I expect adults to have their nerves under control and to debate with manners. If you can't appreciate SZs footsies then don't. Dispute what I or whoever says would be what this Forum is all about, but I understand that
is the easy way out. But don't worry, we quite obviously don't share the same approach so it would be all kindergarden again after a few Posts.
That is the variations main combo ender, it's like telling Cage "don't use nut punch" the JC players are gonna look at you like your crazy. Honestly clone going away on block is annoying but I'd personally would be ok with it IF the clone timer reset after it went away on its own again. But he should have kept either or not lose both, or kept both. The EX Clone needs to be fixed and I'd personally like to see B12 be 0 to +2 on block. Mostly cause it's a universal string and would do wonders for all of his variations. Other than that he is fine for the most part, and ice parry NEEDS to parry jump ins, in fact all parrys NEED to parry jump ins. Considering how strong the air is in the game, it was foolish to take that out, I honestly don't know any modern FG where parrys don't parry jump ins except MKX. And the recovery from parry needs to be toned down. You know there is something wrong when batmans parry recovers faster than yours. And EX parry needs to be a true wake up, that or frost bomb needs to be a universal move.
Except that wasn't the argument you were making at all. If you were to make the statement "not all characters need 50/50s to compete, just look at Kung Lao" you'd be right, but it would have absolutely no relevance to Sub Zero. He's got a completely different toolset, and the argument you made was that because Kung Lao doesn't need a 50/50 that SZ doesn't either, which is, absolutely retarded. No two ways here.
Huh? No, that's you deliberately Strawmanning my argument. I didn't say a single thing about footsies, look at what that is in response to, I'm saying that while everyone in here is capable of having a reasonable discussion, you have no logic, just anecdotes, lack of character knowledge, and unwillingness to accept when you are wrong, as the driving force behind your perspective.
Test? You mean whatever score you decide to say you got, vs whatever score he decides to say he got? The point is that this is a retarded way to try prove your point, we know what human reaction speeds are on average its science.
It's only kind of unnecessary, most characters and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong get to use their low starter meterless in the this game, so outside of the immediate backlash that going to ensue being "But GM is fucking stupid" what reason would him not being able to combo off of this meterless would be?
Still insults, but at least a few arguments. You're improving, i like that.
Some things i see people asking here are kinda nonsense but don't hesitate to cry. Kitana players still cry and they receive like 20 buffs per patch lol
That is true some of the things suggested are not really viable like f42 1+3 to be heavily plus on block, I personally don't think that is a good idea cuz it would be over powered. Having that ender be slightly plus or stay neutral would be way better.
The combo ender in cyro doesn't get punished tho, the OP was just spilling BS
Well that much is true it doesn't get punished, but if I use my string ender, why do I need to be in a mix up? I HIT YOU, not the other way around, honestly the string ender being like +5-8 on hit is not that bad. Just enough to eliminate back dashing and mashing, but not enough to to negate armor.
your not in a mix up, your at neutral. you could make the case that it could be +3 like cassies regular nutpunch, but the idea that subzero is somehow at disadvantage by using the combo ender is false.
It is indeed a mix up/mind game. A mix up by definition is a guess. If I end my string, and then I have to guess weather or not, your going to jump away, back dash, mash a faster poke, armor out of my incoming pressure due to the fact that I hit you, then I guess I don't what I'm talking about. Idk maybe that's just me but I don't think you should have that many options when I wasted my time to reset you standing. You know when you MB grab you have frame advantage, I'm not sure how much but I know that if you get reset by it you should be blocking or armoring. Why should it not be the same for my own standing reset. Even Cassie's regular nut punch she be the same as JCs I'm still at a loss for why you can backdash after she does it.
There are other benefits to a standing reset then frame advantage, as you've taken away your opponents option to wake up/delay wake up. The reason JC nut punch is as plus as it is is because he doesn't have a true low starter, he's a pressure character, so his nut punch provides enough advantage to continue his pressure. Your basically asking to not have to think after you standing reset someone. Fighting games are about knowing you and your opponents options, and conditioning them to behave how you want them too in certain situations.
But THAT is the point of Cryomancer, to pressure and get damage. That is supposed to be his aggressive rush down variation. Why give us the ender if it means nothing, yes we take away out opponents wake up option but it not like they are in a position to have to respect out next option while we ourselves are in a position to have to respect their next option. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a why out, I think you should be able to armor out but if I reset you standing, you shouldn't have 4 different and completely viable options out of said situations. I'm not asking to not have to think, I'm asking for you not to be able toget away for free when you get hit.
If you were going to make the ender have more advantage, I think the damage should be scaled, you already nullified their wake-up potential but I think it's fair for them to have options if they just ate 40% (granted off a risky launcher). Not a huge amount, but I think if the move were to grant +5 or +6 frames of advantage than his BNB damage with that ender should probably fall 2-4%. What I have a problem with is Subby's Air Hammer, the move is useless, but in the corner it restands the opponent. That move should be plus because if it's only implementation is as a combo ender in the corner, we should be rewarded for our trouble.
That's where you are wrong. You are at NEUTRAL. Both characters have to respect each other. Implying that sub zero is somehow in a bad position after doing a standing reset on an opponent is nonsense. Sorry you actually have to think about what you opponent may do next, and punish them accordingly
He doesn't need to parry jump ins, just needs the ex db1 launcher in this variation.
