Who is the most defensive character in MKX?

[STRYKIE]

7 frame s1 > 8 frame s1,
6 frame s2 > 9 frame s2,
7 frame d3 - 1 on block yea yea its - 1 or 0 not - 3 > 13 frame d3 - 5 on block,
safe 6 frame armor lmao > unsafe 7 frame armor,
best deffense in the game has cassie free and she has one of the best offense too and also this bitch has smallest hitbox in the game , and in this game a bunch of other characters who has better deffense and offense than Lao actually. lmao this ppl

How long is this whole "the frame data on this move is actually this because..... I said so" fad gonna continue for on TYM?

 

[Genei Jin]

mourning jade, i mean kitana

 

[God Confirm]

Glad to see Scorp is in second on the poll, between Ninjutsu and Hellfire he deserves it
Kotal and especially Quan should most definitely be higher.

Can someone explain to me why anyone would vote for Liu? I know he's got a dope uppercut to cover his lack of air normals, but aside from that he's got some of the slowest pokes in the game, nothing special as far as armour goes, and his reach with normals is pretty mediocre. He's got a great projectile game but for the most part, DF seems like it's possibly the most offensive character in the game other than Cage, with adequate defense tools and a sick projectile game to cover his ass

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

This is just incorrect.

It is -3 on block.

Ok so -3 means a 9 frame d1 hits on the 7th frame which grants a trade in her favor.

Your statement is just incorrect

 

[God Confirm]

Ok so -3 means a 9 frame d1 hits on the 7th frame which grants a trade in her favor.

Your statement is just incorrect

What? You said her D3 is a infinite on Kang, not that she has options after it

Most characters have options after a blocked poke

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

What? You said her D3 is a infinite on Kang, not that she has options after it

Most characters have options after a blocked poke

That's the point. Kang has a 9 frame d1 as his fastest poke. If Cassie does d3 over and over, kang can't do shit if in the corner.

FF might be the only one who can escape with armor too.

Other variations can try fbf4 (low profiled)
Db2 (low profiled)
Bf2 (low profiled)
It's terribly shitty and those who disagree just flat out lack the MU exp

 

[God Confirm]

Wait what am i missing here

D3 gets blocked, Cassie is -3, then 3 frames later she goes for another 7f poke, isnt that 10 frames LK gets to use a 9f move?

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

takes one frame to unblock so maybe a trade

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Wait what am i missing here

D3 gets blocked, Cassie is -3, then 3 frames later she goes for another 7f poke, isnt that 10 frames LK gets to use a 9f move?

takes one frame to unblock so maybe a trade

Yea in her favor. That's the point

 

[Phosferrax]

Ok so -3 means a 9 frame d1 hits on the 7th frame which grants a trade in her favor.

Your statement is just incorrect

Liu Kang, Milenna, Sub Zero and Tremor are the only characters that have a fastest low poke at 9 frames. All of they're d1's grant more hit advantage than Cassie's d3, so the trade is not in her favour.

Never mind that Cassie's d3 has push back on block or is a low that can be jumped.

Stating that her d3 is an infinite on anybody is just idiotic and shows you haven't thought about it outside of looking at start up frames.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I thought the point of getting an instant air projectile was that your opponent HAD to to block. Is that incorrect? You can still dodge them with enough recovery to punish?

Instant air projectiles are to stop people from going to the air.

The reward she gets from it is next to nothing. You can just duck it and then she's automatically put herself at disadvantage.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Liu Kang, Milenna, Sub Zero and Tremor are the only characters that have a fastest low poke at 9 frames. All of they're d1's grant more hit advantage than Cassie's d3, so the trade is not in her favour.

Never mind that Cassie's d3 has push back on block or is a low that can be jumped.

Stating that her d3 is an infinite on anybody is just idiotic and shows you haven't thought about it outside of looking at start up frames.

Again...agreed as my bigger point is that when I said "sounds familiar" I was referring to the Liu Kang infinites against the cast which he didn't actually do either.

No one should throw around the word infinite. But since we opened up the can of worms, let's discuss.

Cassie d3 can be jumped? Ok great fucking idea lmao it recovers on whiff fast enough to flip kick you for full combo.

It has more advantage huh? How much and is it enough to get out another d1 before her d3 comes out again? I don't remember the adv frames exactly but I don't think it is. Even if you trade your d1 is too slow to get it out again consecutively. Her d3 will win.

Her d3 beats armor
Her d3 beats jumps
Her d3 beats counter pokes

The only reliable way I have seen to get out is mid screen and walking back. But since your so fucking wise, why don't you tell me how those things are not true. But I'll do you a favor and not use the word infinite since that isn't technically what this is. What it is, is providing her all options while providing you with none.

 

[Phosferrax]

Again...agreed as my bigger point is that when I said "sounds familiar" I was referring to the Liu Kang infinites against the cast which he didn't actually do either.

No one should throw around the word infinite. But since we opened up the can of worms, let's discuss.

Cassie d3 can be jumped? Ok great fucking idea lmao it recovers on whiff fast enough to flip kick you for full combo.

It has more advantage huh? How much and is it enough to get out another d1 before her d3 comes out again? I don't remember the adv frames exactly but I don't think it is. Even if you trade your d1 is too slow to get it out again consecutively. Her d3 will win.

