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General/Other - Sub-Zero Thoughts on these Sub-Zero Buffs? (Community feedback please?)

your post indicates you have no clue of cryomancer and how this character works at the moment. but keep posting your nonsense. enlighten us with your gosu wisdom. *sarcasm*
So far what you've been saying is that you want 1 string buffed because certain members of the cast can punish it
IF you knew that then you should be smart enough to not use that ONE string against those characters
Not to mention you want it buffed for a spin and low poke which punishes most of the cast anyways
So by your stupid logic, every other characters main string that can be punished by kung lao spin and kotal kahn poke should be made safe as well
ROFL
NOT ALL MOVES HAVE TO BE EFFECTIVE OR SAFE AGAINST THE WHOLE CAST

I swear this community
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I'll come back with my proposed changes for Cryo in a bit. He doesn't need much, just a bit of shuffling to do his role. I love the nuetral standing reset, it's one of the most unique and awesome things about him. No armoured wake ups, no counter 50/50 into punishes/whatever, nope just high damage strings straight back into the neutral game, but in perfect spacing for a D4 and a B2, as well as arguably the best backdash in the game to support it.


The problem is his lack of a couple of footsie tools, and this is the footsies variation. His improved uppercut is good news, but his ex-hammer is shitty. It's not worth the meter in a successful string as far as damage goes, it can't be used as a mix-up after a blocked low opener because it's so easy to Fuzzy, but that's fine because it's role is the nuetral game (right where he needs it), which it almost does well, slow armoring through even other armours and launching into combo. However, it's so completely free to jumping and cross ups, and anyone with multi hitting armor like Kenshi can really mess it up. So I propose one thing, make the Hammer multi-hit the whole way through its swing animation, solving both problems at once. Get rid of Ice Burst which is now absolutely useless, and change it to something else to help him in his role. Call me wishful but his Ice Puddle would be dope. Tombstone drop teleport could be alright as well. Some sort of frozen projectile like Hammer or Dagger could be useful for decent chip as well.
 

Kanalratte

aka FROSTIE
So far what you've been saying is that you want 1 string buffed because certain members of the cast can punish it
IF you knew that then you should be smart enough to not use that ONE string against those characters
Not to mention you want it buffed for a MB spin which punishes most of the cast anyways and 1 low poke
ROFL
NOT ALL MOVES HAVE TO BE EFFECTIVE OR SAFE AGAINST THE WHOLE CAST
please stop posting. learn cryomancer then come back. until then, don't lecture sub mains and tell them how to play with their character who actually know whats wrong with Sub. but i fear you will continue to enlighten us with your upper BS.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
For Cryomancer I say he should be able to run cancel the Ice Hammer so he can do more block string pressure and 50/50 pressure. This idea came from Scorpion's fireball run cancel strings. His sword attacks need to have a good use like poking or higher damage. They are completely useless aside from his uppercut. This is suppose to be his "offensive" variation yet all he does is F4, 2, 1+2 and MB Hammer. I wish he had Ice shower for this variation to lay more pressure. Maybe have the Shower hit overhead as a projectile but not freeze to create unblockables. This idea is from Quan Chi's bat.

Unbreakable needs to have the Ice Aura input changed to a D, D, 1. It is still easy to input and it allows him to have the Ice Burst. Ice Burst is in 2/3 of his variations and no variation and that makes no sense. Also Ice Barrier does not stop jumping attacks so he needs Ice Burst to anti air. This style is still lacking and I wish he would get back Ice Puddle. If he did get Puddle make it like MK2/UMK3 Puddle where they slip if they don't jump off it. Opponent jumps in, drop Puddle, combo into freeze, combo to corner ender.

