Who is the most defensive character in MKX?

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Dick's law: given enough time, any thread on TYM will result in two NW mains arguing.

Hahahahahahahaha. I laughed out loud at this. Was phosferrax a NW main?

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Hahahahahahahaha. I laughed out loud at this. Was phosferrax a NW main?

I thought so, I may be wrong though

 

[Israel]

Lao, because hes a lao. Also because he is a kung lao..

Reasons
-7f Spin:
Anti-Airs- This move is designed to stop jump ins and cross ups (if timed right) since mk9 days. Do u know how hard it is to approach someone if you know your jump ins are limited?
Counter poke- This move also can hit ppl who like to use low pokes such as d4.....since mk9 days. so combine this with anti-airing on a consistant basis, makes a strong defense WHILE being offensive. (before anyone disagrees with this, the KL player i use to play actually used this tactic. Just because the kl's u may not, doesnt mean it cant be done.

Air mobility- As stated by previous players above, just simply jumping back does a lot for him. Because jump back 2 reaches far. And he also has dive kick. If he wanted, he can just jump back..and dive kick to hit wiffing opponents...and combo potential also, in corner....since mk9 days. How does this apply to defense? simple...because once ur feet leaves the ground, ur opponent is gonna think twice about approaching/moving and/or pressing a button.

....he has a orbital hat - self explanatory.

If u dont belives hes the most defensive, fine. but hes definately up there. This shaolin warrior was designed to be all around in almost every aspect. So even the topic was about "Whos the most tactical....offensive..whatever?" and theres a voting poll?, yes, HE WILL BE IN THERE. dont deny that.. *cough, to you upset Kung lao players...

 

[TamedLizard]

If it weren't for his sickly backdash, I'd vote Reptile tbh.

 

[Phosferrax]

Not everyone can be in the lab while they are on TYM 100% of the time but I'm glad we resolved this. Reversal throw is best option I suppose and I always forget about that. Let's not say "go for the trade" because honestly that is not a viable strategy if going by the same logic that deems Kang infinite a real infinite.

But everyone can lab before they talk, which seemingly very few people on TYM actually do.

You're clutching at thin air. Kang used to actually infinite these characters in the corner in the situation you're describing when his b12 fbrc was legit. Attempting to apply the same logic to Cassie's d3 is just misguided.

Now that b12 fbrc isn't plus, attempting to apply an incorrect logic to Cassie's d3 is redundant. I don't know what point you were trying to make, or why you thought the point should be made when it stems from an incorrect idea. On top of that, trying to compare Cassie's d3 to Kangs block pressure in a vacuum of numbers has me stratching my head.

Even if the two are numerically difficult to get out of (when in reality they aren't) one is at most a set of 3 d3's with a meta behind it, whilst the other is launching, heavily chipping lockdown pressure until one specific instance.

 

[Notez4]

MKX is a turn based fighter.

wouldnt that imply that there are no frametraps or plus frames anything?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

But everyone can lab before they talk, which seemingly very few people on TYM actually do.

You're clutching at thin air. Kang used to actually infinite these characters in the corner in the situation you're describing when his b12 fbrc was legit. Attempting to apply the same logic to Cassie's d3 is just misguided.

Now that b12 fbrc isn't plus, attempting to apply an incorrect logic to Cassie's d3 is redundant. I don't know what point you were trying to make, or why you thought the point should be made when it stems from an incorrect idea. On top of that, trying to compare Cassie's d3 to Kangs block pressure in a vacuum of numbers has me stratching my head.

Even if the two are numerically difficult to get out of (when in reality they aren't) one is at most a set of 3 d3's with a meta behind it, whilst the other is launching, heavily chipping lockdown pressure until one specific instance.

When the logic fairy and Spock had a kid, you must have popped out.

The hilarity of my comparison was supposed to be humerous. That went over your head so far (you must get that from your dad) you tried to come in and correct me.

What I wasn't saying is that d3 is an infinite.

After some lab time just now, I was able to poke out 1 time in 20 tries. Ironically, Kang's 12 frame d4 low profiles her d3. This game is not about math at all my friend.

Lighten up, have a drink and relax. It's Christmas

 

[Arzumis]

Lao needs a command grab.
Oh wait....

 

[Phosferrax]

Dick's law: given enough time, any thread on TYM will result in two NW mains arguing.

I'm insulted by that insinuation

 

[Phosferrax]

When the logic fairy and Spock had a kid, you must have popped out.

The hilarity of my comparison was supposed to be humerous. That went over your head so far (you must get that from your dad) you tried to come in and correct me.

What I wasn't saying is that d3 is an infinite.

