Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[Blind_Ducky]

I still need to play you also Blind Bro! Brad still has my copy of Injustice but I'll probably get it back before the week is over.

Swewwwwweeeeeeet we play soon me happy <3 just let me know when we can play.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Cosmic_Castaway had a good write up a page or two ago, check that out.

It probably got pushed back a bit when everyone decided to go on a 10 page rant about the Superman MU. I'll look for the post and link it.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

So this past weekend i got eliminated in losers semi by GGA pimpimjim. He played hawkgirl at a very high level. I felt like all my reads were on point. I had him scared to mace charge, but I still ended up losing. It was just to hard to establish good pressure and she just seems to wake up for free and go back in the sky with no risk, which resulted in me trying to get her grounded. any tips someone can give me?

Less a writeup and more me just being a dick (GRAYSON).

Please, that matchup is more than doable now. HG has gotten worse due to wakeups and d2s getting buffed. She effectively lost all her guess-four-ways oki and she can't stay up in the air for free anymore. Legit, outside of max flight height, Escrima d2 will hit her. I've played this matchup enough pre- and post-patch to know it's not that bad anymore.

You have access to real midscreen damage while she doesn't. And once you have her in the corner, she pretty much has to wait out your pressure or die because of how bad her reversal options are.

I promise you, just stay on her, make some good reads, and you'll be fine. This matchup has gotten a lot better since Month 1.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[Wasted]

I still can't agree with that.

Wake up Mace Charge is +8 on block and will beat out jump back Escrima J3 from time to time. If she autocorrects and flies away, you're back to square one.

Escrima D2 will hit, but it hits her so late in the animation that it becomes almost pointless. She basically has to sit there, waiting for you to do it.

 

[Dasblackman]

Looking at the new Bane buffs, it pretty much completely changes how we have to approach him, since he takes less damage now with Venom stacks, and has armor on his stuff

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Looking at the new Bane buffs, it pretty much completely changes how we have to approach him, since he takes less damage now with Venom stacks, and has armor on his stuff

I haven't had the chance to play a good bane. He's going to be troublesome.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

I don't really see how it'll change anything. Dude has always had armor. He takes less damage on hit, sure, but same amount of chip, so whatever. I always intend on staying as far away from Bane as possible, so there's no need for me to change my "approach" because I'm never approaching him.

 

[Chongo]

I don't really see how it'll change anything. Dude has always had armor. He takes less damage on hit, sure, but same amount of chip, so whatever. I always intend on staying as far away from Bane as possible, so there's no need for me to change my "approach" because I'm never approaching him.

The only thing that's a confirmed change is that he'll take less damage when he's on venom. Ok, so at most you have to do another combo. You just will have to play smarter, that's all.

We don't know the variables with MB Venom Uppercut (will it be safe, will it be +, will it whiff on certain characters, etc) or how negative f2d3 is going to be, so it's pointless to talk about if they're going to be problems.

 

[ruff321]

Can anyone fill me in on Ares MU? I keep getting blown up by god smack resets

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Watching some of my matchup footage from earlier in the week.
http://www.twitch.tv/nightwingdayzero/b/459032352
@ around 12:50 you can see me hit a b2 at the maximum possible distance. I'm talking "just the tip" kind of distance. I go for a backdash afterwards, and GL's b1 still hits me.

Arturo Sanchez really came through for his character.

 

[14K]

Yeah iv just fought a rush down of Supermans 1 after another, this matchup is a lost hope for praticly 70% of the cast... the sheer fact that everysingle move he does has virtually no hurtbox to speak of is just stupidy at its best... i mean even mediocre Supermans are giving me a run for my money, im not a prodigy NW but im proud to say i put in the work and im a very very good NW... i can only say that if he doesnt get nerfed im surely moving on to another game...

I know this has been discussed here plenty god knows iv even been on that discussion but what do you guys feel? if they dont/wont change anything about Superman will you guys still feel this game is worth playing? cause we know supermans will continue to breeze thru tornaments/Locals alike... KDZ showed that this past TFC... now i dont have anything against KDZ or his usage of superman but the only time he actually struggled was against SonicFox and even then it wasnt that much of a struggle...

