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SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
I really dont think DD has any cancel from any string to use MB ES as a true blockstring. That sucks. Perhaps 3xMB ES could be a true block string but since i dont play the game at home anymore, i dont know. Could you test it?
I would say it probably is because of the advantage off 3, but I'll get back to you when I actually do test it. I just turned all my stuff off cause I was getting ready to go to bed. But I'll test a bunch of MB ES stuff when I wake up. That was the next thing I wanted to work on.
 

cyke_out

Noob
Lol

Keep upplaying doomsday ......he's fair though by all means but u doomsday up players just suck if u think he rocks
I don't think I've seen anyone declare he is the best in the game. Most DD players are not upplaying him at all, it only looks that way, since everyone else is constantly downplaying him.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Pecka PLEASE shut up on this. Btw i heard you were talking bad about me in some other thread before you got your posts deleted.

I think Doomsday is top 10 easily. He can do whatever he wants against almost any character in the game. Batman is one of the few that can stop him and even then its not so easy.

Black Adam can but its not 7-3. Superman i think will be even once Doomsdays realize how to truly stop his nonsense.

Im willing to play anyone at TFC with my Doomsday to show how dumb he can be at times. By then ill truly be ready with him.
black adam does go 7 3 with doomsday.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Metzos feels the same way?
I think so.

There is no way anybody on earth can convince me this is 6 4, ex lightning alone is 6 4, add in a floaty jump that gives BA the ability to punish venoms with MB divekick + b2 trait into throw being 14% on tech which just wastes time for it to recharge make this 7 3

almost every character in the game falls in a deadzone against BA when they hit sweep distance unless you have a very fast hit confirmable punisher, B2 on whiff is godlike at not being that -
 
I think so.

There is no way anybody on earth can convince me this is 6 4, ex lightning alone is 6 4, add in a floaty jump that gives BA the ability to punish venoms with MB divekick + b2 trait into throw being 14% on tech which just wastes time for it to recharge make this 7 3

almost every character in the game falls in a deadzone against BA when they hit sweep distance unless you have a very fast hit confirmable punisher, B2 on whiff is godlike at not being that -
I'd like a little more explanation, pls

1. Ex Lightning is MB Lightning Strike? It's a good move, + on block and lots of chip. But I don't see how this one move, that's limited by meter, makes it 6:4.

2. Not sure how BA's floaty jump helps him punish Venoms here. You can't jump on reaction to a Venom, and if a Doomsday player is doing Venom to try to beat a jump that's on the way down, all he has to do is hit MB early to get armour and beat the MB Dive.

3. Trait throw is cheap stuff, no doubt, but getting hit by a B2 already means that the Doomsday made a mistake- either he failed to anti air, or he dashed in at the wrong time.

4. At sweep distance, DD gets to do his Venom MB for free pretty much. Why would it be a deadzone for Doomsday?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I'd like a little more explanation, pls

1. Ex Lightning is MB Lightning Strike? It's a good move, + on block and lots of chip. But I don't see how this one move, that's limited by meter, makes it 6:4.

2. Not sure how BA's floaty jump helps him punish Venoms here. You can't jump on reaction to a Venom, and if a Doomsday player is doing Venom to try to beat a jump that's on the way down, all he has to do is hit MB early to get armour and beat the MB Dive.

3. Trait throw is cheap stuff, no doubt, but getting hit by a B2 already means that the Doomsday made a mistake- either he failed to anti air, or he dashed in at the wrong time.

4. At sweep distance, DD gets to do his Venom MB for free pretty much. Why would it be a deadzone for Doomsday?
EX lightning strike pushes back equal to jump distance, +5 on block 6% chip, builds 0.30% of a bar back and is the best keepaway projectile in the game

BAs floaty jump can actually make the huge air hitbox of venoms to not effect him and he can always jump over it because of it on a read and divekick it on whiff to punish for 48%, how many chars do you know that punish doomsday for doing mb venom?

if the DD player doesnt do venom and BA neutral jumps 2 things can happen.

DD MB venom as soon as hes coming down - divekick goes over and they both whiff

DD MB venom as hes dropping in order to bait divekick, BA can block this

if BA meter burns his divekick hes safe anyways and he aint never gonna jump when too close

B2 needs to be just blocked, it rewards you for your opponents good spacing, B2 trait point blank makes one orb hit on block making his throw on hit/tech 2,5% less while if your opp is spaced far enough, the orb is not blocked and leads to more damage.

in that range, DD only has d1 and sweep, its a footsie game where BA has an excelent backdash and guaranteed damage, keepaway and trait recharge time if he touches you while DD has nothing guaranteed.

BA also hugely outdamages him without any meter and its known that adam pisses meter away and is still full of meter

sweep distance mb veonm is a huge ass waste when his D1 can check his opp
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
EX lightning strike pushes back equal to jump distance, +5 on block 6% chip, builds 0.30% of a bar back and is the best keepaway projectile in the game

BAs floaty jump can actually make the huge air hitbox of venoms to not effect him and he can always jump over it because of it on a read and divekick it on whiff to punish for 48%, how many chars do you know that punish doomsday for doing mb venom?

if the DD player doesnt do venom and BA neutral jumps 2 things can happen.

