Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[Carl-L]

But vs a scary rush down character ill end in up ball to send them full screen and make them work to get back to me.

I think against most rush down characters it might be more beneficial to go Cutthroat than Cybernetic. Going back to JC for a second I'd exclusively use Cybernetic because I don't think Cutthroat does well at all against him, but against some of the others I'm starting to believe that it might be a better to combat them by rushing them down instead of zoning them out.

i feel like making the more rush down orientated characters respect Kano as another rush down and 50/50 character is a lot better than making them respect Kano as a zoning character. Then again I play online so the people I face are nowhere near the caliber of players that are in the offline scene so what I said could just be a load of crap

 

[bdizzle2700]

I think against most rush down characters it might be more beneficial to go Cutthroat than Cybernetic. Going back to JC for a second I'd exclusively use Cybernetic because I don't think Cutthroat does well at all against him, but against some of the others I'm starting to believe that it might be a better to combat them by rushing them down instead of zoning them out.

i feel like making the more rush down orientated characters respect Kano as another rush down and 50/50 character is a lot better than making them respect Kano as a zoning character. Then again I play online so the people I face are nowhere near the caliber of players that are in the offline scene so what I said could just be a load of crap

I think it's more style haha, the other day I was playing a Cassie and made him earn his way in. after him eating chip and then blocking right away, sent him full screen and make him do it again.

 

[mrtom]

I play a solid JC very often, he uses A-list and stunt double. Cage's best pressure, for both styles, is his post nut punch mixups. If you get caught by a normal nut punch, do not press anything but block, you can't armor, backdash or jump out of the follow up. After the nut punch the mixup is usually 114 (high high low) string, 11 overhead or throw. I think the best way to get out is block the 11, crouch block and if now low comes armor out to avoid the overhead. Another common cage tactic is after a blocked B24 they'll frame trap with ex nut punch so if he's got meter be careful trying to punish the b24. Also, avoid crouch blocking, he's got no low starters, crouch block on reaction then immediately stand block again. The only real low you need to worry about is the high high low string, everything else is just pokes.

I use cutthroat for this match up but I really think commando is best. High parry will beat all his mixups, so after a nut punch, 11 ex parry is awesome. High parry will beat all his specials so if they try trapping you with ex nut punch after b24, parry that sob and he won't try it again. I'm definitely use commando exclusively on cage if I can stop screwing up the command throw input, I hate that thing online. For now I go cutthroat because I want to dish out the damage and you can destroy him in the corner if he's got no meter with b12 xx db1, b32 xx db1 mixups. The hit advantage off the knife is enough were he can't try to attack, leaves him standing and forced to guess what's next. I'll only use the full b121 string or ex db1 to finish him off.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Cutthroat Kano is the standard variation Vs Scorpion. This variation can exploit Scorpion's weakness as a character, which are Rushdown pressure, wakeup pressure, and defense in general.

Scorpion out-footsies Kano, especially in Ninjutsu. Kano's best bet is to use his safe mixups in the corner and punish accordingly.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Yeah, CT and Commando don't seem to fear scorpion too terribly.

 

[Youphemism]

Cutthroat Kano is the standard variation Vs Scorpion. This variation can exploit Scorpion's weakness as a character, which are Rushdown pressure, wakeup pressure, and defense in general.

Scorpion out-footsies Kano, especially in Ninjutsu. Kano's best bet is to use his safe mixups in the corner and punish accordingly.

Holy shit I never thought I'd see so much Scorpion downplay in one post.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Holy shit I never thought I'd see so much Scorpion downplay in one post.

How's he being downplayed?

I never said Kano beats Scorpion because I don't believe he does.

Scorpion has the same weaknesses in all of his variations. Any character with a good rushdown and/or can force him to use his wakeup options gives him trouble.

Stay Free.

 

[Youphemism]

How's he being downplayed?

I never said Kano beats Scorpion because I don't believe he does.

