General/Other - Sub-Zero Thoughts on these Sub-Zero Buffs? (Community feedback please?)

[brizzle]

Then should you not use it when it is guaranteed as a punisher or in a combo ender?
If it is punished by certain members of the cast, then why are you using it in an unsafe situation?
If you know that they are going to punish it on block then why are you using it while they are blocking?
I'm not saying don't use it at all against those that can punish it. I'm saying to use it to where you can't get punished

Is your gameplay really relying on throwing it out in the hopes that they let go of the block button or that they don't know the gaps?

Don't we all know there are gaps in this game?

I'll put what your saying into Displacer raiden and see if you think it makes sense. "If you know that the only thing this variation has is the teleport and is unsafe, then shouldn't you just not use it?" So how does that sound now? Raidens teleport variation has the most punishable teleport in the game, and instead of asking for buffs we should just "not use it"?

My point being is if the whole reason to use a variation is punishable or not good, than yes it needs buffed and shouldn't just be not used.

 

[protools27]

Suggestions: Cryomancer/ Give the ice dagger combo the ability to Meter Burn the daggers, this can do 1 of 2 things. (1.) Takes away opponent's stamina meter fully so that their movement options and combo break options are gone for "X" amount of time. (2.) Takes away the opponents ability to jump for "X" amount of seconds. Grandmaster/ Give the ability to Meter Burn the Ice Clone after tossing it to freeze the opponent on hit. Let Ice Clone be performed in the air. But the biggest new idea would be, Allow Sub Zero to perform the Ice Clone move a second time while its on screen giving him the ability to teleport himself into clone's location and effectively switch places and create a new clone from the position he teleported from, this could also be done from the air effectively placing a clone in the air after teleporting. This would be a MeterBurned move of course. Unbreakable/ Make Ice parry freeze ALL physical based attacks. Jump ins included. Allow him to Meter Burn it if necessary for Jump Ins, but for the love of all mankind make the parry Anti Air somehow.

Lmfao I... I don't even know what to say about this. Comedy in its purest form

 

[protools27]

But the biggest new idea would be, Allow Sub Zero to perform the Ice Clone move a second time while its on screen giving him the ability to teleport himself into clone's location and effectively switch places and create a new clone from the position he teleported from, this could also be done from the air effectively placing a clone in the air after teleporting. This would be a MeterBurned move of course.

This made me laugh for about 10 minutes.

 

[Oh My Zod]

But its not comedic to have a DLC character in Tanya TP non stop everywhere until you whiff an attack that leads to 30-40% damage? I also thought its a buff thread btw. I mean lets get real here, the guy stabs you with ice daggers and breaks em off in you. No way should someones movement speed be hindered at all after that ? Just like i'm sure its dumb that Venomous Dvorah leaves a poison DoT after connecting attacks? Also, the guy creates an ice shield around himself that freezes people who touch it.... but man if youre in the air jumping at him the move is just a saran wrap t shirt. I have an imagination, what can I say. But the parry, daggers , and ice clone freezing on hit if you MB arent crazy.

 

[DarksydeDash]

ex Ice clone two hits

Are you mentally retarded?

Half of these suggestions are completely moronic, this is the worst buff thread i've seen on here.

As much as i HATE subzero i would agree all bug fixes should be sorted, which includes being able to punch through it and clone not coming out on block.

But at the same time, all characters have unintended buffs which fuck them up, its a universal problem.

Thats a buff enough. Anything else is overkill, he can more than compete at the high level. DJT proved that!

Clearly you know nothing about his other variations. DJT proved nothing, except grandmaster sub zero is still the only viable variation. Also the 2 hits on the ice clone was an alternative that required meter since he can't cancel the clone on hit/block as he is supposed to do. Also Tanya bodies Sub, two words: Dragon. Naginata.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Anyone else notice that the buffs mostly affect Cryomancer and Unbreakable? No? Read again. Grandmaster just needs some tweaks and bug fixes in all honesty. But the one buff I think he desperately needs is the clone and EX clone coming out on hit/block consistently. For god's sake he has to spend a bar on clone to stay safe but he can't even do that. Two hits on EX clone as an alternative isn't as bad as you might think since he is spending a bar to do so. I like to think of it as Superman's trait because that took away the armor option in the corner for a small amount of time. Also lots of the cast have multiple hitting wakeups; Kenshi, D'vorah, Goro, Mileena, Tanya, Kung Jin, Jax, Liu Kang, Sonya, Shinnok, Takeda, etc. If that wasn't enough lots of characters also have teleports to completely ignore the clone. But whatever, opinions are opinions.

