Match-up Discussion Bane Matchup Discussion

[chief713]

Yea it sucks that you can't get the grab off of d.2. At least you're safe tho. Something I forgot about that I should've put in the vid is if you do super instead, it works the same way and catches them on hit AND block. He has to backdash to get out of it which means it should be inescapable in the corner. Someone else may want to test.

 

[Doombawkz]

Yea it sucks that you can't get the grab off of d.2. At least you're safe tho. Something I forgot about that I should've put in the vid is if you do super instead, it works the same way and catches them on hit AND block. He has to backdash to get out of it which means it should be inescapable in the corner. Someone else may want to test.

We've done testing on that, look up my "breaking of grab immunity" topic. They can backdash or angle jump on reaction.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Actually d.2 always operated like this. This has been an OS for some months now.

D1 worked better for me but now D2 lines up better post-Body press now.

 

[Jagernaut]

Good find, but man that's a tough input.. I've always just F.3 MB charged

 

[chief713]

Good find, but man that's a tough input.. I've always just F.3 MB charged

Nooo, it's actually very easy. You do it just as you would d1 xx double punch. So, input d2, and then quickly press b.f.3 and it'll come out. Have to have release check set to off, though.

 

[chief713]

Some Nightwing matches.

 

[Doombawkz]

Grr
Against Batman, stop splashing so much and let loose with those j.3s. Every time I see you get clipped by a batarang because of the lesser jump arc of j.d.3 it hurts me on the inside. Not gonna lie, Darth Arma got the matches off of pretty much that alone. I counted up the damage and if you j.3'd instead of splash you would've avoided like 50% damage from each match.

Throw out j.3 command grab and you'll usually catch them out of blockstun for free. You probably already knew, but still.

 

[Grr]

Grr
Against Batman, stop splashing so much and let loose with those j.3s. Every time I see you get clipped by a batarang because of the lesser jump arc of j.d.3 it hurts me on the inside. Not gonna lie, Darth Arma got the matches off of pretty much that alone. I counted up the damage and if you j.3'd instead of splash you would've avoided like 50% damage from each match.

Throw out j.3 command grab and you'll usually catch them out of blockstun for free. You probably already knew, but still.

I usually get in the habit of using body splash as my main jump in, but recently I have been using j.1 and j.2 more often. I don't really like using j.3 because I feel like Darth is going to knock me out of the air before my j.3 connects. But I should try to j.3 into grab more often.

 

[chief713]

When I do j.3, I always do it sort of early. It's faster than it looks and has pretty big range. Also, for jump-ins, I've been trying out j.2/j.d3 xx double punch. I know it's my fault for mistiming, but I tend to get blown up sometimes when I do a jump in and miss the string. Can't really make that mistake when Bane is SO negative on his jump attacks. So I started buffering in DP instead. It's been working out pretty good.

The people I've tried it on tended to block low a lot on wakeup. Probably a combination of b.23 being really dangerous and standing 1 being high so they can duck and poke/block. Needless to say, the above setup tended to work a lot. And even if they block, you're neutral and in their face with venom.

 

[Doombawkz]

I usually get in the habit of using body splash as my main jump in, but recently I have been using j.1 and j.2 more often. I don't really like using j.3 because I feel like Darth is going to knock me out of the air before my j.3 connects. But I should try to j.3 into grab more often.

j.2 isn't bad but j.3 has so much more reach and its priority is redic.
Plus on hit and block its a free body press buffer, while j.2 to my knowledge isn't.

 

[chief713]

j.2 isn't bad but j.3 has so much more reach and its priority is redic.
Plus on hit and block its a free body press buffer, while j.2 to my knowledge isn't.

It works with j.2 as well, though I don't think you get as much frame advantage off of it than j.3 (at least it doesn't feel like it) so it's probably not as safe. Still, if you're armoring the command grab that shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[LEGI0N47]

I've been doing primarily J2 as it seems to have the best results for air to air and seemlessly combo's into 113 charge crossover. However I can not deny the goods that J3 holds. Need to use it more.

 

[AK coolcmcgee]

I got to play AK Pig Of The Hut last night. Played about 25 games with half against Zod and half against Sinestro. I admit I'm rusty as its only my second or third day playing after a month away, but Zod's charge grab was giving me fits. I couldn't hit him out of the air even with Venom upper. It also seems to beat out an armored charge sometimes. Not exactly sure what is going on, but i was mid-charge (running forward) with Venom up and his grab beat me out. Anyone have any experience here? I feel like he gets away free if he wants with that dang air dash.

Our venom is a great counter for his trait. I have basically no Zod MU experience, but armored specials seems to work well. Zod is focused on his trait demon thing and isn't expecting a charge to armor through. You can keep it up until the trait is done too.

Sinestro doesn't feel like that bad of a matchup if you're patient. I was anything but patient, so it didn't go well lol

dont know if this was already answered but you need to at lvl 3 Venom to beat it out i cant remember if lvl 2 does at the moment and the charge grab is also unsafe so you could block it and get a easy punish

 

[LaidbackOne]

Some Nightwing matches.

If I may suggest something, use d2 followed by a combo of your choice as your anti air instead of venom uppercut. It usually whiffs and Banes d2 is not that bad.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Some Nightwing matches.

Btw just got to 12:07 match. Pure fucking domination <3

 

[big_aug]

If I may suggest something, use d2 followed by a combo of your choice as your anti air instead of venom uppercut. It usually whiffs and Banes d2 is not that bad.

Venom Upper never whiffs as an anti-air vs jump ins.

 

[big_aug]

If you have only chip left on your current life bar, you should just go lvl 3 and charge vs any character with projectiles. They are almost always going to try and finish you that way. I've done MASSIVE damage with chip health left because of the immunity,

 

[chief713]

If I may suggest something, use d2 followed by a combo of your choice as your anti air instead of venom uppercut. It usually whiffs and Banes d2 is not that bad.

Like aug said, Venom Upper doesn't usually whiff unless you're trying to dash up and catch a jump back or an air dash. That can be kinda iffy. But I am trying to use d.2 more as an AA. Bane gets a combo or a f.3 crossup reset off of it as well as some really disgusting command grab/super setups so it's a good button that every Bane needs to work into their footsies as a primary tool. Good advice.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

As I said, play blind-man. Her f.2(?) has 2 quick hits which is imo much better than b.1 because if we try to keep armoring on through she can tag us. Also, all it takes is one charge for GL too, especially off of a baited minigun or a blocked one in close range. You can charge practically blindly against GL since most of the time you'll be able to block anything he has coming out. You can't do the same with Raven and her attacks really aren't all that bad on block at the distance she is strongest.

Blind_Man can maybe shed some light on her better tools vs Bane if he wants to honour us with his presence.

Are you serious? I saw you play on stream against wonderchef's Green Lantern and you barely touched him. He was keeping you out all day long and you kept eating b1s, miniguns and random lifts. Your constant theory fighting and overglorification of Bane is sickening to say the least. Reno racks was right about you.

 

[Doombawkz]

Are you serious? I saw you play on stream against wonderchef's Green Lantern and you barely touched him. He was keeping you out all day long and you kept eating b1s, miniguns and random lifts. Your constant theory fighting and overglorification of Bane is sickening to say the least. Reno racks was right about you.

To begin, I've never claimed to be a good Bane. In fact, I go on record constantly to say that while I am very good at finding techs and analyzing his tools, I am underwhelming in performance. On another note, Chef is a much better player than I am both execution wise and in fundamentals, and I've also attested to such. I'll never say he didn't beat me, nor that it was a fluke or that I could best him in a set. He outplayed me entirely, and even given a set of 10 I would be unlikely to take even a single game off of him.

He played probably the best GL I've ever had the honour of going against, and honestly I do wish I had made a better showing but Maxintensity25 can pretty much tell you I'm not an aggressive Bane which is necessary in most matches. I believe myself to be one of the worst Banes, though I'm often told otherwise.

To that extent, however, your point is accurate. Beyond it, all it ended up as was one of the better GL's in the game outzoning an inferior player using Bane. Me losing doesn't make my point any less valid or true, it simply is coming from someone who has lost to a GL. We fought in one match and he beat me, yes. To believe that automatically dismisses my point is nothing short of idiocy, but then you were never one to show yourself to be of any higher merit so I'm glad I didn't expect otherwise.

In short, yes. EGP Wonder_Chef is a much better player than I am and I underestimated him as I'd yet to fight a GL who can properly use rockets. AK Reno_Racks was correct in saying that I, as a player, am likely not entirely skilled although his line of thinking was baseless it wasn't incorrect. You pulled a comment from long before I had a chance to fight Chef so either you are pandering to make yourself feel more important like a "I was right" moment, or you are honestly just that much of an idiot to think that while I can be stubborn I'm incapable of admitting I am wrong or reconsidering my opinions.

If you are done finding your thoughts from other people's posts, then I welcome you to join some intelligent discussion. I hype Bane because there's no point in being super depressed about your character like some people are and I'd rather enjoy myself, however when it comes down to the on paper I'll be the first to admit he has problems and that he has some match-ups that are plain unwinnable while only a select few that are. I'm open to saying that I feel he can be mid-tier according to other sources, but I still openly say I feel he is still in the bottom 5 because for all the dirt we find for him, he isn't capable of using it as consistently as other characters. Chef said it himself that I get obnoxious when I talk about Bane players and Bane in general, which to be honest I told him I found him obnoxious but admitted he was right and I was indifferent towards the opinion. I enjoy having fun, and my kind of fun isn't for everyone but most people tend to enjoy the positive energy the Bane forum brings towards their character.

Even still, nothing is set in stone and no one is always correct. Before you give the "You are always wrong" rebuttal, you should know that for the most part I haven't been incorrect when I'm not purposely antagonizing the Killer Frost players, but also that I base my cases on the general consensus of the people around me barring when I know certain things are not true. I'm willing to debate my point or view, but you'll rarely if ever catch me being decisive in my answers since I prefer to keep adding points to continue the discussion. I still, even after the Chef match, feel that GL is not a bad MU and certainly not a 3-7 or 3.5-6.5 MU. I was short-sighted and misinformed about my own numeric beliefs, however I can't bring myself to believe that its as bad as Nightwing or Lex Luthor. I don't see Minigun as an end-all solution and I feel that a better Bane could probably provide more challenge towards a GL player than myself.


Is there anything else you feel like adding? If not, then you can see yourself out since your opinion on me isn't important here. Make a topic blowing me up in the main forum if you feel like it, but if you are going to call me out, I have no quarrel informing you that I am indeed a human who doesn't have complete accuracy, but does have the audacity to admit as much.

I won't bother lowering myself to insult you any further, and if I have or offended you then I apologize with as much fervor as I defend my character. I'm not here to make enemies, though it would seem you've made a task of making one of me, and I really do wish you wouldn't do so. I won't call out Chef or Max or anyone to defend me because I'm not going to hide that I'm not a skilled Bane when it comes to fighting in matches. I didn't make it out of pools in EVO, losing to a Doomsday from Washington state and the KOF champion of the previous year playing Nightwing in succession and only 2-0'ing an Aquaman. I don't beat RunwayMafia or Espio in matches often, with only a few select victories based on me happening upon the luck of a good read, I can't beat Blind_Man because his Raven is the pride of Trigon, hell even Mr. Mileena 's Zatanna, a MU I felt was in Bane's favour, beat me 0-10 cleanly. All of them can tell you that my records against them are far from positive, and some might even say that as a Bane player I'm lacking in a lot of core fundamentals he needs to succeed. As I said in the first bit, I've never said nor will I ever say I am a good or even one of the best Banes. I am simply one who knows a very long list of techs and continues to add to it, and one that is very good at analyzing the playstyles of other players. Outside of that, I am average at best and I admit to such.

P.S: PND_Mustard was the first to say that the GL Match-up wasn't as bad as we thought and gave us several reasons why, many of which I restated in the topic and some of which were recently discovered (such as mini-gun being block dashable). If you have a real issue with my ideals, take it up with him since that's where most of them were founded.

P.S.S: My opinions on Shazam are actually 90% incorrect, but I don't bother hiding it because I've admitted time and time again I don't know the character and usually ask someone from Shazam forum to correct me one or two instances withholding.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I honestly feel that Bane-GL is 6-4 Bane, i'll try to find my writeup about the MU which I posted somewhere in the GL forums.

both THTB and I agreed to this a little while ago, and i have tourney footage against a knowledgable GL to go with it if you want.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Grr
Against Batman, stop splashing so much and let loose with those j.3s. Every time I see you get clipped by a batarang because of the lesser jump arc of j.d.3 it hurts me on the inside. Not gonna lie, Darth Arma got the matches off of pretty much that alone. I counted up the damage and if you j.3'd instead of splash you would've avoided like 50% damage from each match.

Throw out j.3 command grab and you'll usually catch them out of blockstun for free. You probably already knew, but still.