Her d3 beats armor
Her d3 beats jumps
Her d3 beats counter pokes

The only reliable way I have seen to get out is mid screen and walking back. But since your so fucking wise, why don't you tell me how those things are not true. But I'll do you a favor and not use the word infinite since that isn't technically what this is. What it is, is providing her all options while providing you with none.

Omg that is so stupid.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Instant air projectiles are to stop people from going to the air.

The reward she gets from it is next to nothing. You can just duck it and then she's automatically put herself at disadvantage.

Against Lao, perhaps. Your air hurt box is so small that you can get around it more easily.

Other characters with lesser tools can really struggle against good iags.

1) anyone who doesn't ball up in the air
2) anyone with a slow startup projectile

Being at a disadvantage is not a huge deal when you have ex flip kick and your also full screen. It's not punishable. Sounds like Lao is spoiling you a little

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Omg that is so stupid.

How. if I'm wrong explain it to me. You have only told me I'm an idiot, I haven't looked into this, and that it's not an infinite.

You haven't actually added anything of value at all to this.

 

[Phosferrax]

How. if I'm wrong explain it to me. You have only told me I'm an idiot, I haven't looked into this, and that it's not an infinite.

You haven't actually added anything of value at all to this.

I've already told you if you trade a d1 with her d1 then you are at advantage, and she is at enough disadvantage that she can't poke again to beat a follow up poke.

It also has pushback on block so can't just keep doing it, and you're the one that brought up 'infinite', as well as that passive aggressive tone.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I've already told you if you trade a d1 with her d1 then you are at advantage, and she is at enough disadvantage that she can't poke again to beat a follow up poke.

ok what is the advantage then...since you have obviously tested what are the numbers?

It also has pushback on block so can't just keep doing it, and you're the one that brought up 'infinite', as well as that passive aggressive tone.

Ok so since you have obviously tested it, how many times can she do it before it whiffs? I may be being passive agressive but that was after you said this

Stating that her d3 is an infinite on anybody is just idiotic and shows you haven't thought about it outside of looking at start up frames.

You want to be a dick? I'll be a dick.

 

[XAO]

IA on hardest

 

[Phosferrax]

ok what is the advantage then...since you have obviously tested what are the numbers?

Ok so since you have obviously tested it, how many times can she do it before it whiffs? I may be being passive agressive but that was after you said this

You want to be a dick? I'll be a dick.

3 times from 100% close as possible and she is out of d3 range.

Cassie's 7f d3 is +13 on hit. Of those 4, Tremor is the only one who can't d1 again if they trade to beat another d3 poke cleanly. But everyone can reversal throw after the initial poke to beat a follow up.

You can be a dick when you talk sense and actually test stuff before you post.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

I voted for Tanya because the best defense is a good offense, right?

I see you are speaking your opinion in threads now israfel....Even though your opinion didn't matter, i allowed to you to speak your opinion

 

[Israfel]

I see you are speaking your opinion in threads now israfel....Even though your opinion didn't matter, i allowed to you to speak your opinion

Now I have 2 thread stalkers....You and @Kingshootahz

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

3 times from 100% close as possible and she is out of d3 range.

Cassie's 7f d3 is +13 on hit. Of those 4, Tremor is the only one who can't d1 again if they trade to beat another d3 poke cleanly. But everyone can reversal throw after the initial poke to beat a follow up.

You can be a dick when you talk sense and actually test stuff before you post.

Was that so hard? Listen...I was trying to make the comparison to Kang infinite because I know that neither of them are. You jumped in guns blazing because "someone was wrong on the Internet".

Congrats. Your a fucking hero.

Not everyone can be in the lab while they are on TYM 100% of the time but I'm glad we resolved this. Reversal throw is best option I suppose and I always forget about that. Let's not say "go for the trade" because honestly that is not a viable strategy if going by the same logic that deems Kang infinite a real infinite.

Frame perfect reversal d1 into another d1 attempt where a hundred other reads could end you up in the same position. D3 is a problem for those characters and is annoying. Final point.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Was that so hard? Listen...I was trying to make the comparison to Kang infinite because I know that neither of them are. You jumped in guns blazing because "someone was wrong on the Internet".

Congrats. Your a fucking hero.

Not everyone can be in the lab while they are on TYM 100% of the time but I'm glad we resolved this. Reversal throw is best option I suppose and I always forget about that. Let's not say "go for the trade" because honestly that is not a viable strategy if going by the same logic that deems Kang infinite a real infinite.

Frame perfect reversal d1 into another d1 attempt where a hundred other reads could end you up in the same position. D3 is a problem for those characters and is annoying. Final point.

I don't get it, why is that considered to not be an infinite? Am i missing something? (Sorry if i seem a bit ignorant i don't play liu that much)
Edit: I meant" liu kang's known to be not an infinite infinite"

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I don't get it, why is that considered to not be an infinite? Am i missing something? (Sorry if i seem a bit ignorant i don't play liu that much)
Edit: I meant" liu kang's known to be not an infinite infinite"

Because you can trade a d1 or uppercut after b12. Plus frames are meter dependent. And many characters can easily escape. It's only 4 that struggle.

The comparison was meant to be humerus and tounge in cheek but some people...

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Dick's law: given enough time, any thread on TYM will result in two NW mains arguing.