Grandmaster is tricky. The Ice Klone collisions need to be fixed because projectiles and jumping attacks connect correctly but not all ground normals. A lot of limbs pass through. This has to do with the hurtbox being behind the hitbox of the characters limb. The Klones collision box also doesn't include the front leg, arm or the head. As far as the go away on block, I feel that needs to leave because it doesn't help ALL characters equally. It mostly makes his bad matchups worse such as Kenshi, Ermac, Scorpion, Raiden. It does help for when he moves in front of the Klone and people try to open him up. But since he is in front of the Klone he can be hit and on hit it goes away. Lastly I'd like an enhanced Klone Toss. Give him an armor when he tosses it, maybe faster startup too. Although I would like it to be Klone Push where the Klone slides across the ground and freezes the opponent on hit/touch, on block a little bit of chip damage. This idea came from the movie 14 Blades where Donnie Yen was pushing the statues around to fight. At :29 seconds.

 
please stop posting. learn cryomancer then come back. until then, don't lecture sub mains and tell them how to play with their character who actually know whats wrong with Sub. but i fear you will continue to enlighten us with your upper BS.
Oh no my character's string gets punished by MB spin and kotal kahn's poke just like more than half the cast
My string should be safe against them because it's safe against other members of the cast
I don't want to limit myself from using a string that's unsafe to certain members of the cast so please make it safe against everyone
Plz NRS

Typical
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
So far what you've been saying is that you want 1 string buffed because certain members of the cast can punish it
IF you knew that then you should be smart enough to not use that ONE string against those characters
Not to mention you want it buffed for a spin and low poke which punishes most of the cast anyways
So by your stupid logic, every other characters main string that can be punished by kung lao spin and kotal kahn poke should be made safe as well
ROFL
NOT ALL MOVES HAVE TO BE EFFECTIVE OR SAFE AGAINST THE WHOLE CAST

I swear this community
Holy fuck you are dumb as a rock.

There is literally no other point to playing Cryomancer, other than the extra damage offered by that ender ender. Aside from that, you are trading Ice Clone for a second armoured launcher in Hammer that is basically just a slightly better Ice Burst with a much worse hitbox, the only role of which, is setting up the ender that you are saying "just don't use". Literally no point, you'd literally be playing as Grandmaster except with no Ice Clone.

Now I'm not saying the ender should be changed, read my post I think it should be built upon. But you clearly have zero experience what so ever in this variation, so perhaps you should just read and learn
 

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
Oh no my character's string gets punished by MB spin and kotal kahn's poke just like more than half the cast
My string should be safe against them because it's safe against other members of the cast
I don't want to limit myself from using a string that's unsafe to certain members of the cast so please make it safe against everyone
Plz NRS

Typical
Well to be fair, a character's main ender being punishable on hit is very stupid. Hell any string being punishable on hit is very stupid. Asking for it to be changed is well within the terms of being reasonable, considering this ender is one of the things you gain in Cryomancer.

It's not really a case of wanting something to be changed instead of adapting as much as it is wanting something to be changed because its current properties are retarded.
 
Holy fuck you are dumb as a rock.

There is literally no other point to playing Cryomancer, other than the extra damage offered by that ender ender. Aside from that, you are trading Ice Clone for a second armoured launcher in Hammer that is basically just a slightly better Ice Burst with a much worse hitbox. Literally no point.

Now I'm not saying the ender should be changed, read my post I think it should be built upon. But you clearly have zero experience what so ever in this variation, so perhaps you should just read and learn
Then should you not use it when it is guaranteed as a punisher or in a combo ender?
If it is punished by certain members of the cast, then why are you using it in an unsafe situation?
If you know that they are going to punish it on block then why are you using it while they are blocking?
I'm not saying don't use it at all against those that can punish it. I'm saying to use it to where you can't get punished

Is your gameplay really relying on throwing it out in the hopes that they let go of the block button or that they don't know the gaps?

Don't we all know there are gaps in this game?
 

