Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[ruff321]

in ecrima or staff?

escrima of course.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

And for the record, I do think the matchup sucks.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[14K]

Just give NW's Supes F23 and GL's B13.

the problem with Supermans F23 is as simple as a hit box ajustment honestly... cause when he starts the motion his hurtbox leans back a lot... meaning if you try to challenge hit you kind hit a wall... cause theres no hurtbox direcly there for you to hit while with other characters their hitbox goes praticly alongside the string your using... unless your NW or someone with a weapon with some range on it...honestly the only change i would do to superman would be ajusting his hurtbox long side his F23 so it matched the movement, and give icebreath a neutral 0 on block i would leave verything else as it... ( ok maybe the scaling on the DB3 should be ajusted in combos)

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

the problem with Supermans F23 is as simple as a hit box ajustment honestly... cause when he starts the motion his hurtbox leans back a lot... meaning if you try to challenge hit you kind hit a wall... cause theres no hurtbox direcly there for you to hit while with other characters their hitbox goes praticly alongside the string your using... unless your NW or someone with a weapon with some range on it...honestly the only change i would do to superman would be ajusting his hurtbox long side his F23 so it matched the movement, and give icebreath a neutral 0 on block i would leave verything else as it... ( ok maybe the scaling on the DB3 should be ajusted in combos)

This is my biggest beef with Superman.

Do you D1 or 11 after the breathe loop?

 

[TakeAChance]

I will always stick around this community. I Love the NW community, very cool peoples. does anybody think they will buff Escrima?
Sajam
TakeAChance
NightwingDayZero

The rumblings that have come out seem to indicate that they wont be touching Nightwing. Would be nice to get a small escrima buff.

I am starting to want just a movement speed buff more than anything tbh. It takes Nightwing forever to get off the ground.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The rumblings that have come out seem to indicate that they wont be touching Nightwing. Would be nice to get a small escrima buff.

I am starting to want just a movement speed buff more than anything tbh. It takes Nightwing forever to get off the ground.

Wouldn't him simply being able to walk faster than my dead grandpa be a huge Escrima buff?

 

[14K]

This is my biggest beef with Superman.

Do you D1 or 11 after the breathe loop?

i mean depends a lot on the superman your fighting against.... usually i try to see what he does after the loop see what kind of reactions or precautions... most supermans continue the offensive, but that just seems like a brainless superman on the other side of the controller... let me try to explain in a nutshell how i try to control the match up so i dont fall to far out of a neutral 5-5 match up..

First of let me tell you i use A LOT of stance to special switchin on comand i mean ALOT...

usually there is a sweet spot where you can be near superman in staff stance that he doesnt have a lot of options other damn dash back to create space... i usually measure this by doing this string ( 1, D3) if the 1 of that string hits but just barely i mean it almost feels like it aint gonna hit but hits at the very tip of it, thats my sweet spot for NWstaff vs Superman...

at that distance NW might not seem like it but he actually has the control atleast in my opinion and why is that:
if Superman Wakes up with his dashing punch thing your at a nice distance to see it happen before you get into block stun
if he does his rising grab he will whiff and you can punish
if he dashs back you have 2 options Flying Grayson or B2 ( the staff reaching one i think its B2)

now about pressure you can do if y ou think he aint gonna wakeup:

i love to jump forward with 1 and follow up with atleast 2 D1 i never do more than 2 cause then you might get traded or hit by a fast D2 as stupid as that may sound... after the D1 your at advantage so what i like to do is start mixing his brain until its goo with D1 into j2 combo or if y ou think his going to do a fast D2 to get out of pressure i like to do jump foward 1, D1,D1 into Jumpback 1,1,D3 it works great to get them opened up

EDIT: i know most ppl dont really like to be near superman cause i knwo its kidna scary but i think if you stay in that sweet spot its your best option cause lets face it.. NW doesnt have the Zoning to be at a far range so thats a big nono for NW, he also doesnt have the luxury to be all up in Supermans Face cause superman has frame advantage on most of the stuff he will be using to contain NW... so the sweet spot is the way to go to nullify that advantage... its hard its very footsie based for NW and theres a lot of mesuring involved in this matchup... surely not a confurtable position for NW that usually dictates the passe and distances of a match

 

[TakeAChance]

Wouldn't him simply being able to walk faster than my dead grandpa be a huge Escrima buff?

Yes lol

I have to dash like a retard because I take so god damn long to walk anywhere lol

 

[ruff321]

And if they can buff MB staff spin so that it doesn't whiff on any of the characters that would be great... at this point I really don't care what they do with scatter bombs I hardly use it but hey if they buff it then great.


I wonder if they're going to nerf NW....