After some lab time just now, I was able to poke out 1 time in 20 tries. Ironically, Kang's 12 frame d4 low profiles her d3. This game is not about math at all my friend.

Lighten up, have a drink and relax. It's Christmas

You know what they say about comedy writing and the Internet. You may have saved time and said that at the start.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Against Lao, perhaps. Your air hurt box is so small that you can get around it more easily.

Other characters with lesser tools can really struggle against good iags.

1) anyone who doesn't ball up in the air
2) anyone with a slow startup projectile

Being at a disadvantage is not a huge deal when you have ex flip kick and your also full screen. It's not punishable. Sounds like Lao is spoiling you a little

Well let me put it this way:

If I were (Character) I would:

Kitana - duck and throw a ground fan you have to respect
Kano - throw a knife
Predator - Shoot lasers
Sub Zero - either slide, throw an ice ball back, or basically do what ever
Mileena - Tele kick/ball roll/low sai
Tanya - Tonfa
Liu - Low fireball
Quan - Duck and rune
Tremor - duck and overhead rock
Reptile - Duck & acid spit or ball, or if close enough slide
Jacqui (FA) duck and machine gun
Ermac - any trade with soulball (not as likely but definitely needs to be respected more so)

You get the idea. Lao hasnt spoiled me, I'm talking from a technical standpoint, air gun shots suck. Grounded projectiles are just better than air ones in this game. Only exception is Kitana.

Literally all of those options are either more likely to hit, or give more than instant air guns.

Perhaps Cassie players like the idea of instant air guns because the grounded gun actually sucks more, so I guess that could be a thing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Well let me put it this way:

If I were (Character) I would:

Kitana - duck and throw a ground fan you have to respect
Kano - throw a knife
Predator - Shoot lasers
Sub Zero - either slide, throw an ice ball back, or basically do what ever
Mileena - Tele kick/ball roll/low sai
Tanya - Tonfa
Liu - Low fireball
Quan - Duck and rune
Tremor - duck and overhead rock
Reptile - Duck & acid spit or ball, or if close enough slide
Jacqui (FA) duck and machine gun
Ermac - any trade with soulball (not as likely but definitely needs to be respected more so)

You get the idea. Lao hasnt spoiled me, I'm talking from a technical standpoint, air gun shots suck. Grounded projectiles are just better than air ones in this game. Only exception is Kitana.

Literally all of those options are either more likely to hit, or give more than instant air guns.

Perhaps Cassie players like the idea of instant air guns because the grounded gun actually sucks more, so I guess that could be a thing.

@AK XEN0M0RPH do instant air guns suck? Why or why not?

 

[Laos_boy]

Ill touch on kitana.

Mournful has better wake ups and reversal since they are safer.
But RS gets 5% more damage.

She has a 10f mid but lacks some range.

Her d1 is only +3 in hit and -10 in block. But d1 Shadow kick is a true block string and -6.

Grab is honestly her best reversal.

Her walk back is pretty good.

The damage she gets if you fuck up is pretty good.

Float is a great offensive defense option.

And b3 is under utilized to low profile.

Kitana sucks.

 

[OFIDYAN]

Besides sub, who may seem like an obvious choice, I want to know who the community thinks defines this play style the best. This isn't a "who is the best character poll" btw. I do not want rush down or 50/50s or corner carry or frame traps to be considered.

Please consider the following

When opponent is close
1) reversals
2) armor
3) pressure escape

When opponent is far or in footsie range
4) space control-normals and safe specials
5) zoning

If your choice is variation specific, please specify.

Blood God Kotal and GM Sub for sure take the cake. There's no one else I can think of that really gains anything from being defensive. MKX time should be set to 60 seconds if we really want to see some defense

 

[ExoticAbuse]

She may not be the BEST defensive character but Mileena (Piercing) is pretty decent.

• Solid fullscreen zoning with Low Sai which also works as a counter zoning tool.
  
• Great AAs with Ball Roll, U3, B1, B3, Tele-Kick, Air Sai.
• Great oki and anti armour with F12 which can lead into a full combo punish.
• Great whiff punishing with B1, F2 and Ball Roll.
  
• D3 being her best poking tool being 10f on start-up.
• Decent block pressure.

 

[God Confirm]

When the logic fairy and Spock had a kid, you must have popped out.

The hilarity of my comparison was supposed to be humerous. That went over your head so far (you must get that from your dad) you tried to come in and correct me.

What I wasn't saying is that d3 is an infinite.

After some lab time just now, I was able to poke out 1 time in 20 tries. Ironically, Kang's 12 frame d4 low profiles her d3. This game is not about math at all my friend.