Scorpion has the same weaknesses in all of his variations. Any character with a good rushdown and/or can force him to use his wakeup options gives him trouble.

Stay Free.

Dude, you said one of Scorpion's weaknesses is rushdown pressure. That's one of the things that makes Hellfire so good.

And "stay free"? Really? When you're the one that's wrong? Grow up.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Dude, you said one of Scorpion's weaknesses is rushdown pressure. That's one of the things that makes Hellfire so good.

And "stay free"? Really? When you're the one that's wrong? Grow up.

I don't think he means that it's a weak area of scorpion's play, I think he's saying that that's what Kano has that gives scorpion trouble.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I feel very comfortable fighting Scorpion offline. CT is definitely the variation to play against Scorpion.

 

[Youphemism]

I don't think he means that it's a weak area of scorpion's play, I think he's saying that that's what Kano has that gives scorpion trouble.

Well that's even worse, insinuating Kano has an intimidating pressure game smh...(at least not Cyber anyway)

 

[FlappyDaniel]

of course he doesn't have overwhelming pressure in cyber but his normals pressure is rather good in all 3. He doesn't really have extended pressure but he can keep it and stagger it well enough to incorporate his other tools. CT and Commando definitely have better pressure then cyber though Id say.

 

[kabelfritz]

All of them to be honest i'm kind of baffled by him. I feel somewhat confident against stunt double but A-list and fisticuffs run circles around me. I'm thinking Ex kano ball cancelling might be the way to get out of the pressure and create some breathing room to continue chucking knives but it's late here so i'm too tired to try it out.

if someone just wants to hit you in the face all the time, like Johnny or jax, try commando with the parry.

 

[Youphemism]

of course he doesn't have overwhelming pressure in cyber but his normals pressure is rather good in all 3. He doesn't really have extended pressure but he can keep it and stagger it well enough to incorporate his other tools. CT and Commando definitely have better pressure then cyber though Id say.

Well...he's negative on almost all of his strings/normals, I don't know if I'd call that "overwhelming".

 

[OutworldKeith]

Dude, you said one of Scorpion's weaknesses is rushdown pressure. That's one of the things that makes Hellfire so good.

And "stay free"? Really? When you're the one that's wrong? Grow up.

Hellfire is good when he's doing the rushdown fool. Not when he's on the business end of the fork.... *face palm

Again, stay free.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I feel very comfortable fighting Scorpion offline. CT is definitely the variation to play against Scorpion.

Somebody knows whats up!

Whats your strategy against Scorpion?

I like to bully him into the corner and work my game from there. I'll usually end my combos with cannon ball in the corner because you get the free power-up.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Well that's even worse, insinuating Kano has an intimidating pressure game smh...(at least not Cyber anyway)

Now you're downplaying Kano lol. All of his strings are like -6 or better on block. They don't have to be plus to be good.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yea I've learned the hard way that Cyber is limp against Scorpion. Can't really do much in the MU with Cyber, but Cutt/Comm has options.

I don't know if "rush Scorpion down" is the strategy though lol. As Cutt I prefer whiff punishing, punishing on block, patience, in/out footsies, and corner trapping. Still defensive with burst of offense at times.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Well...he's negative on almost all of his strings/normals, I don't know if I'd call that "overwhelming".

Neither did I. I said it's rather good, which it is.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Neither did I. I said it's rather good, which it is.

What is the "good" pressure?

The staggered block strings mixed up with grabs are a huge bill imo. Gets destroyed by the defensive option selects. Against b1-based stagger string pressure, you can literally hold block while mashing grab and you will grab Kano before he grabs you any time he prematurely ends a string and tries to grab you, due to the fact that Kano is negative on all parts of it.

There are a couple ways Kano can try to blow this up but they aren't that great either. B31 is ok in a vacuum (at least you are +1) but pitiful compared to what other characters have.

Kano has some redeeming qualities but pressure isn't one of them imo.

 

[LEGI0N47]

What is the "good" pressure?