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

KDZ is the only Superman that has been doing consistently well since EVO. He is a strong FG player putting in the work with a strong character.

That being said, it was confirmed that Superman will be nerfed a while ago, as far as I am aware. From what I recall, Ed Boon wasn't pleased about about watching f2,3 breath for two hours at EVO.

 

[14K]

KDZ is the only Superman that has been doing consistently well since EVO. He is a strong FG player putting in the work with a strong character.

That being said, it was confirmed that Superman will be nerfed a while ago, as far as I am aware. From what I recall, Ed Boon wasn't pleased about about watching f2,3 breath for two hours at EVO.

Im happy to hear that, i hope the correct changes are put in place, cause the problem is not the Breath part, even tho i think it should be neutral its not just that, its the fact that Superman has so many active frames in everything he does that makes it impossible to fight him its the fact that he excels at zonning better than actual zonners and more stuff, the fact that Superman has barely any hurt boxs in any of his moves... so nerfing F2,3 breathe its not going to cut it... he will steam roll every character in the rooster just because everytime he swings he will win, doesnt matter if you swong first his hitbox will hit you before yours does him, its not even going to trade 90% of the time he will straight up win and combo you for 40% 59 or more in the cornor... so yeah his hurtboxs and hitboxs need to be revamped

EDIT: like i said KDZ is an amazing player im not saying superman i carrying him the wins... but it sure is helping out...

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Im happy to hear that, i hope the correct changes are put in place, cause the problem is not the Breath part, even tho i think it should be neutral its not just that, its the fact that Superman has so many active frames in everything he does that makes it impossible to fight him its the fact that he excels at zonning better than actual zonners and more stuff, the fact that Superman has barely any hurt boxs in any of his moves... so nerfing F2,3 breathe its not going to cut it... he will steam roll every character in the rooster just because everytime he swings he will win, doesnt matter if you swong first his hitbox will hit you before yours does him, its not even going to trade 90% of the time he will straight up win and combo you for 40% 59 or more in the cornor... so yeah his hurtboxs and hitboxs need to be revamped

EDIT: like i said KDZ is an amazing player im not saying superman i carrying him the wins... but it sure is helping out...

I just gave the f2,3 breath example for the sake of it. They're toning him down as a whole. Like fullscreen straight eyebeam into super isn't going to work anymore.

 

[14K]

I just gave the f2,3 breath example for the sake of it. They're toning him down as a whole. Like fullscreen straight eyebeam into super isn't going to work anymore.

yes yes m8 i understood that your where using it as reference but what im saying with the same reference is what is wrong with him, where i think the problem lies... but im happy they are tonning him down cause this game is very fun to play and its very enjoyable to see the more balanced part of the cast duke it out.. but everytime superman comes into the fray i just feel like turning it off and stop watchin and i bet a lot of ppl do the same

 

[AssassiN]

I just gave the f2,3 breath example for the sake of it. They're toning him down as a whole. Like fullscreen straight eyebeam into super isn't going to work anymore.

Where are people getting their information?

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Where are people getting their information?

At Summer Jam, KDZ did ground laser -> super to someone on stream, and Tom Brady said to him, "Enjoy it while you still have it."

That's clear enough to me.

 

[Wasted]

We're still listening to the "testers", who played the beta for only a week?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

KDZ is the only Superman that has been doing consistently well since EVO. He is a strong FG player putting in the work with a strong character.

SoCal hosts 2 of the 3 Superman players in Top 8. They don't travel, but they have both been finishing 1/2 or 1/3 at WNF consistently since then.

Theo and Slayer, between the two of them, have effectively drowned all of the excitement out of Injustice in SoCal. They will get the life lead, they will lame you out, and few people have found an answer to it, even fewer pulling out a win.

 

[14K]

SoCal hosts 2 of the 3 Superman players in Top 8. They don't travel, but they have both been finishing 1/2 or 1/3 at WNF consistently since then.

Theo and Slayer, between the two of them, have effectively drowned all of the excitement out of Injustice in SoCal. They will get the life lead, they will lame you out, and few people have found an answer to it, even fewer pulling out a win.

exacly.. the way superman was made to cater to newbies, they made a character that basicly has an eazy time doing everything, and everything he does he excels at, in a more efficient, basic, and brain dead way than anyother character, Superman Alone steals the life and enjoyment out of this game, regardless of who plays it... KDZ has an amazing superman but regardless of that its still HELLA boring to watch him or any other superman play, atleast for me. I for one feel that if superman was no where near TOP tier this game would be so much more enjoyable to watch and play...

You will still have your BA´s and WW but in my opinion even tho black adam is strong, and packs quite a punch, and WW still has some BS attached to her stuff they struggle against more matchups than superman will ever do...

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

NightwingDayZero

Fair enough. I haven't watched WNF in months so I don't know the scene that well anymore.

 

[Sajam]

NightwingDayZero

Fair enough. I haven't watched WNF in months so I don't know the scene that well anymore.

</3

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Yeah iv just fought a rush down of Supermans 1 after another, this matchup is a lost hope for praticly 70% of the cast... the sheer fact that everysingle move he does has virtually no hurtbox to speak of is just stupidy at its best... i mean even mediocre Supermans are giving me a run for my money, im not a prodigy NW but im proud to say i put in the work and im a very very good NW... i can only say that if he doesnt get nerfed im surely moving on to another game...

I know this has been discussed here plenty god knows iv even been on that discussion but what do you guys feel? if they dont/wont change anything about Superman will you guys still feel this game is worth playing? cause we know supermans will continue to breeze thru tornaments/Locals alike... KDZ showed that this past TFC... now i dont have anything against KDZ or his usage of superman but the only time he actually struggled was against SonicFox and even then it wasnt that much of a struggle...

I'm with you, playing against Superman is some bull even if you win the match up it's just a pain in the nuts and not much fun...especially online where it's drop city. I just want F2 nerfed to hell worse than Scorpion teleport, shorten his hit box on his air attacks, and decrease chip damage on his lasers MB (is it like 5% or something? iono). I don't mind Superman being the best character in the game, but that F2 can go die.

 

[14K]

I'm with you, playing against Superman is some bull even if you win the match up it's just a pain in the nuts and not much fun...especially online where it's drop city. I just want F2 nerfed to hell worse than Scorpion teleport, shorten his hit box on his air attacks, and decrease chip damage on his lasers MB (is it like 5% or something? iono). I don't mind Superman being the best character in the game, but that F2 can go die.

i think the thing here is characters where never ever meant to have hurt/hitboxs like this... let me put some of the worse examples of how active everything superman does is, stuff i experienced while using NW against him:

NW wakeup Staffspin ( probably one of the best wakeups in the game to break armors and moves with leaned back hurtboxs) i play against a superman friend of mine praticly every day multiple times, he did J3 i did a late wakeup staffspin only to see that 90% of the time i see the staff spining in his body but his J3 still wins, note it doesnt trade, it Wins... meaning that i see the staff is hitting his body but there are no hurtboxs there for it to hit so i lose my wakeupframes and get hit.

NW Staff mode B2, long range, kinda slow but sometimes usefull, was trying to get superman into blockstun a while back and used that move, NW arm was already praticly extended meaning the staff was out there, my move came out way before supermans F2,3 yet he wins and i clearly see my staff reach basicly half his body lenght... again the amazing superman frames at work here...

this one is a doozy, did a gamble on a flying grayson to try and predict and air lazer, he decided not to do an air lazer instead the knocked NW flying grayson out of the air with a 1,1 while NW was at the peack of this kick, interesting stuff here

this is just some of the really Pulling hair out of my head moments iv had with him, now this could be blamed on the online lag yada yada yada, but iv seen stuff like this happen offline 2 so, even tho lag might be helping superman do this miraculous things, its not just the lag, its the character

 

[ruff321]

Superman players pisses me off to no end. Pick watchtower/metropolis roof top and you have yourself a rage inducing match.