Gonzo Dolo
Noob
That 5% recovery from ice aura sound really great and reasonable. I wish they were to buff Unbreakable because its plain ass and useless at this point.
You still haven't explained how a move that's neutral on hit gets punished? I'm truly curiousWhat I'm wondering is if NRS was only refering to grandmaster when they said "he is getting no buffs."
I could agree with thisEX Clone needs to have the same start up as normal clone to ensure that it always comes out as a special cancel. Next, EX Clone should remain on block and not disappear.
This is FAIR.
Incorrect as of 2 patches ago, B122 sun choke connects on everyone nowMake him shiny and icey like X-Men Iceman when frost aura activated
That's the only buff he needs
Kotal kahn
Sun God Choke can't be combo ended with majority of male cast off of b122
he doesn't meant that. of course you won't get punished if you block. but it's kinda stupid imo that you have to block after a combo ender against certain characters.You still haven't explained how a move that's neutral on hit gets punished? I'm truly curious
ex Ice clone two hits? [Wigy expresses displeasure] As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block [...] Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that
I'm sorry, but I gotta agree with Wigy (except for the rudeness, which I've edited out to make it clear I'm not agreeing with any of that or think that it was was really necessary at all just in response to some suggestions).Ex hammer being +on block i don't agree with. Free wakeup combo starter for days.
I don't play him enough to comment on the rest. I think a +15 standing reset is a bit much. Basically means you have a vortex..
Exam stress getting to,you're right i shouldn't be rude.I'm sorry, but I gotta agree with Wigy (except for the rudeness, which I've edited out to make it clear I don't agree with any of that or think that it was was really necessary at all just in response to some suggestions).
GM sz is in a good spot right now. Fixing his bugs, so that Clones come out and do their job, should be basically all he needs. At the very least, go from there and see what happens. I disagree that DJT really proved anything in the one match where he outplayed his brother in one match its pretty damn anecdotal, at however I don't think "needs to be able to compete with Tanya and Kung Lao" is a proper measure of a characters viability, fix bugs and I like where he's at.
Ex Hammer doesn't need to be + on block. It's like -9 as is, is armored, beats most other armors, has awesome range, and combo's into 33% everytime midscreen. It's numbers are fine. It doesn't need to be super safe. It is however an important tool for the nuetral game which he NEEDS, it only really needs it's hitbox improved IMO, it's too easy to go straight through it.
He doesn't need a frame advantage at the end of his reset, this is the footsies character, neutral is fine and supports the variations role, he has amazing buttons in the neutral game. Excellent D4, excellent backdash, excellent uppercut, excellent JiP/JiK, great Overhead. The character just needs something else, maybe with a fixed Ex-Hammer, Ice Burst can be replaced for something to help him in the nuetral game or after a reset a bit more. I think Ice Puddle would be perfect tbqh.
I look at as the glass half full, what if B33 was never meant to connect on anyone, and we got lucky with females? It could go either way and none of us know for sure, I just accept it for what it is, we build plenty of meter, have like very little other use for it, and it's fully hitconfirmable anyway, so I just accept this for what it is.@I GOT HANDS summed it up perfectly... GM SZ would be ok if it weren't for the hitbox issues that cause his moves to not come out properly.
I would trade the b33/f33 ice ball connecting on female characters any day for having the regular clone setups in the corner vs females.
Exactly, all it needs! Forget the other requests, just make it consistent!Cryomancer does need his EX hammer to have a bigger hitbox so jumping in characters get hit by it also Air Hammer could use a tweak to make it useful somehow.
Yup. Standing reset with frame advantages? That's just overdoing it. One of Kenjutsus best tools is doing exactly this, and he has to spend a meter to do it and combo for significantly less damage than Cryo does (28%/26% OH/Low), and the difference in execution is comparing one of the easiest combos in the game (Cryo) with one of the hardest (Kenjutsu), all for a standing reset left at +15. Cryo doing at the end of every string? Cmon son, it's a standing reset already meaning they don't get a wake up, and SZ has a BIG advantage on so many characters immediately after it, frame advantage here is too much. He just needs Ice Burst replaced with some sort of a tool to help him deal with the characters who get even bigger advantage than he does from the standing reset. Raidens and F/T's NJPs are a good example of this, so maybe something a bit better. Ice Puddle would catch NJPs on landing, and help slow down characters like Kotal in the neutral game without being anywhere near as good as Clone. I genuinely think it's the tool he needs.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Cryo's ender should stay neutral or slightly plus having a huge frame advantage on it would make it too good honestly.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]I look at as the glass half full, what if B33 was never meant to connect on anyone, and we got lucky with females? It could go either way and none of us know for sure, I just accept it for what it is, we build plenty of meter, have like very little other use for it, and it's fully hitconfirmable anyway, so I just accept this for what it is.
Because at this stage, it REALLY wouldn't surprise me if NRS "fixed" B33~snowballs hitbox by making it not string on ANYONE without ex-ing it. It would certainly be the easier fix as well. This is the only thing I'm gunna say on the matter because I wish people would stop drawing attention to it, do you guys really wanna roll the dice with NRS on this one? Cause I feel pretty confident that if we DO draw NRS's attention to this and they decide it needs to be made consistent across characters, that it's probably not gonna go the way anyone is hoping....
Exactly, all it needs! Forget the other requests, just make it consistent!