 

[aieches]

There is no way SZ gets ANY positive changes. Meaning that I cant say no changes, but if he were to get any, they would most likely be further nerfs.

Chances of SZ getting any buffs is between a 0%-3% chance and that was a direct quote lol

Spoiler: figures...

bffs

 

[Wigy]

Clearly you know nothing about his other variations. DJT proved nothing, except grandmaster sub zero is still the only viable variation. Also the 2 hits on the ice clone was an alternative that required meter since he can't cancel the clone on hit/block as he is supposed to do. Also Tanya bodies Sub, two words: Dragon. Naginata.

Half the cast gets completely bodied by tanya and 3/4 of the cast have only one good variation, boo fucking hoo.

Ex hammer being +on block i don't agree with. Free wakeup combo starter for days.

I don't play him enough to comment on the rest. I think a +15 standing reset is a bit much. Basically means you have a vortex..

 

[llabslb]

I think having ice burst safe on block would be a good idea. All the SZ haters won't bitch about it much because the ice clone won't be touched. Kung Lao has got his orbiting hat, give us ice burst!

 

[Ze Dingo]

I'm quite ok with Sub Zero as he is now.

As long as they don't go and nerf him again, I'm good.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Half the cast gets completely bodied by tanya and 3/4 of the cast have only one good variation, boo fucking hoo.

Half your suggestions were stupid, ex clone having two hits would be ridiculous. It already stays out for longer.

He needs bug fixes in gm, and some light buffs elsewhere, sure as hell not the ones you suggested.

I never said the other two variations were viable, im in agreement over that but your suggestions are hella stupid.

Then please tell me why I should spend meter on EX clone in grandmaster if I can't use it on the majority of strings. Tell me why I should be punished for finishing a combo in Cryomancer. And ppplleeasseee tell me why Unbreakable which meant to be played defensively to counter zoning gets zoned out for using specials specific to that variation. Compared to what has been suggested in the past, these buffs are fairly reasonable because they are trying to boost the viability of his variations, you know, the matchup changer of the game?

 

[Wigy]

Then please tell me why I should spend meter on EX clone in grandmaster if I can't use it on the majority of strings. Tell me why I should be punished for finishing a combo in Cryomancer. And ppplleeasseee tell me why Unbreakable which meant to be played defensively to counter zoning gets zoned out for using specials specific to that variation. Compared to what has been suggested in the past, these buffs are fairly reasonable because they are trying to boost the viability of his variations, you know, the matchup changer of the game?

If you read my edit you can see my problems with your proposed buffs. Also you quoted the wrong person somehow?

Also REAAAD WHAT IVE SAAAAID. GM needs bug fixes i completely agree.

Can't really comment on unbreakable.

 

[darthdragonking]

i hate it that most of the characters has an advantge over me when i use sub-zero thats why i rely on tanya and jason and another thing that sucks cuz every one can do a 40% combo where sub can only do a 25 % damge but how ever i also noticed when i have them in a corner when i create ice clone and do back 2 twice then forword 4 2 then ice explosion it does massive damge im going to practice some combos today and ad a video on the sub-zero combo thread if anyone cares to show the combo im talking about

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Everyone calling the Ice clone stuff a bug is wrong.

it is working as designed.

The issue is that they were too lazy to add the necessary push back on block to create space for the clones (which seems to really be the case here).

The other two variations just seem not done.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Half the cast gets completely bodied by tanya and 3/4 of the cast have only one good variation, boo fucking hoo.

Ex hammer being +on block i don't agree with. Free wakeup combo starter for days.

