"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Qwark28]

Wait, what's going on? Does The Joker actually have unlisted buffs?

No, its that crowbar was so much better than expected.

 

[laudanum09]

To those testing out what specials you can use from which strings without them being interruptable, no need to reinvent the wheel. I made a thread on it back then. Just look for strings that both RLG and Crowbar can be cancelled to and you got your 50/50
http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-jokers-true-block-strings.37086/

thanks, I knew that was around somewhere

 

[Jack White]

No, its that crowbar was so much better than expected.

Wait, this was stuff that was already there, but people weren't testing? I can't play the game right now since I'm working but what's the lowdown?

1) What did the MB frame advantage buff do?
2) I know the crowbar is safe now, but do you mean it's a midscreen OTG in the sense that you can actually land it on people on the ground or that it forces them to block?

 

[laudanum09]

Wait, what's going on? Does The Joker actually have unlisted buffs?

like Qwark said.

In summation:

-MB crowbar allows for midscreen OTGs i.e. with D2, D3, B1 (stuffs all wakeup specials and supers)
-MB crowbar allows for a crossup j2 (not OTG) midscreen that stuffs wakeups
-MB crowbar in the corner allows for an OTG combo into b3/f3 in corners with transitions
-MB crowbar allows for teeth to be thrown out followed up by an OTG b1, 3 in the corner for an anti-wakeup 'hard to blockable'

From my estimation, you can do the latter three times with two bars since crowbar, teeth, b1, 3, 21 crowbar alone builds 60% of a bar.

Does this sound about right?

 

[Jack White]

like Qwark said.

In summation:

-MB crowbar allows for midscreen OTGs i.e. with D2, D3, B1 (stuffs all wakeup specials and supers)
-MB crowbar allows for a crossup j2 (not OTG) midscreen that stuffs wakeups
-MB crowbar in the corner allows for an OTG combo into b3/f3 in corners with transitions
-MB crowbar allows for teeth to be thrown out followed up by an OTG b1, 3 in the corner for an anti-wakeup 'hard to blockable'

From my estimation, you can do the latter three times with two bars since crowbar, teeth, b1, 3, 21 crowbar alone builds 60% of a bar.

Does this sound about right?

What am I reading? Is this real? Someone should post a video of this asap.

What exactly did this MB crowbar buff do?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I'm gonna start working on a video when I get home if no one else has.

 

[OnlineRon91]

like Qwark said.

In summation:

-MB crowbar allows for midscreen OTGs i.e. with D2, D3, B1 (stuffs all wakeup specials and supers)
-MB crowbar allows for a crossup j2 (not OTG) midscreen that stuffs wakeups
-MB crowbar in the corner allows for an OTG combo into b3/f3 in corners with transitions
-MB crowbar allows for teeth to be thrown out followed up by an OTG b1, 3 in the corner for an anti-wakeup 'hard to blockable'

From my estimation, you can do the latter three times with two bars since crowbar, teeth, b1, 3, 21 crowbar alone builds 60% of a bar.

Does this sound about right?

Add Crowbar and RLG to the midscreen OTGs!
You can do RLG right away or Forward Dash, Crowbar

EDIT: The last bullet point is so dirty. If you decide to do Teeth, b1 xx Crowbar, they have to block Low, then High, then Low lmao

 

[Fromundaman]

like Qwark said.

In summation:

-MB crowbar allows for midscreen OTGs i.e. with D2, D3, B1 (stuffs all wakeup specials and supers)
-MB crowbar allows for a crossup j2 (not OTG) midscreen that stuffs wakeups
-MB crowbar in the corner allows for an OTG combo into b3/f3 in corners with transitions
-MB crowbar allows for teeth to be thrown out followed up by an OTG b1, 3 in the corner for an anti-wakeup 'hard to blockable'

From my estimation, you can do the latter three times with two bars since crowbar, teeth, b1, 3, 21 crowbar alone builds 60% of a bar.

Does this sound about right?

Actually more than that. After the Teeth>B13 OTG in the corner we can do D2>teeth>D1>B1>Teeth>212>Crowbar MB to reset the situation.

 

[jaym7018]

I guess i need to see a video cause im trying this on mmh and his push wake up isnt getting otg'd.

 

[OnlineRon91]

I guess i need to see a video cause im trying this on mmh and his push wake up isnt getting otg'd.

I'll try it with him and let you know. Hopefully it isn't character exclusive.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Yea it works on MMH as well, I guess wait for Stevo to upload the video.