Kanalratte

aka FROSTIE
Oh no my character's string gets punished by MB spin and kotal kahn's poke just like more than half the cast
My string should be safe against them because it's safe against other members of the cast
I don't want to limit myself from using a string that's unsafe to certain members of the cast so please make it safe against everyone
Plz NRS

Typical
yeah typical. you again showed us you that you don't know how cryo works at the moment. but i change my mind. Keep posting to show us your supreme idiocy lol
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Then should you not use it when it is guaranteed as a punisher or in a combo ender?
If it is punished by certain members of the cast, then why are you using it in an unsafe situation?
If you know that they are going to punish it on block then why are you using it while they are blocking?
I'm not saying don't use it at all against those that can punish it. I'm saying to use it to where you can't get punished

Is your gameplay really relying on throwing it out in the hopes that they let go of the block button?
You actually have no clue.

The issue he had with it was nothing to do with getting it to connect, it's not that it's unsafe on block. It's an ENDER, we combo into it off our 50/50. The issue he was having is that afterwards, it ends in a standing reset, with zero frame advantage, and he feels like Kotal and the like get to immediately wreck him in return for him landing a successful string anywhere.

You would know this if you had been reading properly. Or if you knew actually anything AT ALL about the character. These are two things you should probably tick off the checklist before coming in a thread trying to school people and sound all intelligent and exasperated at the community n shit. Cause now you just look dumb. I'm not saying I agree with their proposed changes or that this is a major issue, however your logic for them being wrong is just nonsense
 

Wigy

There it is...
ex Ice clone two hits

Are you mentally retarded?

Half of these suggestions are completely moronic, this is the worst buff thread i've seen on here.

As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block.

But at the same time, all characters have unintended buffs which fuck them up, its a universal problem.

Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that!
 

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
There is no way SZ gets ANY positive changes. Meaning that I cant say no changes, but if he were to get any, they would most likely be further nerfs.

Chances of SZ getting any buffs is between a 0%-3% chance and that was a direct quote lol
That's really not good. The characters we beat are bad and will probably only get better. We could be in real trouble by the final version. Maybe if we all keep it loud by the final version they'll see we really are in trouble. To me it speaks volumes that I can win 10 times the matches with my 3 week old kenshi than I can my day 1 main sub zero.
 

zoofs

bless
ex Ice clone two hits

Are you mentally retarded?

Half of these suggestions are completely moronic, this is the worst buff thread i've seen on here.

As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block.

But at the same time, all characters have unintended buffs which fuck them up, its a universal problem.

Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that!
I sincerely hope this is a joke, djt won one match against his brother with sub. This isn't to say djt isn't an amazing player (he is), but it had nothing to do with sub. His sub is good, but it's 99% his fundamentals that won ceo.

anyways, I agree with pretty much all the buffs outside of the 2 hits to break ex clone and honourable mentions. Only other thing I would suggest as others have is some form of cancel for cryo, whether it be a hammer/iceball/new projectile; anything is fine. Just something to actually give him pressure or some form of guessing game.
 

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
ex Ice clone two hits

Are you mentally retarded?

Half of these suggestions are completely moronic, this is the worst buff thread i've seen on here.

As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block.

But at the same time, all characters have unintended buffs which fuck them up, its a universal problem.

Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that!
While many of these buffs are overboard I do believe the character is in trouble. For example cold blooded should be plus because he does struggle for good places to build meter but it doesn't need to be +15. I would say more +10. Guarantee a free poke but nothing more. You can use that to open up your opponent from there depending on what they choose to respect /not respect
 

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
Re-reading over the OP, I missed the universal change somehow. B33 into iceball while midscreen is completely unnecessary. Sub Zero rarely needs meter for combos outside of this unless it's EX hammer in Cryomancer, so needing to spend a bar for a midscreen combo really isn't a big deal.
 