Lighten up, have a drink and relax. It's Christmas

you were most definitely saying D3 was a block infinite and you argued it extremely passionately and are only now saying that it's not and you were joking after being undeniably proved wrong

You can't use the "lighten up guys cmon it's Christmas" at the end, everything was pretty light, your posts were the opposite of lighthearted , look at some of the statements you made:

That's the point. Kang has a 9 frame d1 as his fastest poke. If Cassie does d3 over and over, kang can't do shit if in the corner.

It's terribly shitty and those who disagree just flat out lack the MU exp

But since your so fucking wise, why don't you tell me how those things are not true

Just joking tho, right? You even said yourself that it wasn't "technically an infinite" and right there is where you should have stopped and admitted everything Phos had said so far was 100% correct because he did not once say that Cassies D3 or any other good poke for that matter isn't a good button against Kang a character who is balanced around having shitty pokes. He just that calling it an infinite is completely incorrect and shows unwillingness to lab.

The fact that when you did lab it and you found multiple ways out on top of what Phos suggested just does confirms this.


Also, saying that you were only able to poke out 1/20 times implying that it's really hard is just flat out misleading and trying to save face, it's equally hard for the Cassie player, they have to nail the D3 D3 timing as well you only have to match their timing. In fact, if you could beat out a perfectly executed poke of her block infinite that means that you have an extra frame of leniency on her and still get a trade. To quote your own words on the exact same situation except whennit benefit your argument:

If Kang inputs a frame too early b1 doesn't even come out. A frame too late and 8 frame moves or faster can beat it clean.

It goes both ways

I didn't even want to participate in this silly argument and I'm just commenting as an onlooker, I'm saying this so you are aware of how you look after doing this shit so hopefully you don't do it again next time. Stuff like this is what sends a forum down the shitter

 

[Rude]

Again...agreed as my bigger point is that when I said "sounds familiar" I was referring to the Liu Kang infinites against the cast which he didn't actually do either.

No one should throw around the word infinite. But since we opened up the can of worms, let's discuss.

Cassie d3 can be jumped? Ok great fucking idea lmao it recovers on whiff fast enough to flip kick you for full combo.

It has more advantage huh? How much and is it enough to get out another d1 before her d3 comes out again? I don't remember the adv frames exactly but I don't think it is. Even if you trade your d1 is too slow to get it out again consecutively. Her d3 will win.

Her d3 beats armor
Her d3 beats jumps
Her d3 beats counter pokes

The only reliable way I have seen to get out is mid screen and walking back. But since your so fucking wise, why don't you tell me how those things are not true. But I'll do you a favor and not use the word infinite since that isn't technically what this is. What it is, is providing her all options while providing you with none.

Serious question: Couldn't you throw her poke?

No, really. This has happened in my matches, and I remember there being a thread about this. If timed correctly, a throw can beat a poke.

Could you use that?

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Serious question: Couldn't you throw her poke?

No, really. This has happened in my matches, and I remember there being a thread about this. If timed correctly, a throw can beat a poke.

Could you use that?

im curious about throws beating beating pokes too. is there a thread about it somewhere? Im just wondering how the properties work with poke vs throw because i do it all the time.

 

[Ninequads93]

Breh special forces Sonya

Your opp is plus? Who gives a shit call drone and chill

 

[honeybooboo]

Sooo i voted quan . . .

 

[Undergroundepict]

I think Jax could also do pretty good from a defensive standpoint. I just don't know if has a variation he could play staying away from you maybe. I guess either "Pumped Up" or "Heavy Weapons". He has decent buttons. On wakeup, he can either armor and stay relatively safe with dash punch or go for Gotcha grab and if you picked "Wrestler" then there is also the threat of command grab on wakeup. (Is ex wrestler grab armored?) Just seems like he has the tools to stay in the game when getting pressured or Oki'd .

I'm actually quite infamous for playing "that keepaway Jax." Pumped Up offers some unique zoning tools that work very well in conjunction with one another in Energy Wave, Ground Pound, and Air Ground Pound. Dash Punch works very well on people attempting to run in without blocking, while Downward Dash Punch catches people trying to duck my Dash Punch and Energy Wave.

I have mined a lot of salt out of people who feel that "you aren't supposed to play Jax that way."

It's not Quan Chi quality zoning, but when combined with Jax's other tools, it is nice to have.

And yes, he has a plethora of awesome wakeups, almost all of which are either safe or at the very low end of punishable.


That said, his defensive options pale in comparison to most of the other characters mentioned in this thread.

 

[NaCl man]

FF kang has top armor move, a parry, great back walk, solid Anti air and 10% fireballs and good footsies. He's the Ryu of this game in that variation and his best playstyle is defensive since the nerf to WP various times. If he had a faster poke it would complete him.