 

[14K]

And if they can buff MB staff spin so that it doesn't whiff on any of the characters that would be great... at this point I really don't care what they do with scatter bombs I hardly use it but hey if they buff it then great.


I wonder if they're going to nerf NW....

honestly i wish they would fix the "spin"bug against air dashing characters... on ambiguous situations where NWs figure should be still for you to decide where you want to block... No.. he spins around 360 its almsot damn near impossible to block anything if your character is spining 360 with the opponent is in the air... i also notice that MMH also has this problem not its not as frequent...

 

[NightwingDayZero]

And if they can buff MB staff spin so that it doesn't whiff on any of the characters that would be great... at this point I really don't care what they do with scatter bombs I hardly use it but hey if they buff it then great.


I wonder if they're going to nerf NW....

Pako doesn't know shit about Dick. Whatever he does to him will be baseless.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I lost to a superman last night in tournament.

I main Grundy and NW. I knew I was screwed.

 

[XxM3LLOxX]

Even though it was one rank match, good stuff NightwingDayZero. I'm randomly playing all the nightwings I look up to all of a sudden lol

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Even though it was one rank match, good stuff NightwingDayZero. I'm randomly playing all the nightwings I look up to all of a sudden lol

Both of us can't be looking up! GG man. Great punishes on the wingdings, everyone was telling me how unsafe they were in the mirror, no one was showing me!

 

[Dirtylova]

I lost to a superman last night in tournament.

I main Grundy and NW. I knew I was screwed.

Fuckin superman, so stupid... It's like, you try and grind out the mu, just to realize how depressingly hopeless it is..

Also, lets get those NW mirrors in.

 

[Blind_Falcon]

Question on the Batgirl MU.

The situation where she gets full screen, and just keep firing Bola and Batarang, Teleport when you try to zone.

What is the best option here?

 

[XxM3LLOxX]

NightwingDayZero
lol somebody gotta look up!
yea i prefer using wingdings to check people from dashing in, or catching them ducking near me if im not close enough for B2 to hit. The height i do them also depends on the character and how they react when i neutral jump, jump back, jump forward, or jus do IWD's instead. The mirror match jus comes down to reads, proper spacing, and knowledge of the opponents habits, etc.

 

[Sajam]

What I wrote in the video thread about the GL matchup:

I make almost all of my local GL players hate this matchup, because if they win it should be a pain in the ass for them. Ground sparks mean he can't walk in free, and ground spark dash cancels forward under air rocket means he has to be scared about using them. Don't let him air rocket for free, make sure you punish it, or at least get free pressure. Once you are under it you can j2 and confirm into whatever you want. You beat GL for free in escrima at full screen, so make sure you maintain that distance, unless you feel like you need to do something else. I feel like 90% of this matchup is about misdirection and tricking your opponent. Suddenly stance canceling to staff for a mb ground blast after not using it in zoning all game is the kind of stuff I go for.

You should never, ever be opened up by Gl without the mixup being ridiculous. His basic high/low game isn't enough to crack you, and teching throws isn't a problem (Plus, eating a throw instead of a b13/f3 is better anyway). Your pressure works well on GL, and you have lots of ways to time jump ins that avoid lift on wakeup. His b13 rocket pressure can be dashed on reaction, and everything else after is easy to deal with. If you see him trait cancel, then you should be d1'ing. If he does trait cancel into lift, then you might get hit, but you just learned a lot about the person you are playing.

In footsie range, don't try contest b13. Either get out of it's range with a jump back, or down back and wait for him to do it. Don't get stuck in the limbo in between and get hit for free. That moment where you decide if you should do something or not is gonna be what gets you hit. B2 is probably only going to be useful for setups/punishing lifts at a far distance in this matchup.

In general, don't let him get away with zoning you or walking backwards. He should be forced to come in, and then you can get away with whatever you want. Approaching GL is usually suicide, so making him come to you is a huge gift in this matchup.

 

[NTN]

What I wrote in the video thread about the GL matchup:

I make almost all of my local GL players hate this matchup, because if they win it should be a pain in the ass for them. Ground sparks mean he can't walk in free, and ground spark dash cancels forward under air rocket means he has to be scared about using them. Don't let him air rocket for free, make sure you punish it, or at least get free pressure. Once you are under it you can j2 and confirm into whatever you want. You beat GL for free in escrima at full screen, so make sure you maintain that distance, unless you feel like you need to do something else. I feel like 90% of this matchup is about misdirection and tricking your opponent. Suddenly stance canceling to staff for a mb ground blast after not using it in zoning all game is the kind of stuff I go for.