 

[jaym7018]

So midscreen i can mb crowbar dash up and b1 and it will stuff all wake ups? im doing something wrong cause my b1 is whiffing through invincibilty frames and im getting hit.

 

[OnlineRon91]

That means your doing the b1 too slow, you should do b1 while they are still on the floor and "Wakeup Attack" shouldn't even register. You can even dash twice if you practice enough.

To those who found out about d2 midscreen, who did you do this against? Were you next to them when you did crowbar? How many times did you dash? I cant seem to land it on MMH nor Superman, not that it matters too much, I don't see any reason to use it over b1 or Crowbar.

 

[jaym7018]

That means your doing the b1 too slow, you should do b1 while they are still on the floor and "Wakeup Attack" shouldn't even register. You can even dash twice if you practice enough.

Holy shit you can do it after 1 dash. Its much easier after 1 dash

 

[laudanum09]

did it with Lex. one dash. Lex is big so yeah.

d2 might be character/spacing specific. I'd imagine it won't work for everyone because of the time you need to get to the proper spacing, but it for sure works on lex.

also, in the corner, after MB crowbar, teeth, b1 3 I'd imagine theres much more you can do to follow up and go back into crowbar as Fromundaman said. If so maybe we can optimize to get even more bar out of it so if you're like on 1 and half bars to start with you can still rep it 3 times.

 

[laudanum09]

Holy shit you can do it after 1 dash. Its much easier after 1 dash

yes, as Qwark pointed out, if you dash twice, it will not work if they are two dashes away from you. it's a spacing/timing thing.

as far as d2 on Lex, it worked after one dash and a slight pause. maybe one dash and a slight walk forward and immediately d2 ing will work more universally? D2 OTG midscreen seems way better than b1 but depending on how solid that crossup is, you wouldn't even need midscreen OTGs to stuff wakeups.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Why would d2 be better than b1? I see b1/Crowbar as a 50/50 but what would d2 benefit you over b1? I might be missing something xD

 

[laudanum09]

Why would d2 be better than b1? I see b1/Crowbar as a 50/50 but what would d2 benefit you over b1? I might be missing something xD

D2 would lead to more damage, no? I'm not sure about the combo potential off a grounded d2 at that range but I'd think it's more versatile than b1, which can only lead to b1,3 or into a special. I suppose it would be good to get another MB crowbar in. That was my thinking, but maybe I'm wrong about the combo potential.

 

[OnlineRon91]

It's still worth experimenting nonetheless

 

[Qwark28]

Wait, this was stuff that was already there, but people weren't testing? I can't play the game right now since I'm working but what's the lowdown?

1) What did the MB frame advantage buff do?
2) I know the crowbar is safe now, but do you mean it's a midscreen OTG in the sense that you can actually land it on people on the ground or that it forces them to block?

It gave us safejumps, otgs and resets along with pressure

 

[Qwark28]

ok, originally i had abandoned the idea but im about to restart it

basically i had found some very gen like crossups, i say gen and not akuma because i rarely ever get crossed over but gens crossups look alien to me, jumps you can only avoid the mixups of only if you duck and quickly restand and block like an earthshake

today or tomorrow ill re-explore them, they are very character and spacing specifc

 

[AK elitegoomba]

Really though no amount of setups will save joker. What we really need to focus on is MU specific strategies for the neutral game because until we can win there the setups don't mean shit

 

[Zino]

out of some testing it only happens in the corner when a transition is possible, they can't block it. its a legit combo, you just pick them up into a B3.

After some testing, a B1 will never OTG when you only need 1 dash to use it and you do 2

it will otg when your opps 2 dashes away and you do 2 though, just not 1 dash with you doing 2.

EDIT: ITS PROBABLY BLOCKABLE.

With the extra MB F/B3 buffs we can now do teeth combos of up to 48% unclashable.

i was actually just double dashing after close mb crowbar (one dash space) and i can still get the b1 otg. very strict timing though.

 

[laudanum09]

Yeah Qwark28 Joker's jumps always reminded me of Gen's. No other character can cross you up from near point blank range like that. Joker's jump arc with j2 is so shallow and weird that there's bound to be some hitbox specific stuff. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Really though no amount of setups will save joker. What we really need to focus on is MU specific strategies for the neutral game because until we can win there the setups don't mean shit

I was thinking that too, we have a matchup thread just that it hasn't been updated with all the characters. I was thinking of doing a new one and take in the counters you guys have come up with against those matchups.

Starting with the easy stuff like Crowbar and d4 (trait) being the most reliable and useful way to make command throws whiff or not attempting to use your Super against Deathstroke at 3/4 screen or more because he can machinegun through it.