Breakthrough ATTN NRS: HawkGirl Fixes/Issues/Requests

[RunwayMafia]

Konqrr
Yes. I mentioned her F3 the other night...its as if she extends forward and then reverts back to her body. The "hit" from her F3 is like at her knees...its weird.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Konqrr
Yes. I mentioned her F3 the other night...its as if she extends forward and then reverts back to her body. The "hit" from her F3 is like at her knees...its weird.

Lol tbh I thought it was just another F3 that Catwoman could duck, but if it happens with other characters it probably should be fixed lol

 

[Tiger Wong]

Tiger Wong
Can you expand more about the vs DS match-up? I don't want to raise my torch without proper reason.

In my honest opinion, agree with it or not, Hawkgirl is one of the least played characters, so match-up knowledge is very hard to come by.

Well there's a matchup discussion thread you can look to.

But really quickly.......

- air gun shots shut down any semblance of a flight or mid air game. Only ocassional air MT MBs off good reads are what you want to do.
- Most DS players know they've got you by the balls if you jump so they alter their gameplan slightly and then alternate high and low gun shots. HG's dash is so slow after she blocks the high shot and tries to dash, she gets shot again by either another high shot or a low shot. HG has to take a few chances to get in.
- DS' Sword Flip and Sword Spin truck HGs oki game something fierce. If the Sword spin is meter burned, he gets a nice combo for either big damage, or to push you back out to gun fire range to start the painful process of getting in again.
- DS' j3 is a friggin nightmare vs HG. He can get good damage of a combo with it, it's ambiguous as hell, and it's a good tactic to neutral jump and do it as it knocks HG out of her WE 3 and MC cleanly.
- And on the attack he's got legit 50/50s

 

[Konqrr]

Lol tbh I thought it was just another F3 that Catwoman could duck, but if it happens with other characters it probably should be fixed lol

It has like no forward range either... literally it only hits where the mace goes to the pixel and no further. Other characters have those phantom hitboxes... HG needs this too with more forward range!

 

[Tiger Wong]

And what happens when you learn the pillar spacing and can dodge them. Answer: Rape

How the fuck is HG gonna do that while in flight? Dumb.

And I just want to go back to moves that hit her out of the air.

Batgirl: If you block smoke bomb then she has nothing to defend from air maces
Sinestro: If you block boulder, he has nothing to defend from air maces
MMH: Maybe try staying near the ground and canceling flight? Both of his teleports are unsafe
Zod: I highly doubt this MU is unwinnable with this.
Cyborg: If you can block his projectiles, he can no longer defend from air maces
Deathstroke: He wont be able to defend air maces
Lex: She would rape lex if this happens, CC is unsafe and all hit projectiles are unsafe as well

So yeah, blocking in the air is a dumb idea and will not happen, might as well drop it.

And this is why I said you
DIDN'T
FUCKING
READ!

I wrote "while in flight, you can block projectiles"

Is smoke bomb a projectile?
Is Zod Charge a projectile?
Is CC a projectile?

 

[gdf]

Well there's a matchup discussion thread you can look to.

But really quickly.......

- air gun shots shut down any semblance of a flight or mid air game. Only ocassional air MT MBs off good reads are what you want to do.
- Most DS players know they've got you by the balls if you jump so they alter their gameplan slightly and then alternate high and low gun shots. HG's dash is so slow after she blocks the high shot and tries to dash, she gets shot again by either another high shot or a low shot. HG has to take a few chances to get in.
- DS' Sword Flip and Sword Spin truck HGs oki game something fierce. If the Sword spin is meter burned, he gets a nice combo for either big damage, or to push you back out to gun fire range to start the painful process of getting in again.
- DS' j3 is a friggin nightmare vs HG. He can get good damage of a combo with it, it's ambiguous as hell, and it's a good tactic to neutral jump and do it as it knocks HG out of her WE 3 and MC cleanly.
- And on the attack he's got legit 50/50s

I appreciate you going out of your way with information. Sometimes a matchup discussion thread is jumbled with information spanning multiple pages, and even outdated information.
You can understand my, if menial, dilemma.