You should never, ever be opened up by Gl without the mixup being ridiculous. His basic high/low game isn't enough to crack you, and teching throws isn't a problem (Plus, eating a throw instead of a b13/f3 is better anyway). Your pressure works well on GL, and you have lots of ways to time jump ins that avoid lift on wakeup. His b13 rocket pressure can be dashed on reaction, and everything else after is easy to deal with. If you see him trait cancel, then you should be d1'ing. If he does trait cancel into lift, then you might get hit, but you just learned a lot about the person you are playing.

In footsie range, don't try contest b13. Either get out of it's range with a jump back, or down back and wait for him to do it. Don't get stuck in the limbo in between and get hit for free. That moment where you decide if you should do something or not is gonna be what gets you hit. B2 is probably only going to be useful for setups/punishing lifts at a far distance in this matchup.

In general, don't let him get away with zoning you or walking backwards. He should be forced to come in, and then you can get away with whatever you want. Approaching GL is usually suicide, so making him come to you is a huge gift in this matchup.

I feel so free to GL. I fear his B12 and Lanterns might to much and can't go in all ham against him which i want I usually end up in the "limbo" state of mind and becoming a sitting duck right infron of him . So maybe your tactic is a better way to play this MU, will try to make GL come to me next time i play it!

 

[macro]

I'm going to start off saying that i love playing Nightwing and he will always be my main but i hate his super bad matchups so i wanted to ask you guys what character to second for thoughs bad matchups?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

so i wanted to ask you guys person to second for thoughs bad matchups?

Killer Instinct 3.

Excuse the sarcasm. Mad salty tonight. Batgirl. All day.

 

[macro]

Killer Instinct 3.

Excuse the sarcasm. Mad salty tonight. Batgirl. All day.

Well i hate autocorrect!

 

[macro]

Killer Instinct 3.

Excuse the sarcasm. Mad salty tonight. Batgirl. All day.

But i'm not geting a xbox one ps4 all day.

 

[14K]

I feel so free to GL. I fear his B12 and Lanterns might to much and can't go in all ham against him which i want I usually end up in the "limbo" state of mind and becoming a sitting duck right infron of him . So maybe your tactic is a better way to play this MU, will try to make GL come to me next time i play it!

Yeah i know what you mean but, let me weight in here on something... usually when im fighting GL i just look for 2 things Air Rockets and dash ins with B13, why is that.. because 1. Air Rockets like Sajam said are a easy way in for NW, i mean as soon as you see him jump just dash in and you will be just fine ( usually the combo i do here is: wait for him to be considerably close to the floor to do an Escrima fury into staffcancel to MB groundspark B3, J3,1,.. this will leave him close for a safe J2,or J1 and more pressure... if you practise enouth with the safe J2 doesnt matter if he does Lantern Might, Machinegun, or whatever, you will get your J2 in and be safe at time if he wakes...)

2nd option i like to do with referencing the J3 that Sajam already mentioned, i like to again wait for him to get really close to the ground do a F2,1,3 this to get him in blockstun, and from here you have so many options its crazy... if you know the timing you can go for a Crossup Flip kick usually works on most ppl... or you can Staff Cancel into Staffspin MB for added frameadvantage for you to do more staff mixups... you can even do (if you think none of those i meantioned will work in your favor, witch i douht it but lets amek the scenario) 3 more options with groundspark. 1. groundspark to hit him low ( low dmg and leaves you in a so so position to block and run)
2. Groundspark dashcancel forward into grab or more mix ups
3. Groundspark Cancel Back to give yourself a bit of space..

Now for the B1.3 things i like to do:

my first option is always to never be there to get in block stun of his B2, but lets imagine you do get in that space where a B1 could occur..
1. i like to study my oponnent to see what kind of player he is and at what lvl... a so so GL might do Trait into Lanterns might... well thats a no brainer free punish for NW... Someone a bit better mighty go Trait into Machine Gun... Sajam already Convered this punish and prevention... But sometimes i like to do something that might seem risky but if your playing Offline or in a really good online connection( douht it but lets say your playing with your next door friend and your connection is fresh) you can do a DB3 on comand...

I know this might sound lunatic and totally unsafe.. and it is LOL but listen up.. when you are at that B1,3 distance you know GLs are dying to get it out and put you in block stun for some Chip dmg with machine gun or safe pressure so when you see he is leaning back just throw the DB3 out to punish him... on hit 2 things can happen, it can hit front on top of his leg, or it can hit on his head and its a crossup. now this took me a while to get a hang of it and doing it somewhat on comand/prediction, bvut like everyting its pratice...

 

[Sajam]

You can also throw lots of b3s on reaction. I do it a lot, but not all of them can be throw. Some of them, like Batman b3, are throw invulnerable. So if you know which f3/b3s can be thrown then you can react with it whenever you see them start up. It's probably not something you will hit much online, but it's always an option.

Also, if you are ever in staff and have them cornered, empty jump throw is the best thing ever.