I don't play him enough to comment on the rest. I think a +15 standing reset is a bit much. Basically means you have a vortex..

Cryomancer has no way to build meter like grandmaster or unbreakable so if he spends a bar it should be worth while. Not to mention the hammer is reactable as well as has a gap to counter armor and at plus 6 can be backdashed. Don't even get me started on the whiff recovery of this move. He needs pressure to build meter because that is something he can't do. At plus 15 after cold blooded he does not have a vortex because you can back dash and armor out of. His overhead is 18 frames and his low is 13. Not to to mention he has nothing safe to cancel into. Cryo definitely needs at least plus 10 on hit so the opponent can't do what they what when they want.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

OMFG... this shit still??

DJT winning vs MIT in ONE MATCH with GM Sub Zero doesn't prove that anything is or isn't viable or that something is or isn't a counterpick to tanya.

He was locked into the sub zero choice once he beat MIT's reptile. If it leans toward anything it's that GM Sub Zero is a counter to reptile. lol

Like, how are ppl this stupid?

 

[protools27]

Then please tell me why I should spend meter on EX clone in grandmaster if I can't use it on the majority of strings. Tell me why I should be punished for finishing a combo in Cryomancer. And ppplleeasseee tell me why Unbreakable which meant to be played defensively to counter zoning gets zoned out for using specials specific to that variation. Compared to what has been suggested in the past, these buffs are fairly reasonable because they are trying to boost the viability of his variations, you know, the matchup changer of the game?

If the move is neutral how do you get punished? I honestly don't know those match ups.

 

[DarksydeDash]

If the move is neutral how do you get punished? I honestly don't know those match ups.

Punished for making a move thats how.

 

[protools27]

Punished for making a move thats how.

So don't move? Punish with armor yourself? Sry I'm not following.

 

[RVB]

Here's my list of fixes/buffs:

Grandmaster

Fix hitboxes so the klone/EX klone comes out properly on hit/block
Fix hitboxes so characters can no longer jab through the klone.
Fix hitboxes so f33/b33 needs an EX Ice ball follow up to continue the combo on all the roster regardless of male or female characters.
Fix the hitboxes so the klone can be set safely in the corner against all the roster regardless of male or female characters.

This is about it really I'm excluding getting klone to stay on block because that will not happen and according to @Tom Brady most likely SZ will not get any of the above either.

I don't play the other 2 variations enough to give you guys a full list but for Cryomancer I would suggest the Hammer and EX hammer to be able to hit opponents that are jumping in on you.
For unbreakable I'd make the ice shield parry jump ins as well.
Discuss away.

 

[Wigy]

OMFG... this shit still??

DJT winning vs MIT in ONE MATCH with GM Sub Zero doesn't prove that anything is or isn't viable or that something is or isn't a counterpick to tanya.

He was locked into the sub zero choice once he beat MIT's reptile. If it leans toward anything it's that GM Sub Zero is a counter to reptile. lol

Like, how are ppl this stupid?

Not a good example but first one that popped into my head. I definitely think GM is tourney viable though. Chill out there.

 

[DarksydeDash]

What I'm wondering is if NRS was only refering to grandmaster when they said "he is getting no buffs."

 

[WayoftheFist]

Then please tell me why I should spend meter on EX clone in grandmaster if I can't use it on the majority of strings. Tell me why I should be punished for finishing a combo in Cryomancer. And ppplleeasseee tell me why Unbreakable which meant to be played defensively to counter zoning gets zoned out for using specials specific to that variation. Compared to what has been suggested in the past, these buffs are fairly reasonable because they are trying to boost the viability of his variations, you know, the matchup changer of the game?

Why did this quote and tag me as the poster when that isn't my post?

 

[DarksydeDash]

Why did this quote and tag me as the poster when that isn't my post?

I have no clue.

 

[Houndovhell]

I would love for this to happen.. even though its probably not. NRS hates SZ and its very noticeable cryo would easily be the best variation if he even gained +4 on F42Throw, and a way to cancel ice ball/hammer for pressure. I would never touch grandmaster again if he gained that stuff. Too bad were probably stuck with what we have now.