 

[Zoidberg747]

How the fuck is HG gonna do that while in flight? Dumb.



And this is why I said you
DIDN'T
FUCKING
READ!

I wrote "while in flight, you can block projectiles

Is smoke bomb a projectile?
Is Zod Charge a projectile?
Is CC a projectile?

I kind of thought smoke bomb was a projectile for a sec, MK9 still in my brain...

I also love how you ignored the other 4 MUs I talked about.

Oh and FYI, you can move while in flight mode, your welcome.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Who's saying HG isn't to respecting it? She's blocking it. All that means is she's in block stun. What can HG do in block stun? A whole lot of nothing that's what.

This isn't MK. There's no block button. So HG has to float backwards just to start blocking. She ends up losing her possible space control and thoughts of getting in for a second.

Blocking while in Flight is no OP. Not even in the slightest. All it does is create a mid-air metagame.



It doesn't track. It just has a bit more range than the 45 because it can hit the tip of your feet and the tip of your head. The point is, it's not anything to really fear like she can block punish a ground projectile from flight with her MT. She might be able to do that vs Batman's Grapple. But she still has to play it smart vs his Up Batarangs which are only -5 on block and if you MB it, it's at +frames.

The same thing applies for his trait. As HG, I'd have to choose to block. And while I'm cloking the bats, Batman can still jump in on me and bust my ass.

It's not OP.
It's not broke.
Stop being so scared and think. I thought it would be OP on first thought too. But after I examined it and thought about it, I believe it's a good idea.
It's a new metagame vs HG
Let's all try to keep up here

That argument can be applied with EVERY character. No one has the exception of not holding back to block other than Doomsday with his trait active. Pretty much every character as well can't do anything after blocked pillars. Raven at full screen distance with trait active, you have to respect period no matter who you use. As for the mace toss, yeah its hitbox is huge, and I didn't say it was OP or broke to begin with. You said it would only hit at one spot, it's obvious it doesn't. My fuck up was saying it tracked. It still does cover a large amount of space regardless

 

[GreatDunn]

How the fuck is HG gonna do that while in flight? Dumb.



And this is why I said you
DIDN'T
FUCKING
READ!

I wrote "while in flight, you can block projectiles"

Is smoke bomb a projectile?
Is Zod Charge a projectile?
Is CC a projectile?

I, myself, am not too keen on the blocking thing, either and she's my main. Now, give her a move while flying, that lets her parry/deflect projectiles, not even reflecting them back and I can see that working. Low altitude flight that blocks MB projectiles like Zods bitch pistol, all of DS's gun shots, etc., would allow you to MB pushblock and gain more ground to the corner. That's my main beef with the idea.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I, myself, am not too keen on the blocking thing, either and she's my main. Now, give her a move while flying, that lets her parry/deflect projectiles, not even reflecting them back and I can see that working. Low altitude flight that blocks MB projectiles like Zods bitch pistol, all of DS's gun shots, etc., would allow you to MB pushblock and gain more ground to the corner. That's my main beef with the idea.

An air absorb move? Now that I can get behind(Although they probably are not going to add a whole move lol)

 

[GreatDunn]

An air absorb move? Now that I can get behind(Although they probably are not going to add a whole move lol)

Probably not. Closest other thing I could go with would be to give her a hit of armor during flight if you meter burn it. Though, not on moves while flying. Again, low altitude MC with armor would be a bit rough.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Yes you can slowly fly while in Flight. WOW. I'd love to see how this helps after she gets Supernova MBd. She can just fly out of the way right?

No. She can't. She can only fly out of the way of Raven's Pillars and BG's Smoke Bomb and she has to already be moving backwards for that to happen. AND she can't be backing into the edge of the screen or she'll STILL get hit. AND she can't even punish BG's Smoke bomb if she makes it whiff because nothing HG has is fast enough to land on BG when she lands.

As for that other crap...... I guess I'll have to lead you by the hand there too......

Sinestro: If you block boulder, he has nothing to defend from air maces

If he shoots a boulder while I throw an air mace, he wins. Period. If I throw an air mace and he boulders late, he STILL wins because the boulder hits. And HG is still far away from the screen.

MMH: Maybe try staying near the ground and canceling flight? Both of his teleports are unsafe

teleport punch is not a projectile.

Cyborg: If you can block his projectiles, he can no longer defend from air maces

If HG blocks a projectile from Cyborg and he throws another one as I MT guess who wins? Oh and keep in mind..... all his nova blasts except his horizontal ground one are + frames on block.

Deathstroke: He wont be able to defend air maces

What are you even talking about? Do you know what you're saying or are you just throwing out phrases and hope they stick? DS doesn't even care about air maces because he just jumps and shoots her out of the air.

Oh wait...... are you talking about his upward rifle shot? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!! Who the hell even uses that vs HG except just to get cute?

Bottom line, HG's air MT is just a tool. It's not some crazy move that can shut down everything. It can be jumped. It can be dashed past. It has to be thrown at a precise area. It's not a fast projectile at all. It's like -40 on whiff. And -27 on block. It's a good move. But it's not something you can say "Oh man that air MT is OP! NERF THAT SHIT!"

Well.... unless you're Nightwing or Killer Frost.

 

[gdf]

Tiger Wong
You want her to block, I read that, however what do you want to happen next? You blocked the zoning, but what can each character do during that post-blocking period?

I believe you may have addressed it, however so far it seems you merely want the ability to block mid-air (among other things, I'm not ignoring them, this one seemed most relevant).

 

[Tiger Wong]

Probably not. Closest other thing I could go with would be to give her a hit of armor during flight if you meter burn it. Though, not on moves while flying. Again, low altitude MC with armor would be a bit rough.

You know..... I actually wrote this idea in my post.

Guess nobody cared. Couldn't get past seeing "block" in the same sentence with "fly" before going crazy.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Yes you can slowly fly while in Flight. WOW. I'd love to see how this helps after she gets Supernova MBd. She can just fly out of the way right?

No. She can't. She can only fly out of the way of Raven's Pillars and BG's Smoke Bomb and she has to already be moving backwards for that to happen. AND she can't be backing into the edge of the screen or she'll STILL get hit. AND she can't even punish BG's Smoke bomb if she makes it whiff because nothing HG has is fast enough to land on BG when she lands.

As for that other crap...... I guess I'll have to lead you by the hand there too......



If he shoots a boulder while I throw an air mace, he wins. Period. If I throw an air mace and he boulders late, he STILL wins because the boulder hits. And HG is still far away from the screen.



teleport punch is not a projectile.



If HG blocks a projectile from Cyborg and he throws another one as I MT guess who wins? Oh and keep in mind..... all his nova blasts except his horizontal ground one are + frames on block.



What are you even talking about? Do you know what you're saying or are you just throwing out phrases and hope they stick? DS doesn't even care about air maces because he just jumps and shoots her out of the air.

Oh wait...... are you talking about his upward rifle shot? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!! Who the hell even uses that vs HG except just to get cute?

Bottom line, HG's air MT is just a tool. It's not some crazy move that can shut down everything. It can be jumped. It can be dashed past. It has to be thrown at a precise area. It's not a fast projectile at all. It's like -40 on whiff. And -27 on block. It's a good move. But it's not something you can say "Oh man that air MT is OP! NERF THAT SHIT!"

Well.... unless you're Nightwing or Killer Frost.

That whole last comment was talking about Ravens pillars.

Agree to disagree on the other stuff. She does not need it, IMO

 

[GreatDunn]

You know..... I actually wrote this idea in my post.

Guess nobody cared. Couldn't get past seeing "block" in the same sentence with "fly" before going crazy.

I knew someone mentioned it, but I couldn't remember who, or what post, as it's been a few days since I hit the forums. Air blocking projectiles adds an odd anomaly: what happens if, say, Zod jumps and shoots a ball, and you burn a bar to pushblock it? Does he go tumbling head over heels back to the ground, like a cartoon? Or does he just get the "WTF" animation that everyone gets from pushblocking and drop. Does he drop straight down, which leads into an MT, or does he drop backward, pushing him into the corner?

Busting that one bar to pushblock is pretty much the foundation of the reason why I'm not so hot on blocking even projectiles in air. It leads to too many "What if?" discussions, as well as too many advantages.

 

[Duck Nation]

So you are saying that a fighting game should be made so that all combos are easy to do and you don't have to practice them?

Your post is incredibly stupid... whoever thinks that grinding out combo practice is a waste of time shouldn't be playing fighting games.

Where did I say the former? Did I actually write anything even remotely close to that? Oh. Gosh. I didn't. And as it turns out, you're one to talk, you illiterate fucker. The only stupidity going on here is entirely on your end.

The only thing super hard combos actually accomplish is preventing people who have other things to do with their lives, like jobs, families and social lives, from being able to compete effectively. It hands the reigns entirely to people who can spend their whole day in training mode grinding out their high damage combos, instead of keeping it where anybody with a good head on their shoulders can be a threat. Require people to make learning combos a full time job and you make a game far more exclusive than it should be. It's a fucking video game. Stop pretending that your ability to perform or learn particularly long/difficult combos makes you some kind of god. I got tired of people like you years ago - you only defend shit like that because you're afraid of what happens if the game is more about smarts than time investment.

Anyways. Now that fuckhead's been dealt with...

Zoidberg747 I was the person who suggested the projectile flight-blocking buff for Hawkgirl, and I am 100% a Deathstroke player. Even if you give that to her, her current worst matches (DS and Sinestro) are frankly still going to be losses for her, but she'd have a fighting chance. As they stand, they're almost unwinnable. She needs it.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Tiger Wong
You want her to block, I read that, however what do you want to happen next? You blocked the zoning, but what can each character do during that post-blocking period?

I believe you may have addressed it, however so far it seems you merely want the ability to block mid-air (among other things, I'm not ignoring them, this one seemed most relevant).

I just want to be able to make a read. That's it. I swear I can figure out the rest. That's all any HG player (hell... ANY player of any character) wants.

If block DS' air gun shot, I can stay in the air and make a read. His air gun shot is -33 on block. I can throw a straight air MT and if he jumps again to try to air shot, it'll hit him. Or I can MC to get closer. Or hell, maybe I can unfly quickly while he shoots another air gun shot and then dash under. Or I'll guess wrong and get shot again with a different shot or he'll dash up and do Sword Flip or that damned J3. I don't care.

I just want a chance to DO SOMETHING while in flight. That's it. Give me a chance to make a read. I swear to god I'll make up for the rest.

I just want a chance. Isn't that all anybody wants? Isn't that why we're all pissed at Superman's F23 and laser bullshit? (Except HG players because she owns that shit) We all just want a chance to make something happen.

Because this is America GOTDAMMIT. And when the odds are against us and it looks like we're gonna fail, we still have life and there's still time on the clock so we can say "If I can hit just parry that entire Chun Li ultra, and punish it like I practiced every day for 5 hours, I can win this fucking match!"

 

[Zoidberg747]

Where did I say the former? Did I actually write anything even remotely close to that? Oh. Gosh. I didn't. And as it turns out, you're one to talk, you illiterate fucker. The only stupidity going on here is entirely on your end.

The only thing super hard combos actually accomplish is preventing people who have other things to do with their lives, like jobs, families and social lives, from being able to compete effectively. It hands the reigns entirely to people who can spend their whole day in training mode grinding out their high damage combos, instead of keeping it where anybody with a good head on their shoulders can be a threat. Require people to make learning combos a full time job and you make a game far more exclusive than it should be. It's a fucking video game. Stop pretending that your ability to perform or learn particularly long/difficult combos makes you some kind of god. I got tired of people like you years ago - you only defend shit like that because you're afraid of what happens if the game is more about smarts than time investment.

