seeing as how you created a lame thread.

This is my logical perception of the topic, others might know better, and I might be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt.

But I'm right about people assuming shit about Tom, Lol.

 

[sLeeK]

Haha than you're asking for fucking handicaps because you can't be bother to learn or how to react. And you're most likely taking online as an example to argue 'balance issues'. No one gives a flying fuck if you can't win when things are fine, get better. Developers and games need to stop fucking spoon feeding their playerbase because everyone now days is to casual or retarded to think or figure shit out on their own. And this goes beyond FGs.

I come from a competitive Gears of War back ground, and these are the type of people that exactly fucked up the competitive play transition from Gears 1 to Gears 2, because stupid people couldn't adjusted to the Shotgun oriented gameplay and asked for stupid nerfs and other dumb gimmicks that assist them so they can get better. I may not know much about MK as THTB, but I know as much as him and more about the Gears franchise and it's competitive environment, and I saw the same shit happening in it's sequels when new people started playing and didn't know how to play, and the same thing is happening to MK and I really don't want it to see it go down that road. If people who know their shit say, than let it be.

STFU learn and play the game. Lol.

Words of wisdom ^ If you wrote a book I would read it

 

[Massive Kano]

Lol.

Armor on slide isn't that big of a 'buff' or deal to Sub, IMO. Seeing as how several characters have armor so they can absorb one hit, Sub has none, LMFAO. Compared to his other tools, it isn't that big of a buff. Look at his specials, Lol.

You just seem salty, especially for Tom, seeing as how you created a lame thread.

This is my logical perception of the topic, others might know better, and I might be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt.

But I'm right about people assuming shit about Tom, Lol.

Point completely missed. NRS both beefs up and tones down characters who don't need it, regardless of what the consensus here has to say about it. It sometimes seems like "online scrubs uber alles" because NRS loves their disposable income. The only remotely productive way of coping is to try to steer the process with suggestions instead of vainly hoping that railing against it on a message board will somehow put a stop to it

 

[THTB]

This is in no way directed at you, personally, but I wanted to take the time after reading this to point out that I really find this perspective (which is quite popular) a bit offensive. The online player base of this game is not full of second-class citizens and does not deserve to be treated as such. In fact, the online base is likely quite a bit larger than the offline player base, which means if something is causing problems for people online, it's actually hurting more people than if it were only an offline problem.

There are plenty of players out there, both those who are casual by choice and those who would like to be more serious but are forced to be casual by circumstance (location, age, employment, etc.), and they all deserve an equally good playing experience. I'll probably catch flak for this, but in my personal opinion, nobody--not anyone in this forum, not any casual or more serious player, not even Perfect Legend or Justin Wong or Chris G or Tom Brady himself--has the right to tell another player that his or her gaming experience isn't as important simply because he or she doesn't play the game every day or can't make it to a tournament scene or whatever. We all paid (roughly) the same price for the game, so why should one person get to say, "I have no problem with [whatever], so the thousands of online players who find it frustrating every day should just shut their mouths"?

I'm an old-school player who grew up in the arcades all through the 90's. I remember when we got the first X-Men: Children of the Atom cabinet back in... '94? And I even recall being confused about why the boss characters were suddenly playable one day on our SF2 cabinet. So in that context, I understand the importance of offline play. But things change and evolve. Online IS an important contingent of any game, and dismissing it is just showing that you're not progressing with the times. It's like older people who complain that everyone wants to send them things through email when we have a perfectly good postal system.

A little tip for people out there who think this way: if you ever find yourself thinking, "geez, I could swear everybody's crazy but me," that should be a warning to check your perception of things.

Sorry, Snips, totally not singling you out, you just reminded me of something I'd been wanting to say for a while. Cheers.

Unfortunately MK9's online is terrible...and the game changes so much simply due to input delay and inconsistency in latency causing spikes. This throws off a player's ability to react properly immensely, and as such, things such as online-only frame traps, being safe because you can't react in time to punish online, come into play 100%. And this applies for ANY online fighting game not utilizing GGPO. When you're playing offline, these problems of punishment cease to exist because your reactions are properly displayed. Online interferes with a player's ability to play too much to try and do balancing around it. I don't get why you would find the perspective of "online is the problem, not the move itself" offensive, because that is what is the problem. It's not some complex web of reasonings...it's really simple.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Then I think it's safe to say this game is useless and a waste of money and time unless you have an offline "scene" where all the cool kids hangout and play. Such a shame........:yeradick: