"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Qwark28]

also, about rlg, it is +5 or so fullscreen, I use it quite often when I know they are forced to block it because it gives me a free gunshot check which I cash in into a dash/throw another one.

 

[Gilbagz]

Gunshot destroys staff zoning when you have a decent lead. It will catch the pound during startup, he only ducks right before the pound is out, which is approx 15f in if I had to guess.

You actually trade with pound if you block one and reversal gunshot since he has slight travel time, I calculate it like this when it happens

21-9=12

16-12= 4

4f of travel time means that you should be able to get a gunshot reversal and judging by his spark, it does have a decent amount of travel time.

When you have a very good lifelead you can counter all of his zoning low rlg, you will catch him during recovery, on block for chip and sometimes for a gunshot combo, so he cannot zone you out to regain the lifelead.

When up close he cannot deal with jump ins, he has no AA on par with Aquaman, WW or air throw characters and even those can get jumped on if you're not predictable.

Your damage and wallcarry far exceeds his, his setups are more baiting and his wakeups are good though, in the corner the same stuff applies, touch of death.

You excel up close, he excels in keepaway, except that when you have the lead his keepaway is not as good, yours becomes better and both up-close games remain the same. Teeth, J3 and D2 are excelent defensive tools.

Something extra to think about though is gunshot also has travel time
Over 4f since it cant reversal punish ftd from full screen

 

[Qwark28]

Something extra to think about though is gunshot also has travel time
Over 4f since it cant reversal punish ftd from full screen

Yes, so? You still have to account for recovery and duration.

 

[Fromundaman]

also, about rlg, it is +5 or so fullscreen, I use it quite often when I know they are forced to block it because it gives me a free gunshot check which I cash in into a dash/throw another one.

Do you mean the non-MB version? If so I'm going to have to take advantage of that more.

 

[Qwark28]

Do you mean the non-MB version? If so I'm going to have to take advantage of that more.

yes

 

[rehti]

Lobo D2 beats Joker D2 when spammed at beginning of the game by both players.

 

[Qwark28]

Lobo D2 beats Joker D2 when spammed at beginning of the game by both players.

Maybe online. Offline it trades very rarely and every time it doesn't, Joker's launches while Lobo's whiffs.

 

[rehti]

So Qwark, have you ever played with that possibility? MB RLG after a B3... I see a difference, I mean graphically but do you think something can be done out of it beside a liltte 3% more on the combo?

 

[Qwark28]

Will test, atm sick.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

So Qwark, have you ever played with that possibility? MB RLG after a B3... I see a difference, I mean graphically but do you think something can be done out of it beside a liltte 3% more on the combo?

It's generally not worth it IMO. You're better off saving that meter for resets off MB f3 and setting up OTGs off of MB crowbar. Only time it might be viable is for the kill.

 

[Qwark28]

Just realised what the bar cost is, no way.

 

[rehti]

Yes, but if it can land to a possible 60%, why not? I thought it was your new mentality to trade as much dmg as we can get. Its hard to get in so why not do a 60% while we are in... anyway, 2 meter is indeed a lot and I don't think we will find a way to do anything close to 55%.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I'm pretty sure it caps below 50% with 2 MB RLGs in a combo due to additional juggle scaling. It probably won't even beat the 48% off of ji2 32 xx mb rlg, b3, d2 xx far teeth, ji2 far teeth, 3 xx flower, 32~ xx flower.

 

[Qwark28]

Yes, but if it can land to a possible 60%, why not? I thought it was your new mentality to trade as much dmg as we can get. Its hard to get in so why not do a 60% while we are in... anyway, 2 meter is indeed a lot and I don't think we will find a way to do anything close to 55%.

I would rather get 1 bar 48% than 3 bar 60%

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Pretty much, yeah. Especially with Joker's reset potential. You're better off going for setups and saving meter for MB b/f3s and OTG setups off of MB crowbar

 

[OnlineRon91]

Chattering Teeth is like +25-30 on block.

Fun facts - you can jump over reversal corpse charge after 112.

 

[Gilbagz]

Yes, so? You still have to account for recovery and duration.

Yeah my bad was thinking properly.

Anwyays finally got a chance to test this out properly
I set Joker to reversal gunshot and mashed ground blast.
It did not trade once.

 

[Gilbagz]

*wasnt
Edit button not working

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah my bad was thinking properly.