I agree 100%

 

[Demon_0]

Unbreakable anyone? EX Ice Burst has armor and launches for follow up combos and the parry isn't as useless as people make it seem. Not to mention the EX Ice Aura which nullifies chip damage and reduces regular damage quite a bit. Hands down the best defensive variation for me, Kotal's Blood God being a close second.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

you were most definitely saying D3 was a block infinite and you argued it extremely passionately and are only now saying that it's not and you were joking after being undeniably proved wrong

You can't use the "lighten up guys cmon it's Christmas" at the end, everything was pretty light, your posts were the opposite of lighthearted , look at some of the statements you made:





Just joking tho, right? You even said yourself that it wasn't "technically an infinite" and right there is where you should have stopped and admitted everything Phos had said so far was 100% correct because he did not once say that Cassies D3 or any other good poke for that matter isn't a good button against Kang a character who is balanced around having shitty pokes. He just that calling it an infinite is completely incorrect and shows unwillingness to lab.

The fact that when you did lab it and you found multiple ways out on top of what Phos suggested just does confirms this.


Also, saying that you were only able to poke out 1/20 times implying that it's really hard is just flat out misleading and trying to save face, it's equally hard for the Cassie player, they have to nail the D3 D3 timing as well you only have to match their timing. In fact, if you could beat out a perfectly executed poke of her block infinite that means that you have an extra frame of leniency on her and still get a trade. To quote your own words on the exact same situation except whennit benefit your argument:




I didn't even want to participate in this silly argument and I'm just commenting as an onlooker, I'm saying this so you are aware of how you look after doing this shit so hopefully you don't do it again next time. Stuff like this is what sends a forum down the shitter

Lmao. Your analysis is flawless.

Slow clap

My first post was an inside joke to the Kang community. You missed that and so did others. Whatev

Phos tried to call me out and called me an idiot so I played it out with the same tone he used.

Look at it however you like but you do not understand and that's fine. Merry Christmas.

 

[Tweedy]

Lao, because hes a lao. Also because he is a kung lao..

Reasons
-7f Spin:
Anti-Airs- This move is designed to stop jump ins and cross ups (if timed right) since mk9 days. Do u know how hard it is to approach someone if you know your jump ins are limited?
Counter poke- This move also can hit ppl who like to use low pokes such as d4.....since mk9 days. so combine this with anti-airing on a consistant basis, makes a strong defense WHILE being offensive. (before anyone disagrees with this, the KL player i use to play actually used this tactic. Just because the kl's u may not, doesnt mean it cant be done.

Air mobility- As stated by previous players above, just simply jumping back does a lot for him. Because jump back 2 reaches far. And he also has dive kick. If he wanted, he can just jump back..and dive kick to hit wiffing opponents...and combo potential also, in corner....since mk9 days. How does this apply to defense? simple...because once ur feet leaves the ground, ur opponent is gonna think twice about approaching/moving and/or pressing a button.

....he has a orbital hat - self explanatory.

If u dont belives hes the most defensive, fine. but hes definately up there. This shaolin warrior was designed to be all around in almost every aspect. So even the topic was about "Whos the most tactical....offensive..whatever?" and theres a voting poll?, yes, HE WILL BE IN THERE. dont deny that.. *cough, to you upset Kung lao players...

Well I don't agree with him being up there for "most defensive", but your first statements definitely sum up the thinking of everyone who voted for him.

Who is this Kung Lao who counterpoked D4 with spin? I'm assuming you mean EX spin? Either way, we're talking about a move that's extremely negative. You can counterpoke with basically any other armored launcher in the game, just like Lao's do with EX spin. Acting like it's some kind of special perk that Lao has, is nonsense.

This is almost as ridiculous as a status I read one time, that claimed that Lao cannot be pressured or damaged. Is there any point in making threads like these, if everyone is just gonna go after Kung Lao, regardless of the topic? The character is clearly not a top "defensive" character. There are many moves in the game that are much more unbalanced than spin, by itself, and most of those characters also have better pokes.

EX rekkas, multiple hits, can be staggered, is safe. Tanya also has a 7 frame poke, Lao does not.

EX punchwalk. multiple hits, multiple hits of armor, is safe. Goro has 6 frame pokes that aren't that minus, Lao does not.

EX shatter, plus on block armored launcher.

EX flipkick, a frame faster than spin, safe on block, Casse has 7 frame pokes, Lao does not.

Lets not forget that Cassie also has a jump back 2 that's almost as good as Lao's, and a 6 frame jump 1 to save her in close AA encounters, that Lao doesn't have. That, her pokes, flipkick being undeniably superior to spin, etc, makes her a better defensive character.

But again, Kung Lao is Kung Lao. If he gets nerfed to bottom tier, he'd still be the best on TYM.