Yup. Standing reset with frame advantages? That's just overdoing it. One of Kenjutsus best tools is doing exactly this, and he has to spend a meter to do it and combo for significantly less damage than Cryo does (28%/26% OH/Low), and the difference in execution is comparing one of the easiest combos in the game (Cryo) with one of the hardest (Kenjutsu), all for a standing reset left at +15. Cryo doing at the end of every string? Cmon son, it's a standing reset already meaning they don't get a wake up, and SZ has a BIG advantage on so many characters immediately after it, frame advantage here is too much. He just needs Ice Burst replaced with some sort of a tool to help him deal with the characters who get even bigger advantage than he does from the standing reset. Raidens and F/T's NJPs are a good example of this, so maybe something a bit better. Ice Puddle would catch NJPs on landing, and help slow down characters like Kotal in the neutral game without being anywhere near as good as Clone. I genuinely think it's the tool he needs.
See.. you are quick to talk that SZ did something based on winning 1 or 2 matches out of the 30+ matches played as KL and vs his brother where he knows him almost better then his brother knows himself (and in 2 matches where SZ wins and the other where SZ does well). However, you say nothing about the ATL tournament that just past where SZ came out for one game in GF, lost 2 rounds straight and then it was KL for the win to reset and take it..ex Ice clone two hits
Are you mentally retarded?
Half of these suggestions are completely moronic, this is the worst buff thread i've seen on here.
As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block.
But at the same time, all characters have unintended buffs which fuck them up, its a universal problem.
Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that!
But this is the problem SZ always has it. No matter who uses him, people will always ignore when he appears lacking. However, let him even win a MATCH deep into a tournament and people will shout "SEE LOOK THAT THAT" from on top of a mountain.I sincerely hope this is a joke, djt won one match against his brother with sub. This isn't to say djt isn't an amazing player (he is), but it had nothing to do with sub. His sub is good, but it's 99% his fundamentals that won ceo.
anyways, I agree with pretty much all the buffs outside of the 2 hits to break ex clone and honourable mentions. Only other thing I would suggest as others have is some form of cancel for cryo, whether it be a hammer/iceball/new projectile; anything is fine. Just something to actually give him pressure or some form of guessing game.
You're right tom that was a bad example.See.. you are quick to talk that SZ did something based on winning 1 or 2 matches out of the 30+ matches played as KL and vs his brother where he knows him almost better then his brother knows himself (and in 2 matches where SZ wins and the other where SZ does well). However, you say nothing about the ATL tournament that just past where SZ came out for one game in GF, lost 2 rounds straight and then it was KL for the win to reset and take it..
You'll probably say 1 or 2 games where SZ looks out classed doesn't mean much but will use 1 or 2 games as proof that he's fine.
But this is the problem SZ always has it. No matter who uses him, people will always ignore when he appears lacking. However, let him even win a MATCH deep into a tournament and people will shout "SEE LOOK THAT THAT" from on top of a mountain.
a few characters 7-3 him but its only because of the ex clone issue. If ex clone was slowed down to normal clone start up so you could special cancel consistently and remains on block he would be fine. Still would some lose mu's but he'd at least work.You're right tom that was a bad example.
I still think all he needs is bug fixes like a lot of the cast. He has bad matchup here or there but its not mk9 where half the top 8 7-3 him
Well done sir finally someone who isnt an idiothe won one match against his brother who he constantly plays, him playing sub zero had very little to do with it. MIT also won 2 matches in grand finals with reptile, does that now mean he's top 10 too? That is probably the absolute worst example of sub zero being viable, I would rather use just tom's general placing in top 9 at combo breaker/top 32 at ceo/djt at combo breaker.
Just imagine what would happen if Quan Chi's EX Rune randomly did not come out because of something in the game mechanics. Or mournful Kitana's MB glaive at times came up as normal one. Or Sonya's drone will just not appear sometimes or instead of EX hat Kung Lao tossed normal one. Game breaking for Quan Chi, Sonya and Kung Lao mains, no? But with SubZ not being able to cancel into special move constantly is "oh well, no biggie" apparently.Why would it be a bigger issue and resolved quicker if it was another character Tom?? Is there some agenda against sub zero??
Thanks for the reply but I understood all that. The question I was asking and my apologies if I didn't word it correctly was what does NRS and the MK community have against sub?? I feel like they hate him or something. Yet no one says anything about scorpion who IMO is such a cheap and spammy character. Every time I play a scorpion the just troll and spam his teleport and minions. So frustrating.Just imagine what would happen if Quan Chi's EX Rune randomly did not come out because of something in the game mechanics. Or mournful Kitana's MB glaive at times came up as normal one. Or Sonya's drone will just not appear sometimes or instead of EX hat Kung Lao tossed normal one. Game breaking for Quan Chi, Sonya and Kung Lao mains, no? But with SubZ not being able to cancel into special move constantly is "oh well, no biggie" apparently.
Edit: maybe this is how the MKX should be played? Just add factor of randomness for EVERY character, so that everyone has a chance of their specials whiff completely or MB specials come as normal ones from time to time. How swell would that be?
if it was slower would it be safe ? Or would it just face the same issues? And yes it should stay on block i agreeAs i am reinventing how I use SZ, the ex clone not working is KILLING ME! The fact that I cannot come up with ONE reliable way to know this attack will even come out unless I'm far away is ridiculous. SZ needs to be able to use all of his specials and the fact that he cannot reliably even get the move to come out is ridiculous.
EX Clone MUST have slower start up so ensure it always comes out as a special cancel and it should not go away on block. If this was any other character this would be a bigger issue and resolved.