Anyways. Now that fuckhead's been dealt with...

Zoidberg747 I was the person who suggested the projectile flight-blocking buff for Hawkgirl, and I am 100% a Deathstroke player. Even if you give that to her, her current worst matches (DS and Sinestro) are frankly still going to be losses for her, but she'd have a fighting chance. As they stand, they're almost unwinnable. She needs it.

She doesnt need it. If they are unwinnable then they need to fix something else, as the blocking in the air will screw up other MUs.

You should never balance a character based on a couple MUs, if she is buffed then those Matches should be easier for her.

 

[Konqrr]

The only thing super hard combos actually accomplish is preventing people who have other things to do with their lives, like jobs, families and social lives, from being able to compete effectively. It hands the reigns entirely to people who can spend their whole day in training mode grinding out their high damage combos, instead of keeping it where anybody with a good head on their shoulders can be a threat. Require people to make learning combos a full time job and you make a game far more exclusive than it should be. It's a fucking video game. Stop pretending that your ability to perform or learn particularly long/difficult combos makes you some kind of god. I got tired of people like you years ago - you only defend shit like that because you're afraid of what happens if the game is more about smarts than time investment.

You want special moves, combos, supers, everything to be easy and hands off then? No practice, just smarts... go play Divekick.

For the record... I have two degrees, a job, house, wife, and four kids. I still have time to train and compete.

Quit being an asshat because someone disagrees with you.

 

[Tiger Wong]

She doesnt need it. If they are unwinnable then they need to fix something else, as the blocking in the air will screw up other MUs.

No it won't.

if she is buffed then those Matches should be easier for her.

Yeah? What if NRS buffs HG's MC to -1 on block? How's that gonna help her matchup problems?
What if they just make B3 29 frames? How's that gonna help her vs Sinestro?

 

[Zoidberg747]

No it won't.



Yeah? What if NRS buffs HG's MC to -1 on block? How's that gonna help her matchup problems?
What if they just make B3 29 frames? How's that gonna help her vs Sinestro?

What if they made her more agile in the air? Enough that she could dodge boulders and air shots easier?

 

[Icy Black Deep]

...(s)he has nothing to defend from air maces

Sure they can defend. It's called "hold back to block". What do you think anyone does against air maces?
But hell, even that's doing it wrong. You should be dashing up and then knocking Hawkgirl out of the sky.

Air blocking would be nice, but honestly I don't see it helping a whole lot; Hawkgirl's still going to be stuck at full screen. She needs mobility to do better in these match-ups.

 

[gdf]

I just want to be able to make a read. That's it. I swear I can figure out the rest. That's all any HG player (hell... ANY player of any character) wants.

If block DS' air gun shot, I can stay in the air and make a read. His air gun shot is -33 on block. I can throw a straight air MT and if he jumps again to try to air shot, it'll hit him. Or I can MC to get closer. Or hell, maybe I can unfly quickly while he shoots another air gun shot and then dash under. Or I'll guess wrong and get shot again with a different shot or he'll dash up and do Sword Flip or that damned J3. I don't care.

Thank you so much for stating this. (The inspirational speech was a nice touch too. lol)

It's because reading, blocking air moves, sounded much worse than it actually was. (Example, adding armor to jump-ins, sounds really bad in theory, probably not that bad in practice.)

So I understand that both characters remain neutral, in the air and on the ground. If you throw a mace down(after you blocking and him landing), DS can block, or if he reads it he can shoot you during the animation? If I understood you correctly. The rest of my post is fluff, I actually would like this paragraph addressed.

That sounds a lot more fair, considering people on forums usually want buffs without consideration (my main concern), I can tell you put a lot of thought into it.

P.S. A little light humor to end my post, don't forget Deathstroke still has his trait.

 

[RunwayMafia]

What if they made her more agile in the air? Enough that she could dodge boulders and air shots easier?

Yes this! I actually want her to have a trait activated air dash.