Suggestions: Cryomancer/ Give the ice dagger combo the ability to Meter Burn the daggers, this can do 1 of 2 things. (1.) Takes away opponent's stamina meter fully so that their movement options and combo break options are gone for "X" amount of time. (2.) Takes away the opponents ability to jump for "X" amount of seconds. Grandmaster/ Give the ability to Meter Burn the Ice Clone after tossing it to freeze the opponent on hit. Let Ice Clone be performed in the air. But the biggest new idea would be, Allow Sub Zero to perform the Ice Clone move a second time while its on screen giving him the ability to teleport himself into clone's location and effectively switch places and create a new clone from the position he teleported from, this could also be done from the air effectively placing a clone in the air after teleporting. This would be a MeterBurned move of course. Unbreakable/ Make Ice parry freeze ALL physical based attacks. Jump ins included. Allow him to Meter Burn it if necessary for Jump Ins, but for the love of all mankind make the parry Anti Air somehow.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
UNBREAKABLE:

PARRY:
When sub zero parries a projectile, he should recover instantly, and he should get the chip of meter build for blocking the projectile while getting the chip of meter for using the parry, this would negate opponents out building his meter by one chip each time.

B12, F4, F42 should extend combos when cancelled into Aura, and also plus on block (+9). Not enough for a b2 or b3, but f4.

MB Aura should also give him a damage buff, around 5-7%.

UNIVERSAL:
Mk9 212 and 214 string, he needs a push back string, something that he can't be punished for without meter not in GM.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I sincerely hope this is a joke, djt won one match against his brother with sub. This isn't to say djt isn't an amazing player (he is), but it had nothing to do with sub. His sub is good, but it's 99% his fundamentals that won ceo.

anyways, I agree with pretty much all the buffs outside of the 2 hits to break ex clone and honourable mentions. Only other thing I would suggest as others have is some form of cancel for cryo, whether it be a hammer/iceball/new projectile; anything is fine. Just something to actually give him pressure or some form of guessing game.
Just cause djt is good doesn't mean it doesn't count. He won the GRAND FINAL against TANYA with him. His other variations may need buffs but grandmaster just needs fixes. 3/4 of the cast only have one good variation
 

zoofs

bless
Just cause djt is good doesn't mean it doesn't count. He won the GRAND FINAL against TANYA with him. His other variations may need buffs but grandmaster just needs fixes. 3/4 of the cast only have one good variation
he won one match against his brother who he constantly plays, him playing sub zero had very little to do with it. MIT also won 2 matches in grand finals with reptile, does that now mean he's top 10 too? That is probably the absolute worst example of sub zero being viable, I would rather use just tom's general placing in top 9 at combo breaker/top 32 at ceo/djt at combo breaker.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Suggestions: Cryomancer/ Give the ice dagger combo the ability to Meter Burn the daggers, this can do 1 of 2 things. (1.) Takes away opponent's stamina meter fully so that their movement options and combo break options are gone for "X" amount of time. (2.) Takes away the opponents ability to jump for "X" amount of seconds. Grandmaster/ Give the ability to Meter Burn the Ice Clone after tossing it to freeze the opponent on hit. Let Ice Clone be performed in the air. But the biggest new idea would be, Allow Sub Zero to perform the Ice Clone move a second time while its on screen giving him the ability to teleport himself into clone's location and effectively switch places and create a new clone from the position he teleported from, this could also be done from the air effectively placing a clone in the air after teleporting. This would be a MeterBurned move of course. Unbreakable/ Make Ice parry freeze ALL physical based attacks. Jump ins included. Allow him to Meter Burn it if necessary for Jump Ins, but for the love of all mankind make the parry Anti Air somehow.
I'll have what you're smoking
 

Wigy

There it is...
he won one match against his brother who he constantly plays, him playing sub zero had very little to do with it. MIT also won 2 matches in grand finals with reptile, does that now mean he's top 10 too? That is probably the absolute worst example of sub zero being viable, I would rather use just tom's general placing in top 9 at combo breaker/top 32 at ceo/djt at combo breaker.
Never said top 10, i said tournament viable. He beat an awesome player who knows how his sub plays in supposedly a 7-3 matchup

His other varitations are ass though.