I usually get in the habit of using body splash as my main jump in, but recently I have been using j.1 and j.2 more often. I don't really like using j.3 because I feel like Darth is going to knock me out of the air before my j.3 connects. But I should try to j.3 into grab more often.

I cant see why bane would use anything but the splash(except maybe j1 in the corner). From my testing it seemed like the best tool to turn air pressure into ground pressure. Connecting 113 or d1xxdouble punch usually safely transitions me from air to ground and keeps my opponent right next to me. The way bane positions his body helps me avoid such a wide variety of projectiles, and I flat out beat MMH stupid safe tele + BA dive kick. After a command grab JD3's also seems like the best jump in option with little visible change in making it hit normal or cross up(and because of the hitbox of the splash the legs hit the opponent when it crosses up putting bane a little farther back when he lands. Connecting a double punch after the body press to cross up trades or completely stuffs lex's corpse charge reversal. no venom needed). Its like the golden jump in to me, what are its faults?

If you are done finding your thoughts from other people's posts, then I welcome you to join some intelligent discussion. I hype Bane because there's no point in being super depressed about your character like some people are and I'd rather enjoy myself, however when it comes down to the on paper I'll be the first to admit he has problems and that he has some match-ups that are plain unwinnable while only a select few that are. I'm open to saying that I feel he can be mid-tier according to other sources, but I still openly say I feel he is still in the bottom 5 because for all the dirt we find for him, he isn't capable of using it as consistently as other characters. Chef said it himself that I get obnoxious when I talk about Bane players and Bane in general, which to be honest I told him I found him obnoxious but admitted he was right and I was indifferent towards the opinion. I enjoy having fun, and my kind of fun isn't for everyone but most people tend to enjoy the positive energy the Bane forum brings towards their character.

Even still, nothing is set in stone and no one is always correct. Before you give the "You are always wrong" rebuttal, you should know that for the most part I haven't been incorrect when I'm not purposely antagonizing the Killer Frost players, but also that I base my cases on the general consensus of the people around me barring when I know certain things are not true. I'm willing to debate my point or view, but you'll rarely if ever catch me being decisive in my answers since I prefer to keep adding points to continue the discussion. I still, even after the Chef match, feel that GL is not a bad MU and certainly not a 3-7 or 3.5-6.5 MU. I was short-sighted and misinformed about my own numeric beliefs, however I can't bring myself to believe that its as bad as Nightwing or Lex Luthor. I don't see Minigun as an end-all solution and I feel that a better Bane could probably provide more challenge towards a GL player than myself.

Dont let him push you to downplay, bane is the best. TBH I went from sinestro and lex at launch, to GL and Grundy around early may, to bane at around mid june. Since I started using him hes been my main drive to keep playing injustice, playing him makes me want to put in the game and go to practice mode to work on bnb's/gimmicks/frame traps/MU specific skills every day. I respect the hype and theory crafting is beneficial to anyone playing the character .

In regards to the GL MU I feel GL's only positive in that MU is minigun and its variants(more so the MBminigun and trait minigun). After bane gets a knockdown he completely controls the pace of the match, and since the minigun only punishes charges outside of sweep range bane still completely dominates him where he plays his game. Up close. GL doesnt have reliable means to punish pushblock or really do anything to bane when he has trait available so he must rely on getting the first hit and zoning entirely which is hard to do if the bane dashes like a madman canceling to block on reaction of the minigun.

 

[Doombawkz]

I cant see why bane would use anything but the splash(except maybe j1 in the corner). From my testing it seemed like the best tool to turn air pressure into ground pressure. Connecting 113 or d1xxdouble punch usually safely transitions me from air to ground and keeps my opponent right next to me. The way bane positions his body helps me avoid such a wide variety of projectiles, and I flat out beat MMH stupid safe tele + BA dive kick. After a command grab JD3's also seems like the best jump in option with little visible change in making it hit normal or cross up(and because of the hitbox of the splash the legs hit the opponent when it crosses up putting bane a little farther back when he lands. Connecting a double punch after the body press to cross up trades or completely stuffs lex's corpse charge reversal. no venom needed). Its like the golden jump in to me, what are its faults?



Dont let him push you to downplay, bane is the best. TBH I went from sinestro and lex at launch, to GL and Grundy around early may, to bane at around mid june. Since I started using him hes been my main drive to keep playing injustice, playing him makes me want to put in the game and go to practice mode to work on bnb's/gimmicks/frame traps/MU specific skills every day. I respect the hype and theory crafting is beneficial to anyone playing the character .