DD MB venom as soon as hes coming down - divekick goes over and they both whiff

DD MB venom as hes dropping in order to bait divekick, BA can block this

if BA meter burns his divekick hes safe anyways and he aint never gonna jump when too close

B2 needs to be just blocked, it rewards you for your opponents good spacing, B2 trait point blank makes one orb hit on block making his throw on hit/tech 2,5% less while if your opp is spaced far enough, the orb is not blocked and leads to more damage.

in that range, DD only has d1 and sweep, its a footsie game where BA has an excelent backdash and guaranteed damage, keepaway and trait recharge time if he touches you while DD has nothing guaranteed.

BA also hugely outdamages him without any meter and its known that adam pisses meter away and is still full of meter

sweep distance mb veonm is a huge ass waste when his D1 can check his opp
I agree with you on pretty much everything, but I don't think these things effect DD to the point of the MU being a 3-7. I think it's 4-6, but a pretty bad one. I don't really think there are any characters that Adam beats as bad as 7-3 except for Grundy, and if they just made WC grab a couple of his strings it probably woudln't be that bad.
 
I think a lot of these points assume that Doomsday needs to do out of range Venoms and jumps in order to move in. I used to think that way too, and I found the match up really hard.

Just lately, however, I've been starting to find that Doomsday really doesn't need to do any of that to move in on BA's zoning. Regular lightning and Black magic can be blocked on reaction, are -ve on block, and don't have much push back. So walking forward and block-dashing against BA's zoning is actually a very stable way for Doomsday to approach BA. When he's close enough, BA can't react to Venom MBs, and that's where Doomsday starts pushing BA into the corner where the match turns to DD's favour.
Also, BA doesn't have easy escape options against a walking Doomsday- Dive kicks will be blocked an punished and ex dive kicks... well you're not going to get that much meter if Doomsday isn't getting hit.

This 'walk-in' strategy is very much a work in progress for me, but I do think (for now) that it pushes the match up towards 5-5.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I think a lot of these points assume that Doomsday needs to do out of range Venoms and jumps in order to move in. I used to think that way too, and I found the match up really hard.

Just lately, however, I've been starting to find that Doomsday really doesn't need to do any of that to move in on BA's zoning. Regular lightning and Black magic can be blocked on reaction, are -ve on block, and don't have much push back. So walking forward and block-dashing against BA's zoning is actually a very stable way for Doomsday to approach BA. When he's close enough, BA can't react to Venom MBs, and that's where Doomsday starts pushing BA into the corner where the match turns to DD's favour.
Also, BA doesn't have easy escape options against a walking Doomsday- Dive kicks will be blocked an punished and ex dive kicks... well you're not going to get that much meter if Doomsday isn't getting hit.

This 'walk-in' strategy is very much a work in progress for me, but I do think (for now) that it pushes the match up towards 5-5.
BA will not stay stationary, black magic wont be used at all vs doomsday and ex lightning will always prevent you getting in. when DD dashes BA can react to that dash with B2 trait to throw and youre out again because youre not only send away to jump distance, BA also gets a free long as my dick backdash thats puts DD almost fullscreen again. consider the ridiculous chip from the zoning and BAs ability to instantly get you back out anywhere on the screen and its very difficult, mb venom is not even an option on block because BA literally always has meter, pushblock will trade bars while Adam only needs half a bar for ex lightning and builds almost half a bar form 1 lightning alone.


ex lightning = 2 options, jump or dash, ex lightning beats dashing in

jumping can be baited and punished while ex lightning can only be punished if you jump the damn thing or prematurely venom because if done at the same time ex lightning beats mb venom

its a hell to get in, BA has a GTFO me move every 8 seconds which is a free recharge everytime he hits you with it, excelent zoning that chips you so bad, ways to bait every damn thing DD can do, an excelent backdash and on top of that frametraps that will always make DD end up in jump distance even if he makes the right read.

and DD is designed as a cumulative damage character who in turn is given excelent tools that mean all are in his pressure when he enters 3/4 screen, it just doesnt work against BA when he is so safe and has ways to keep you away for days with a so broken design that can rushdown, zone and counterzone at the same time.

divekick and ex divekick dont even matter in his game, theyre whiff punishing tools for those who have the tools to partialy or totally avoid his zoning/counterzoning, they are no longer tools to get in for free or divekick 24/7 for a chip out win vs character who were unable to punish even his backdash after it prepatch.

divekick will always be EX and there will never be a downside to throwing it out unless youre one of 2-3 chars in this game.

you also have to think that BA is never stationary, his backdash is better than your forward dash and he will be moving as well, his mobility is a huge problem.