The staggered block strings mixed up with grabs are a huge bill imo. Gets destroyed by the defensive option selects. Against b1-based stagger string pressure, you can literally hold block while mashing grab and you will grab Kano before he grabs you any time he prematurely ends a string and tries to grab you, due to the fact that Kano is negative on all parts of it.

There are a couple ways Kano can try to blow this up but they aren't that great either. B31 is ok in a vacuum (at least you are +1) but pitiful compared to what other characters have.

Kano has some redeeming qualities but pressure isn't one of them imo.

You can always take the risk of trying a parry, especially if they're predictable. One or two of those and people tend to give you that precious amount of time needed to grab or pressure. It's a huge risk, but IMO can pay off.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

It's definitely not anything relative to the pressure heavy hitters in the game, just that you can keep some pressure at neutral is all, it's definitely difficult to keep sustained pressure, since most of that would just likely come from opponent unfamiliarity of the MU, but just staggering his normals and strings along with D4s to try and just catch them blocking. I guess I just like it because his pressure is similar to what I'm used to from SFIV, short strings or single pokes for pressure. It's not oppressive as others, and again is based on whether or not they block low, if they block low I should theoretically get free tick throws, and if they block high I can poke to death or start with B31. He has pressure it's just not 1 string over and over like other characters. B1 is not as good a tool by itself anymore, you have to use all of his strings and pokes, which have pretty good frame data, to get people blocking. Idk, I play him pretty pressure heavy but I'm sure I'm getting away with some punishable stuff still.

 

[Youphemism]

Hellfire is good when he's doing the rushdown fool. Not when he's on the business end of the fork.... *face palm

Again, stay free.

Not my fault you worded your sentence ambiguously, make your points clearer. You said one of his weaknesses was rushdown pressure, that could've meant either Scorpion has weak rushdown pressure or one of the things he finds hard to deal with is rushdown pressure.

Lol you can't even make a convincing point because you're too busy calling me "free" meanwhile you're sitting there not going out to tournaments or, if you are, not doing anything at them. YOU stay free sir, and stay free to Kano "pressure".

Now you're downplaying Kano lol. All of his strings are like -6 or better on block. They don't have to be plus to be good.

If he's negative on almost all of his strings then how is it good pressure? You get to do your attacks at that point, it's not downplaying Kano at all. Jesus...

Also you play Scorpion, what gives you the right to tell Kano mains how he plays?

 

[OutworldKeith]

Not my fault you worded your sentence ambiguously, make your points clearer. You said one of his weaknesses was rushdown pressure, that could've meant either Scorpion has weak rushdown pressure or one of the things he finds hard to deal with is rushdown pressure.

Lol you can't even make a convincing point because you're too busy calling me "free" meanwhile you're sitting there not going out to tournaments or, if you are, not doing anything at them. YOU stay free sir, and stay free to Kano "pressure".

If he's negative on almost all of his strings then how is it good pressure? You get to do your attacks at that point, it's not downplaying Kano at all. Jesus...

Also you play Scorpion, what gives you the right to tell Kano mains how he plays?

The other guys understood.....

I have a career. Kinda hard to get free time.

I'm not even gonna explain this one.....

 

[Youphemism]

The other guys understood.....

I have a career. Kinda hard to get free time.

I'm not even gonna explain this one.....

One guy understood, and you don't know that he didn't read it wrong at first too. He could've read it like I did then realised what you meant so let's not make assumptions here. But this is irrelevant to the point about Kano, which is who this thread is about.

You can't get one weekend off? I highly doubt that but whatever.

You're not going to explain it because you can't. If the opponent is negative it is then your turn to press buttons, it's not like Scorpion doesn't have a normal faster than 10 frames. It's simple footsies but you must not get that since you think Kano's pressure is so good.

Bottom line is you don't play the character so don't come in here pretending you know him better than us. It may well be that Cutthroat is the best variation against Scorpion but it's still not easy since Scorpion has better rushdown and mixups than Kano does (in general).