In regards to the GL MU I feel GL's only positive in that MU is minigun and its variants(more so the MBminigun and trait minigun). After bane gets a knockdown he completely controls the pace of the match, and since the minigun only punishes charges outside of sweep range bane still completely dominates him where he plays his game. Up close. GL doesnt have reliable means to punish pushblock or really do anything to bane when he has trait available so he must rely on getting the first hit and zoning entirely which is hard to do if the bane dashes like a madman canceling to block on reaction of the minigun.

For the first bit of it, my classy big-body fellow, j.d.3 "stunts" your jump. Basically if you splash, your jump arc actually decreases and you fall more vertically. For the sake of just approaching from the air, j.3 actually has more forward reach so when you are within "jump" distance his splash won't reach while his j.3 will and you can convert off of it. Also j.d.3 113 only works on cross-up because otherwise they can hold down and it'll avoid your combo because the first 1 of the string doesn't connect. j.3 also connects to body press, however it does more damage and its easier to buffer out upon landing.

Also something that a lot of people don't know is you can actually MB cancel your jump attacks into b.3 and f.3, so if someone is trying to MB b.3, you can clip off of them and go right into your own MB b.3 punish. It costs 1 bar extra but Bane has some decent meter regen so its not too bad.

On the second bit, I'm not downplaying. That's actually how I feel about Bane as a character, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy him but I'm not blind to his flaws. I'm also having to take into account not everyone knows how to Aug Ares, otherwise he would be in the bottom, but to be fair even the bottom 5 aren't unviable characters. Bane still needs work, that's all.

That's pretty much how I saw it, but he can actually zone pretty well with missiles so its still a bit hard.

 

[Nonameformedude]

That never really occurred to me because I use my splash to NJ punish/keep safe , protect myself from air warfare, or to cross up after a command grab(which the vertical fall helps with). I didnt know that 113 after a splash couldn't be ducked if the jump in crossed up, I usually come strong with many double punches before I feel their trained enough for a 113. Now that you mention the vertical drop of splash, does that make a regular j3 more effective to air to air NW out of wingding start up animation?

Maybe its because of my transition from Grundys cardboard box to Banes palace, I just feel soo much better in 90% of the MU with this character. Ill agree he needs work though, armor isnt a solution to everything(when its on cooldown its the problem with everything).

 

[Doombawkz]

That never really occurred to me because I use my splash to NJ punish/keep safe , protect myself from air warfare, or to cross up after a command grab(which the vertical fall helps with). I didnt know that 113 after a splash couldn't be ducked if the jump in crossed up, I usually come strong with many double punches before I feel their trained enough for a 113. Now that you mention the vertical drop of splash, does that make a regular j3 more effective to air to air NW out of wingding start up animation?

Maybe its because of my transition from Grundys cardboard box to Banes palace, I just feel soo much better in 90% of the MU with this character. Ill agree he needs work though, armor isnt a solution to everything(when its on cooldown its the problem with everything).

Against wing dings, your best bet is honestly to just block and punish. I ~think~ we get a free d.b.f.3 out of it, but don't quote me. If you have to air to air, know that the j.3 is quite a bit slower than his other options, but it all comes down to distance.

If they are jumping at you, j.1 will come out almost instantly and allow you to tap them for a full combo punish.

If they are neutral jumping, j.2 is usually the best option because of its reach and speed balance, while also being a forward hitbox instead of a centric one.

If they are grounded, j.d.3 and j.3 are your best options, with j.3 doing as much damage as a j.d.3 b.23 on its own while j.d.3 gives more versatility in your follow-up. j.d.3 is best for cross-ups because of the jump shortening, while j.3 is the best for tech chases and knockdown set-ups because its a forward hitbox and a much longer reaching move.

If they are jumping away or approaching from the ground, j.2 and j.3 are your best options with j.2 giving the best follow-up potential while j.3 covers you defensively and reaches far enough to be a solid offensive tool. Also if the opponent is doing some sort of hover or jump-rising attack (Hawkgirl fly, Batman glide, Wing Dings, Dive kick) then j.3 has an arcing hitbox as well so it can handle anything from the top of Bane's skull to below his feet in one smooth motion, allowing you to peg them out of the sky if you do it right. However, its risky and as I said you'll usually be better off simply blocking them out since all of them have means to hit you out of the air first.