Anwyays finally got a chance to test this out properly
I set Joker to reversal gunshot and mashed ground blast.
It did not trade once.

Just tested it as well, I guess people couldn't do them back to back perfectly

It seems though that you can dash in between sparks and not be hit.

 

[Gilbagz]

Just tested it as well, I guess people couldn't do them back to back perfectly

It seems though that you can dash in between sparks and not be hit.

yeah you can approach through the zoning, its just really hard to counter zone using the gun
you'll lose out on the chip war easily

 

[Qwark28]

yeah you can approach through the zoning, its just really hard to counter zone using the gun
you'll lose out on the chip war easily

Depends, you're not - when you dash through his stuff, I'm not woried when I have the threat of a faster gunshot that grants a dash

 

[StevoSuprem0]

They streamed some stupid ass UMvC3 Qualifier at the Break this week, then Injustice for Loser's and Grand Finals, but KDZ and I have some casual footage in the very beginning. Mostly me having shit execution, screwing up alot, and getting bodied, but some decent stuff to see sprinkled in. God, I jump way too much... lol. Enjoy. Only til about 6:30... I guess they weren't recording the whole time. Sorry fellas. Better than nothing maybe... haha.
http://www.twitch.tv/8wayrun/b/483171121

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Lol I still dunno what happened in my brain in that third match where I landed j2 21 mb rlg and then FUCKING BACKDASHED... ugh, I remember pressing it, and then being like, WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST DOOOOO!?!?! I was screwing up in the corner alot as well. Getting there though. Playing at the break is helping me adapt to the timing in tournaments a shitload. Next week I might actually play well.

 

[Qwark28]

Just watched, KDZs WW is so new lol.

Main things

Don't jump on any characters with good anti air with J2, forget it exists unless you're crossing them

Dont empty jump, J3 is king and it prevents movement.

Practice nerves or combos

Parry way less, no reason to get 11% while risking your whole lifebar on her vortex, noone is going to do a string straight after dashing with no conditioning, people react to dashes with blockstrings, that's what KDZ was expecting in the beginning.

Use interactibles to your advantage, no need to press the batmobile rockets, he either jumps to avoid being hit, forward dashes or backdashes. Backdash is what you want and a set of teeth + D2 takes care of the dash in and the jump in.

Save meter vs WW, don't almost ever super her, not worth it.

Use more teeth in footsies, a whiffed gunshot is a free dash, 2 of them is right in your face and then you have no teeth to protect, you teeth prevent movement.

Block low after, B2, lasso on block is +15 while she has no overhead past B2

Don't hold gun that long.

Don't use sweep into jump that often, can be woken out of on reaction

33, B1 and B11 are all advantage and have a d12 check into tiara on hit, if they do B1 into 33 or b1 again then do 11 mb RLG.

Learn how to block the OTG and vortex and don't wake up as much.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

It's not really nerves for me anymore, I'm just struggling to adapt to PS3/monitor speed vs. XB360/home tv speed vs online speed, etc. This game is way too variable with that shit and I just can't get used to it... shitty excuse, but it plagues me.
I need to jump less, I know that, I'm working on that and getting better because of it- just need to be more patient in alot of matchups, or at least pressure differently. Just need to get used to the matchups where you can't spam jump because I'm an idiot and jump like crazy way to often and lose alot because of it lol.
He I would pretty much NEVER super with Joker in a tournament match, was more just screwing around with those. I think I did it like 3-4 times in our series and only landed one lol.
The only time I would say parrying in that matchup may be legitimate is when you are only in range of that overhead lasso thing, because WWs tend to exclusively use that in certain ranges and I feel like you can react to it (not that I was doing a great job of that...) so why not grab 11%? Once you show them using it a few times, they'll start making the read and you need to stop or you run the risk of a big punish. It recovers pretty fast though, so at that range they may not be able to punish very well. That's about it though, if that.
I don't know the frame data on her strings at all, but I beat him a few times following a block in the d1 vs d1 race, so I wasn't sure if I could or not and just kept trying.
I definitely need to remember to teeth more in footsie range in a bunch of matchups. My two main sparring partners are a really good Flash and Green Lantern, and if you lay footsie teeth in those matchups you're eating full combos for it with them getting around them with ease, so again, just need to work the matchups better.
Thanks for the feedback though man. I agree with pretty much everything you said and drew many of the same conclusions from reviewing the footage, which makes me happy that I could identify the same problems .