Keepaway, mobility, GTFO me moves, trait, frametraps, fullscreen frametraps and check, lightning bombs. I have been playing this matchup since launch, I know it inside out, buffs will not fix this matchup because when BA can zone, he does it better than anyone depending on the matchup, he is not a character that uses projectiles to check you, hes a character that uses projectiles because of the fuck you factor, building meter insanely fast and VS doomsday there is almost no way to check him for it, let alone punish him. I play and know this matchup too damn well to lose anytime i dont get majorly outplayed

you can make a case for 6-4, but does it really look like "slight advantage"? slight advantage is not a loss, its small difficulties that anyone can overcome, now tell me this is not doomsday losing to black adam but a slight advantage against him. even Joker8417 who is against my 7 3 thinks this would be 6.5-3.5 if i interpreted his post correctly

doomsday is a machine that NEEDS to be able to get in for free and was designed on this principle, he faces major problems when counters to his venom arise along with the ability to outdamage, outzone and keep him away just from a simple d1 trait along with the best mobility ingame.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
overall, DD is one of the best characters because 99% of his bad matchups are 4 6 which is ridiculously winnable and it makes him an excelent char, against black adam, who has tons of tools that like 4 chars could be based around but in one package, he loses pretty bad. in my eyes its his only 7 3 and his worst matchup because it goes against the fundamental way he plays. it is winnable but you have to be in the black adams players mind, i think it is one of the matchups where the BA player must have over 75 ( mentally retarded point ) IQ to play it properly.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
overall, DD is one of the best characters because 99% of his bad matchups are 4 6 which is ridiculously winnable and it makes him an excelent char, against black adam, who has tons of tools that like 4 chars could be based around but in one package, he loses pretty bad. in my eyes its his only 7 3 and his worst matchup because it goes against the fundamental way he plays. it is winnable but you have to be in the black adams players mind, i think it is one of the matchups where the BA player must have over 75 ( mentally retarded point ) IQ to play it properly.
The only reason i questioned if it was 7-3 is because it cames from peckapowa's mouth

Anything that comes from him is 100% questioned and not believed by anyone
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
BA will not stay stationary, black magic wont be used at all vs doomsday and ex lightning will always prevent you getting in. when DD dashes BA can react to that dash with B2 trait to throw and youre out again because youre not only send away to jump distance, BA also gets a free long as my dick backdash thats puts DD almost fullscreen again. consider the ridiculous chip from the zoning and BAs ability to instantly get you back out anywhere on the screen and its very difficult, mb venom is not even an option on block because BA literally always has meter, pushblock will trade bars while Adam only needs half a bar for ex lightning and builds almost half a bar form 1 lightning alone.


ex lightning = 2 options, jump or dash, ex lightning beats dashing in

jumping can be baited and punished while ex lightning can only be punished if you jump the damn thing or prematurely venom because if done at the same time ex lightning beats mb venom

its a hell to get in, BA has a GTFO me move every 8 seconds which is a free recharge everytime he hits you with it, excelent zoning that chips you so bad, ways to bait every damn thing DD can do, an excelent backdash and on top of that frametraps that will always make DD end up in jump distance even if he makes the right read.

and DD is designed as a cumulative damage character who in turn is given excelent tools that mean all are in his pressure when he enters 3/4 screen, it just doesnt work against BA when he is so safe and has ways to keep you away for days with a so broken design that can rushdown, zone and counterzone at the same time.

divekick and ex divekick dont even matter in his game, theyre whiff punishing tools for those who have the tools to partialy or totally avoid his zoning/counterzoning, they are no longer tools to get in for free or divekick 24/7 for a chip out win vs character who were unable to punish even his backdash after it prepatch.

divekick will always be EX and there will never be a downside to throwing it out unless youre one of 2-3 chars in this game.

you also have to think that BA is never stationary, his backdash is better than your forward dash and he will be moving as well, his mobility is a huge problem.

Keepaway, mobility, GTFO me moves, trait, frametraps, fullscreen frametraps and check, lightning bombs. I have been playing this matchup since launch, I know it inside out, buffs will not fix this matchup because when BA can zone, he does it better than anyone depending on the matchup, he is not a character that uses projectiles to check you, hes a character that uses projectiles because of the fuck you factor, building meter insanely fast and VS doomsday there is almost no way to check him for it, let alone punish him. I play and know this matchup too damn well to lose anytime i dont get majorly outplayed

you can make a case for 6-4, but does it really look like "slight advantage"? slight advantage is not a loss, its small difficulties that anyone can overcome, now tell me this is not doomsday losing to black adam but a slight advantage against him. even Joker8417 who is against my 7 3 thinks this would be 6.5-3.5 if i interpreted his post correctly

doomsday is a machine that NEEDS to be able to get in for free and was designed on this principle, he faces major problems when counters to his venom arise along with the ability to outdamage, outzone and keep him away just from a simple d1 trait along with the best mobility ingame.
I would say yes either 6-4, or 6.5-3.5 range. I don't see it being as bad as Grundy though which I believe to be 7-3.